London to Germany

[quantum30]

Hi,

Decided to go to Germany (koln)to see friends and do some spirited driving.

couple of questions:

1- Whats the best route to take ?
2- I will be driving a sports car (r8) , would i be ok getting in and out of the ferry ?
3- Other than passport what other documentation would i need ?
4- anything else you can advice would be welcomed.

thanks guys

[dcb]

quantum30 said:

Decided to go to Germany (koln)to see friends and do some spirited driving.

couple of questions:

1- Whats the best route to take ?

E40. Calais, Brugge, Brussels, Liege, Aachen, Koln.

quantum30 said:

2- I will be driving a sports car (r8) , would i be ok getting in and out of the ferry ?

Almost certainly yes. Only some Lambos and some
Ferraris, when driven badly, have trouble.

quantum30 said:

3- Other than passport what other documentation would i need ?

Lots.

Owners document (VR5)
Insurance certificate
Driving licence
MOT if you have one.

These are legal requirements, so don't skimp.

The German coppers will take a very dim view of
your papers not being in order.

quantum30 said:

4- anything else you can advice would be welcomed.

Take it easy and remember that average driving
standards in Europe are much better than in the UK,
so no tailgating, no daydreaming in lane 3 and
certainly no lane hogging otherwise you will
stand out as another clueless tourist.

Lane discipline is strict and for your own health,
look at least twice before changing lanes in Germany.
120 mph is a very common speed and you will be expected
to cope.

[quantum30]

thanks DCD . excellent info .

whats a vr5 form ? never heard of it (sorry i am kind of new in this country)

[LaserTam]

quantum30 said:

thanks DCD . excellent info .

whats a vr5 form ? never heard of it (sorry i am kind of new in this country)

Vehicle Registration Certificate - issued by the DVLA

[quantum30]

LaserTam said:

quantum30 said:

thanks DCD . excellent info .

whats a vr5 form ? never heard of it (sorry i am kind of new in this country)

Vehicle Registration Certificate - issued by the DVLA

is that the samething as V5?

[bennyboydurham]

dcb said:

Lane discipline is strict and for your own health,
look at least twice before changing lanes in Germany.
120 mph is a very common speed and you will be expected
to cope.

+1 on that. I hired a 320i in Cologne a couple of years back and was wringing the nuts off it to try to keep up with the flow. My over-riding memory of Germany was a) the very pretty countryside and b) that next time I visited I needed to hire a 911.

Edited by bennyboydurham on Sunday 4th April 22:53

Edited by bennyboydurham on Sunday 4th April 22:54

[quantum30]

bennyboydurham said:

dcb said:

Lane discipline is strict and for your own health,
look at least twice before changing lanes in Germany.
120 mph is a very common speed and you will be expected
to cope.

+1 on that. I hired a 320i in Cologne a couple of years back and was wringing the nuts off it to try to keep up with the flow. My over-riding memory of Germany was a) the very pretty countryside and b) that next time I visited I needed to hire a 911.

Edited by bennyboydurham on Sunday 4th April 22:53

Edited by bennyboydurham on Sunday 4th April 22:54

Thats what we like to hear
I am sure the R8 can keep up.

[hman]

I did this trip in november from bucks to cologne.

Its a fair drive so take your ipod.

There arent actually a huge amount of de-restriceted bits, and those that are there are (relatively) fairly short when you get to 150ish.

The french drive slowly, the belgians drive badly, the Dutch are aggressive drivers but the germans are (in the main )ok, apart from the tt kid doing about 60 on the bahn who pulled into my lane without indication when I was closing on him at about 155, new trousers please - how we didnt collide is a mystery. I blame divine intervention.

Quite a lot of the bahn is two lane only as well....

[nickwilcock]

Other documents:

1. You must display an 'emission sticker' to drive in most German cities - these can be obtained quickly and efficiently from http://www.tuev-nord.de/en/traffic/Order_form_ENGL... . Valid for the life of the vehicle when registered to you.

2. European Health Insurance Card - see: http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC...

I always use the excellent Norfolk Line service from Dover to Dunkerque. Worth paying the extra for the 1st class upgrade.

Do NOT be tempted to give it the beans in France! As for Belgium, well, the drivers are tail-gating idiots in the main and the Brussels ring road is pretty dire. The Dutch like to take their bikes with them wherever they go, so Cloggy caravans festooned with bikes are a common site. Their truck driving folk like nothing more than a nice long elephant race.....

NEVER flash your headlights at someone who won't pull over to let you past in Germany - it seems that some court case ruled that an accident was caused by someone doing this, so nowadays it's strengsten verboten!

Beware of Borat-the-trucker from some East European state driving his overladen truck with poor brakes after having travelled non-stop from the Black Sea or wherever!

Make sure you comply with the national rules for things such as hi-viz jackets, first aid kit, fire extinguisher, bulb kit etc. And don't get caught with a radar detector in France! You should really adjust your headlamps to the continental dip pattern; Mercedes told me that there is a lever built in to my car's xenons to do this, but I've yet to find it.

Last year, much of the Autobahn system was under repair and the opportunities to cruise quickly were few and far between. http://www.autobahnatlas-online.de/Limitkarte.pdf and http://www.autobahnatlas-online.de/LegendeLimit_e.... will help you to find unrestricted sections - look for the blue roads.

Due to all the Autobahn speed limits caused by roadworks, many German drivers have become lazy, so forget that people do occasionally travel at high speed - failing to use their mirrors and pulling out in front of you is an increasingly common danger. So I found that 150-180 kph is the safest maximum speed unless the road is totally deserted; although I did manage the 'double Castle' (140 mph / 225 kph) at one stage, I wasn't quite brave enough to check out the 250 kph limiter. But the legacy of an Autobahn stone chip became a crack after I got home, necessitating a windscreen change. The helpful people at www.tuev-nord.de did however send me a replacement emission sticker free of charge.

Edited by nickwilcock on Monday 5th April 07:16

[dcb]

nickwilcock said:

2. European Health Insurance Card - see: http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC...

Good idea.

Most of Western Europe has a better health system than
the UK, so don't worry about getting injured there.

nickwilcock said:

Do NOT be tempted to give it the beans in France!

Careful. Some folks idea of going quickly is 100 kph.

French coppers don't seem to start ticketing
until at least 30 kph over the autoroute limit.

nickwilcock said:

the Brussels ring road is pretty dire.

+1

You can use the E19 Calais, Valenciennes, E42, Namur,
Liege road if this is a problem. Watch out near Brussels
for the liquid lunch club about 3pm - they don't really
pay attention.

nickwilcock said:

NEVER flash your headlights at someone who won't pull over to let you past in Germany - it seems that some court case ruled that an accident was caused by someone doing this, so nowadays it's strengsten verboten!

My information is that flashing the main beams is
taken to be impolite. The suggested alternative
is to put the indicator on. I do this now.

Usually, if the lane hogger has has three chances
to pull in and hasn't done so, *then* I usually put the
main beams on. I think I've had to do this about twice
in the last five years.

nickwilcock said:

Make sure you comply with the national rules for things such as hi-viz jackets, first aid kit, fire extinguisher, bulb kit etc. And don't get caught with a radar detector in France!

High Viz jackets should be in the cabin, not in the boot.
Also keep E100 in cash with you at all times - see speeding fines
above.

nickwilcock said:

Last year, much of the Autobahn system was under repair and the opportunities to cruise quickly were few and far between.

The German autobahn system is much bigger than the UK system
(12,200 km versus 3,200 km), *and* about 70% of
the German network is unlimited.

I wouldn't really say that 8,500 km of unlimited autobahn is "few and far between".

The autobahn construction teams are workaholics, though.

nickwilcock said:

many German drivers have become lazy, so forget that people do occasionally travel at high speed

Nope. Any suggestion that a German can't cope with driving will
be met with some very strange looks.

200 kmh is a very very ordinary autobahn speed, that most
two litre cars will do happily all day, and 250 kmh is available
from most three litre cars and so is seen every day.

nickwilcock said:

So I found that 150-180 kph is the safest maximum speed

Your free choice, but I hope you stayed in lane 1 with the lorries,
the caravans and, to be frank, the terminally bewildered when you did this.

Even the grandmothers in their Nissan Micras go faster
than 180 kph, but not much ;->

Free roads for free people !

[hman]

Total unrestricted autobahn on way to cologne is maybe 20-30ish miles (theres a lot of roadworks out there) and 20 miles at 120mph plus is 10- 15 mins, compared to the length of the rest of the journey that is very few and far between.

Thats how it was in November 2009 when I drove this route last anyway.


Remember red line in 3rd 4th 5th then as fast as you can, the sections are that short that if you just do it in 6th by the time you get from 70- 130ish someone will have pulled out in front of you so best to make sure you accelerate as briskly as possible.

A lot of other drivers on the autobahn are crap at judging speed of other vehicles so they will pull out in front of you- frustrating!!!

Just give your brakes the best chance of cooling off, I warped (well uneven deposits anyway) mine on the autobahn by having to hard brake because of people pulling in front of me sooo many times - they also turned a nice shade of mottled blue which has only just worn off.

[blackburn]

Lots on this thread already about German driving, but I'd say that if you are a keen, "thinking" driver, you'll love driving in Germany compared to the U.K.

Simples!

[hman]

blackburn said:

Lots on this thread already about German driving, but I'd say that if you are a keen, "thinking" driver, you'll love driving in Germany compared to the U.K.

Simples!

This is true, although generally in europe the good guys arent massively better than the good guys in the UK.

[Chester Drawers]

I've driven this route regularly and now regularly between Budapest and the UK. Driving in Germany is generally pretty good, excellent lane discipline and a normal high cruising speed are the norm. Don't speed near autobahn junctions/intersections, these are usually limieted to 80/100/120KPH and you don't want to get caught going too fast as there are often police patrols close to junctions. On unlimited stretches of AAutobahns keep your wits about you and watch out for Porsches etc going at very high speed coming up behind you. Driving in Belgium is generally crap with very bad lane discipline and lots of tailgating plus the condition of the roads isn't great with pot holes, badly worn surfaces and in some places undergrowth in the central reservation hangin over the fast lane. Don't get caught speeding in Belgium. In France the driving I've found to be quite good but again, watch out for the Gendarmes, especially close to the coastal areas. In France you will need to have a Hi-Viz vest, warning triangle and first aid kit inside the car NOT in the boot of the car.

[dcb]

hman said:

Total unrestricted autobahn on way to cologne is maybe 20-30ish miles (theres a lot of roadworks out there)

It's about 60km from Cologne, past Aachen, to the NL border,
so it isn't far.

On a bright and sunny Sunday morning about 7am, when all the Germans
are at home sleeping off their hangovers, I've had 235 kph near Frechen,
so if you pick a quiet time, it is possible to go for a Vmax run.

However, 60 km of autobahn isn't much of a taster of the entire network.
I tend to get onto the Cologne ring road and drive downto Frankfurt,
which is about 200 km and a nice run.

Keen drivers keep going past Frankfurt and head downto Munich and
the Alps, or head East from Cologne for the 600km to Berlin ;->

hman said:

Remember red line in 3rd 4th 5th then as fast as you can, the sections are that short that if you just do it in 6th by the time you get from 70- 130ish someone will have pulled out in front of you so best to make sure you accelerate as briskly as possible.

Suggest travel at a quieter time if you want a Vmax run.
See comments above.

[hman]

dcb said:

hman said:

Total unrestricted autobahn on way to cologne is maybe 20-30ish miles (theres a lot of roadworks out there)

It's about 60km from Cologne, past Aachen, to the NL border,
so it isn't far.

On a bright and sunny Sunday morning about 7am, when all the Germans
are at home sleeping off their hangovers, I've had 235 kph near Frechen,
so if you pick a quiet time, it is possible to go for a Vmax run.

However, 60 km of autobahn isn't much of a taster of the entire network.
I tend to get onto the Cologne ring road and drive downto Frankfurt,
which is about 200 km and a nice run.

Keen drivers keep going past Frankfurt and head downto Munich and
the Alps, or head East from Cologne for the 600km to Berlin ;->

hman said:

Remember red line in 3rd 4th 5th then as fast as you can, the sections are that short that if you just do it in 6th by the time you get from 70- 130ish someone will have pulled out in front of you so best to make sure you accelerate as briskly as possible.

Suggest travel at a quieter time if you want a Vmax run.
See comments above.

I'd have thought so, I was travelling to a meeting from the UK so was limited to the time at which I had the meeting.

Still managed 155mph - then rapidly down to 60.

[Hugo a Gogo]

I'd be tempted to go Calais-Lille-Charleroi-Liege-Aachen-Cologne (and all the signs are in French so you don't have to think "where did Liege go? and what the hell is Luik?")

slightly longer, but then you avoid the Brussels ring, use the quieter southern Belgian roads and avoid Holland altogether

surface on the belgian bits is absolutely crap though, terrible in the rain

[nickwilcock]

Ah yes, 'Luik' - that famous Belgian joke designed to confuse anyone from other parts of Western Europe...

Via Lille / Charleroi is about 14 miles longer - but probably worth it. That's the way I went on my first drive to Germany some 26 years ago - the only real problem was that the signposts only indicated major towns and didn't include road numbering...

Anything to avoid the Brussels ringpiece seems sensible!

Edited by nickwilcock on Monday 12th April 20:10

[dcb]

Hugo a Gogo said:

I'd be tempted to go Calais-Lille-Charleroi-Liege-Aachen-Cologne (and all the signs are in French so you don't have to think "where did Liege go? and what the hell is Luik?")

slightly longer, but then you avoid the Brussels ring, use the quieter southern Belgian roads and avoid Holland altogether

surface on the belgian bits is absolutely crap though, terrible in the rain

I've done that route too. Maybe it's just me, but I've always found
getting through pretty much the centre of Lille to be a *lot* more
difficult than the Brussels ring road.

I maintain the opinion that the BRR is pretty straightforward,
and if you can't manage ok, is foreign driving something
you should reconsider ?

A25 Dunkirk to Lille is atrocious road surface too. One
of the worst motorway surfaces I've ever seen, and that includes
East German cobbled autobahns.

I've also tried the Calais - Lens - Cambrai - Valenciennes
- Namur - ... route too, which is the long way around, but pretty
good.

In Germany, instead of the plain A4 route already suggested,
the original poster should try the little detour, NE via the A44,
SE via the A61 and pick up the A4 near Frechen.

I remember a little Audi that wouldn't pull in until 220 kmh
on the A44. Try that on the English M25 and they'd have your
guts for garters.

[Hugo a Gogo]

dcb said:

I maintain the opinion that the BRR is pretty straightforward,
and if you can't manage ok, is foreign driving something
you should reconsider ?

only lived in Düsseldorf for 13 years and done about 10,000km a month for around 10 of those years through holland, belgium and germany, but you may be right, I'll stay away from that nasty foreign M25

most times I've been round Brussels, or Antwerp for that matter, those ring roads have been chock a block, southern Belgium is always empty

I was in Arras last weekend, the trip back was a doddle via charlie roy (but I did see two nasty crashes in the rain)

what's so good about the a44/61 route btw? apart from getting a view into the big brown coal mine

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Monday 12th April 21:59