Roadworks and Temp speed limits - oversight
Discussion
Hopefully somebody works for Highways and might be able to advise;
Who oversees lane closures and temp speed cameras? Do they need any qualifications? Does anybody check whether lane closures are appropriate? Does anybody weigh up the impact on the wider world when deciding how many lanes should be closed off? Does anybody check whether lanes are opened promptly? Does anybody check whether the imposition of temporary speed limits is appropriate?
I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking that lanes are being closed and temp speed limits imposed without any kind of impact assessment. It is exceptionally frustrating.
Who oversees lane closures and temp speed cameras? Do they need any qualifications? Does anybody check whether lane closures are appropriate? Does anybody weigh up the impact on the wider world when deciding how many lanes should be closed off? Does anybody check whether lanes are opened promptly? Does anybody check whether the imposition of temporary speed limits is appropriate?
I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking that lanes are being closed and temp speed limits imposed without any kind of impact assessment. It is exceptionally frustrating.
New law when I'm Kommandant Minister of Transport:
All roadworks on A-Roads are manned 24/7/365 by a team to stop delays in traffic, paid for by utilities.
Red light, but a long line of cars from one direction - override it.
Green light, but no cars - change it to red and ease congestion.
General chaos in surrounding areas from roadworks. Get metal plates lowered until congestion clears.
All roadworks on A-Roads are manned 24/7/365 by a team to stop delays in traffic, paid for by utilities.
Red light, but a long line of cars from one direction - override it.
Green light, but no cars - change it to red and ease congestion.
General chaos in surrounding areas from roadworks. Get metal plates lowered until congestion clears.
I close motorways for resurfacing works. Its a hot topic at the moment, not least due to a police chase coming through a full closure, and a roadworker being killed by an errant van in a lane closure recently. Most nights we have incidents where the travelling public cannot or do not want to stay away from the cones. If you think that the temp speed limit is a pain, wait until you have to do traffic counts to decide whether you can close a lane at the start of a short night shift where quite often the whole job gets abandoned at significant cost because we can't start work until its too late to finish.
s55shh - they're doing roadworks on Simister Island at the moment (North Manchester where the M60/M62/M66 intersect.
I appreciate the need to temporary 50 limits when work is ongoing but why are the reduced speed limits applied 24/7 ?
And that's the reason behind my question; clearly somebody has decided that for the next few years all the approach motorways need to be reduced to 50mph regardless of the time of day. Does somebody actually review and approve that decision?
I appreciate the need to temporary 50 limits when work is ongoing but why are the reduced speed limits applied 24/7 ?
And that's the reason behind my question; clearly somebody has decided that for the next few years all the approach motorways need to be reduced to 50mph regardless of the time of day. Does somebody actually review and approve that decision?
Countdown said:
I appreciate the need to temporary 50 limits when work is ongoing but why are the reduced speed limits applied 24/7 ?
That will be because if you allowed people to do normal motorway speeds in an area with narrowed lanes, plant, work in progress, and cones it is an absolute total certainty they'd be ploughing into cones, smashing into plant, and ending up shiny side down in holes that have been dug and generally destroying everything and closing the motorway completely.All of these rules about closing lanes on the other carriageway too, what seem excessive closures for small pieces of work, limiting the speed for miles before the roadworks, they're all there because people are stupid dozy inattentive t
ts and have killed workers and caused mayhem over and over again.Nobody wants to be the guy that says "nah, just close the one lane no need to do both" and gets a call later that day to find out some s
tmuncher in a van has killed a worker because he was changing playlists in the roadworks.Countdown said:
s55shh - they're doing roadworks on Simister Island at the moment (North Manchester where the M60/M62/M66 intersect.
I appreciate the need to temporary 50 limits when work is ongoing but why are the reduced speed limits applied 24/7 ?
And that's the reason behind my question; clearly somebody has decided that for the next few years all the approach motorways need to be reduced to 50mph regardless of the time of day. Does somebody actually review and approve that decision?
Lane closures and reduced limits are not only to protect workers.I appreciate the need to temporary 50 limits when work is ongoing but why are the reduced speed limits applied 24/7 ?
And that's the reason behind my question; clearly somebody has decided that for the next few years all the approach motorways need to be reduced to 50mph regardless of the time of day. Does somebody actually review and approve that decision?
I forget the exact wording but it something along the lines of, road network would not be able to sustain a high-speed impact, or words to that effect.
It covers all sorts of things like adverse cambers, removed signs or damaged/removed impact rails amongst other things.
Like S55, I'm a highways engineer who specifies Traffic Management (TM) and the associated actions - so number of lanes closed, speed limits, extents, taper locations, etc.
Yes the impact is very much considered. Too much TM, and over-onerous TM, will water down the importance - people get bored of driving for mile after mile and seeing nobody working, so Contractors are encouraged to ensure they have works going on as often as possible. This isn't always possible - sometimes concrete or resin needs to cure for several days before it can be covered (or water supply pipes need to be chlorinated etc - road works are a broad church and aren't just to do with installing a sign, or fixing some barriers).
50mph is sort of a "magic limit". It means everyone, even trucks, can manage the maximum permitted speed, which greatly reduces lane changing, overtaking, jockeying for position, which I'm sure you can appreciate makes the road safer. It also helps with flow - ghost queues that happen on 70mph roads are almost entirely eliminated.
Sometimes safety fence isn't reinstated, and the regulations say that you cannot have speeds of over 50mph between opposing flows if the central reserve is less than 5m, or there are unprotected signs, trees, embankments, structures etc.
The stopping sight distance (so visibility requirements for hazards - the back of queues, or carriageway obstructions, or lane drops etc) at 50mph is nearly half that of 70mph.
Legal changes (closures, speed limits, etc) will be looked at and any application for enforceable changes, such as speed reduction will be carried out via a legal TTRO process, which will be advertised and objections are permitted. The TTRO will need to comply with the policy of whichever authority it is being applied on behalf of. If it is NOT within policy (or against guidance) then it will need a complicated and serious political approval process by a local cabinet member with responsibility for highways (for example). It is not done lightly, and TTROs are very regularly rejected for this reason. It is not "Dave says reduce the lanes for 2 years for a laugh".
If you're really that interested, read TSM Chapter 8 Part 1.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7...
Yes the impact is very much considered. Too much TM, and over-onerous TM, will water down the importance - people get bored of driving for mile after mile and seeing nobody working, so Contractors are encouraged to ensure they have works going on as often as possible. This isn't always possible - sometimes concrete or resin needs to cure for several days before it can be covered (or water supply pipes need to be chlorinated etc - road works are a broad church and aren't just to do with installing a sign, or fixing some barriers).
50mph is sort of a "magic limit". It means everyone, even trucks, can manage the maximum permitted speed, which greatly reduces lane changing, overtaking, jockeying for position, which I'm sure you can appreciate makes the road safer. It also helps with flow - ghost queues that happen on 70mph roads are almost entirely eliminated.
Sometimes safety fence isn't reinstated, and the regulations say that you cannot have speeds of over 50mph between opposing flows if the central reserve is less than 5m, or there are unprotected signs, trees, embankments, structures etc.
The stopping sight distance (so visibility requirements for hazards - the back of queues, or carriageway obstructions, or lane drops etc) at 50mph is nearly half that of 70mph.
Legal changes (closures, speed limits, etc) will be looked at and any application for enforceable changes, such as speed reduction will be carried out via a legal TTRO process, which will be advertised and objections are permitted. The TTRO will need to comply with the policy of whichever authority it is being applied on behalf of. If it is NOT within policy (or against guidance) then it will need a complicated and serious political approval process by a local cabinet member with responsibility for highways (for example). It is not done lightly, and TTROs are very regularly rejected for this reason. It is not "Dave says reduce the lanes for 2 years for a laugh".
If you're really that interested, read TSM Chapter 8 Part 1.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7...
GeniusOfLove said:
All of these rules about closing lanes on the other carriageway too, what seem excessive closures for small pieces of work, limiting the speed for miles before the roadworks, they're all there because people are stupid dozy inattentive tts and have killed workers and caused mayhem over and over again.
Yep.ts and have killed workers and caused mayhem over and over again.The start point of a lane closure is usually very tightly controlled. You need visibility to the taper, and the signs, then any lane switching space plus buffer zones. You don't want any queues to block junctions further back. You don't want tapers at "event sections" (laybys, slip roads etc) for obvious reasons. Most authorities and national highways authorities have a list of safe taper locations, so there is often quite a long lead-in before works start, to avoid putting tapers on bends etc.
Even with all of this, you will still get a muppet coming through the cones at 3am. And a cone pinging off the front of a car/truck can be lethal to someone working.
GeniusOfLove said:
Countdown said:
I appreciate the need to temporary 50 limits when work is ongoing but why are the reduced speed limits applied 24/7 ?
That will be because if you allowed people to do normal motorway speeds in an area with narrowed lanes, plant, work in progress, and cones it is an absolute total certainty they'd be ploughing into cones, smashing into plant, and ending up shiny side down in holes that have been dug and generally destroying everything and closing the motorway completely.All of these rules about closing lanes on the other carriageway too, what seem excessive closures for small pieces of work, limiting the speed for miles before the roadworks, they're all there because people are stupid dozy inattentive t
ts and have killed workers and caused mayhem over and over again.Nobody wants to be the guy that says "nah, just close the one lane no need to do both" and gets a call later that day to find out some s
tmuncher in a van has killed a worker because he was changing playlists in the roadworks.Now i understand that temporary speed limits are a real pain in the proverbial but i'd rather that than someone who is doing their job gets flattened by someone who probably shouldn't be allowed to drive.
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