A Jag by any other name - 1998 Daimler
Discussion
Been meaning to make a thread for a bit about the 98 Daimler Super Eight I got this spring. The barge thread got me thinking on the idea of getting a cheap old luxury car as that might suit my driving needs quite well so decided to go for it when I saw this one advertised.
The white-haired gent I bought it from and his wife were only the second owners and had owned it since 2002. He took me for a little drive and functionally all the main things seemed well. Had a look round the outside and up close there are quite a number of small paint chips on the bonnet that had been haphazardly fixed and a few rust bubbles had appeared around the wheel arches. Underneath looked OK from what I could see though and since it seemed mechanically fine and the price was enticingly low we shook hands and I now had a barge of my own. Bit of an emotional moment for them when they waved goodbye to what had become part of the family over the last 23 years but they still had a nice choice of a Jag XK, a classic Ford and a daily Ford left to get them around. Here's a couple pics:
On the 45 minute drive home on the motorway I didn’t spot any worrying issues and it was mostly getting used to the very different steering and braking feel coming from an E90. You can definitely feel the 27 years and 158k miles a bit but that supercharged V8 still pushes on so calmly and effortlessly it’s brilliant.
I immediately loved the much much plusher suspension, particularly on the pot holed, speed bump-covered roads around where I live.
The next morning I set about cleaning the interior and discovered that the battery had discharged overnight somehow. Measuring the drain current showed up a whopping 4A so probably something shorted to ground somewhere. Turns out the car had been cheap for a reason!
I set out measuring the voltage drop across each fuse to see if any were unusual. For the measurement the ignition has to be off and the car locked so all the electronics go to sleep. I latched the boot lock and rear door lock closed with a screwdriver so I could have them open and get in to the fuse boxes while the car thinks it’s locked.
Unfortunately none of the fuses gave a hint so I followed some online advice that the alarm sounder or alternator are common issues and had a look at those. The alarm sounder isn’t mentioned in the workshop manual and from online information it was a bit unclear where to find it at the front of the car near the radiator but one potential location had some empty brackets so maybe it had failed already and been removed? I moved on to the alternator and indeed when disconnecting the + terminal the drain current disappeared! Getting the alternator out was a bit of a pain, especially the 3-pin connector on the back because I found it awkward to reach and the ancient connector was stuck on pretty tight.
Now imagine my surprise when I measured the alternator by itself and there was no sign of a short or drain current! After much head scratching and remeasuring I figured out that the drain occurs when both the + terminal and the 3-pin plug are connected. There were 3ish Volt on the pin coming from the ignition switch which caused this so I started to trace that connection to see what was going on. First I ended up at the relays for the windscreen heaters. One of them was a bit oxidised but they were working OK with no short. Next the signal came to the engine compartment fuse box where it connects to a few other circuits. I measured around a bit, pulling the various fuses etc until I found a bit of a strange voltage on one of them. It was connected among a few other things to - the alarm sounder. FFS.
I went back online to search some more and found a better description on where to find it, this time with more success. Turns out there’s a little access flap in the nearside wheel well that is really easy to get to and you can just reach in there and unplug the alarm sounder. Did that and the battery drain disappeared completely.
Here's where the alarm sounder can be accessed (at least on an early X308). I vaguely remember there being a covering, must have fallen off since?
Finally I could use the car without having to disconnect the battery all the time! By that point the whole process had taken a good 2-3 weeks of going back and forth doing some measurements here or there and then pouring over the wiring diagram to make sense of the results, often having to take off some bits to get access somewhere and put them back etc. all with me not being very fast working on cars anyway. Was happy to have gotten it sorted but also furious it could have been a 30 minute job.
Now that all the controllers had been reset I noticed some oddly high idle rpm at over 1k when I was doing a short drive soon after and had to start braking to stay in the 20mph limit. Turns out there’s an idle adaptation process where you have to let the car sit idling undisturbed for 10 minutes or so while it adjusts everything automatically and afterwards everything runs nicely again.
At this point it was almost time for the MOT (did I not mention I bought it with only two months MOT left?) so I decided to not do any more maintenance for now and see first if they’d come up with anything else. Apologies this has become a bit long. Will add more later.
The white-haired gent I bought it from and his wife were only the second owners and had owned it since 2002. He took me for a little drive and functionally all the main things seemed well. Had a look round the outside and up close there are quite a number of small paint chips on the bonnet that had been haphazardly fixed and a few rust bubbles had appeared around the wheel arches. Underneath looked OK from what I could see though and since it seemed mechanically fine and the price was enticingly low we shook hands and I now had a barge of my own. Bit of an emotional moment for them when they waved goodbye to what had become part of the family over the last 23 years but they still had a nice choice of a Jag XK, a classic Ford and a daily Ford left to get them around. Here's a couple pics:
On the 45 minute drive home on the motorway I didn’t spot any worrying issues and it was mostly getting used to the very different steering and braking feel coming from an E90. You can definitely feel the 27 years and 158k miles a bit but that supercharged V8 still pushes on so calmly and effortlessly it’s brilliant.
I immediately loved the much much plusher suspension, particularly on the pot holed, speed bump-covered roads around where I live.
The next morning I set about cleaning the interior and discovered that the battery had discharged overnight somehow. Measuring the drain current showed up a whopping 4A so probably something shorted to ground somewhere. Turns out the car had been cheap for a reason!
I set out measuring the voltage drop across each fuse to see if any were unusual. For the measurement the ignition has to be off and the car locked so all the electronics go to sleep. I latched the boot lock and rear door lock closed with a screwdriver so I could have them open and get in to the fuse boxes while the car thinks it’s locked.
Unfortunately none of the fuses gave a hint so I followed some online advice that the alarm sounder or alternator are common issues and had a look at those. The alarm sounder isn’t mentioned in the workshop manual and from online information it was a bit unclear where to find it at the front of the car near the radiator but one potential location had some empty brackets so maybe it had failed already and been removed? I moved on to the alternator and indeed when disconnecting the + terminal the drain current disappeared! Getting the alternator out was a bit of a pain, especially the 3-pin connector on the back because I found it awkward to reach and the ancient connector was stuck on pretty tight.
Now imagine my surprise when I measured the alternator by itself and there was no sign of a short or drain current! After much head scratching and remeasuring I figured out that the drain occurs when both the + terminal and the 3-pin plug are connected. There were 3ish Volt on the pin coming from the ignition switch which caused this so I started to trace that connection to see what was going on. First I ended up at the relays for the windscreen heaters. One of them was a bit oxidised but they were working OK with no short. Next the signal came to the engine compartment fuse box where it connects to a few other circuits. I measured around a bit, pulling the various fuses etc until I found a bit of a strange voltage on one of them. It was connected among a few other things to - the alarm sounder. FFS.
I went back online to search some more and found a better description on where to find it, this time with more success. Turns out there’s a little access flap in the nearside wheel well that is really easy to get to and you can just reach in there and unplug the alarm sounder. Did that and the battery drain disappeared completely.
Here's where the alarm sounder can be accessed (at least on an early X308). I vaguely remember there being a covering, must have fallen off since?
Finally I could use the car without having to disconnect the battery all the time! By that point the whole process had taken a good 2-3 weeks of going back and forth doing some measurements here or there and then pouring over the wiring diagram to make sense of the results, often having to take off some bits to get access somewhere and put them back etc. all with me not being very fast working on cars anyway. Was happy to have gotten it sorted but also furious it could have been a 30 minute job.
Now that all the controllers had been reset I noticed some oddly high idle rpm at over 1k when I was doing a short drive soon after and had to start braking to stay in the 20mph limit. Turns out there’s an idle adaptation process where you have to let the car sit idling undisturbed for 10 minutes or so while it adjusts everything automatically and afterwards everything runs nicely again.
At this point it was almost time for the MOT (did I not mention I bought it with only two months MOT left?) so I decided to not do any more maintenance for now and see first if they’d come up with anything else. Apologies this has become a bit long. Will add more later.
That looks lovely. I have a very scruffy 4.0 X300 as my shed and I adore it, my car friend thinks I'm mad for walking past at least 3 much "better" cars to use it all the time.
They're very soothing and serene, nobody makes anything at all like it now. At that age if you're not just shedding it I'd be putting a full set of dampers in and having a good poke at all the bushes, they can still feel great even when totally w
ked out, but it'll transform it.
I hope yours has been treating you well.....
They're very soothing and serene, nobody makes anything at all like it now. At that age if you're not just shedding it I'd be putting a full set of dampers in and having a good poke at all the bushes, they can still feel great even when totally w
ked out, but it'll transform it.I hope yours has been treating you well.....
After the MOT I decided to undertake the first 'uneconomical repair' and invested in a new set of tyres. That came up as one of the advisories but I had planned on doing that anyway. Otherwise it mentioned only stone chips in the windshield and minor play in front suspension. Had the windshield repaired but still need to get the suspension looked at.
Meanwhile I started using the Daimler, mostly little trips on the weekend with the odd longer one and I have to say I really enjoy driving around in it. The interior is very roomy and comfortable, visibility is really good, it has plenty of shove when needed and cruises nicely at both city speeds and on the motorway.
There's some obvious negatives like the turning circle and general size (LWB comes in at 5,15m) that make fitting into parking spots a bit slower. Mine doesn't have parking sensors either but it's not been a big deal so far. I find in general I suddenly don't mind travelling in a slightly more patient manner somehow.
The car's getting plenty of positive reactions, even kids seem to like it. On a visit at a friend's their kids were enthusiastic to give it a wash and who am I to stand in their way
J4CKO there seem to be a small number of X350 generation Daimlers too but certainly not seeing them much
Meanwhile I started using the Daimler, mostly little trips on the weekend with the odd longer one and I have to say I really enjoy driving around in it. The interior is very roomy and comfortable, visibility is really good, it has plenty of shove when needed and cruises nicely at both city speeds and on the motorway.
There's some obvious negatives like the turning circle and general size (LWB comes in at 5,15m) that make fitting into parking spots a bit slower. Mine doesn't have parking sensors either but it's not been a big deal so far. I find in general I suddenly don't mind travelling in a slightly more patient manner somehow.
The car's getting plenty of positive reactions, even kids seem to like it. On a visit at a friend's their kids were enthusiastic to give it a wash and who am I to stand in their way
GeniusOfLove said:
That looks lovely. I have a very scruffy 4.0 X300 as my shed and I adore it, my car friend thinks I'm mad for walking past at least 3 much "better" cars to use it all the time.
They're very soothing and serene, nobody makes anything at all like it now. At that age if you're not just shedding it I'd be putting a full set of dampers in and having a good poke at all the bushes, they can still feel great even when totally wked out, but it'll transform it.
I hope yours has been treating you well.....
The dampers are the non-sport CATS ones and it looks like about £250 a corner? Given that I likely won't be able to do that sort of suspension work myself that's going to get expensive... So far I'm a bit on the fence on whether to see how it goes or actually get some stuff like the rust sorted out properly.They're very soothing and serene, nobody makes anything at all like it now. At that age if you're not just shedding it I'd be putting a full set of dampers in and having a good poke at all the bushes, they can still feel great even when totally w
ked out, but it'll transform it.I hope yours has been treating you well.....
J4CKO there seem to be a small number of X350 generation Daimlers too but certainly not seeing them much
Speaking of airport trips, I picked up my parents one day and got sent this souvenir from the friendly people at Stansted because I forgot to pay the pickup charge!
I always find it amusing how low these XJ8 are compared to most other cars on the road, SUVs absolutely tower over them. Combined with their length gives them a very unique appearance. But yes chauffeuring around others in the back is always fun, should try that out myself sometime.
I always find it amusing how low these XJ8 are compared to most other cars on the road, SUVs absolutely tower over them. Combined with their length gives them a very unique appearance. But yes chauffeuring around others in the back is always fun, should try that out myself sometime.
A bunch of the lightbulbs illuminating the switches for climate control and heated seats etc had gone out as well as the one for the clock so I decided to replace them. For the most part a fairly straightforward job: pull off the trim around the gear selector, undo a few 7mm screws to be able to lift off the plastic frame around the j-gate and the wood trim then comes out. Shifter in N works best for this. Then there are some philips screws for the radio and the module with the switches on it and then also for the back panels of that module.
The bulbs themselves have a little slot for a flathead screwdriver and can just be twisted on and off. Biggest problem I had was the brittle old plastics from the last century that break quite easily and that it's very easy to drop some of these little screws into the gaps below the j-gate. They're impossible to get out so it has become their final resting place now unless I decide to disassemble the whole thing for some reason.
Taking out the clock is slightly more tricky as you not only have to take off the trim around the vents but also loosen the trim on either side a good bit (disconnect battery to not anger the passenger airbag). Then the vent assembly can be unscrewed and wiggled out to the point that you can reach under and unplug the harness at the back and then take it out. Unfortunately I forgot to take pictures of this. When reinstalling the workshop manual recommends to use new metal clips for the dash trim which I didn't do but I can see it being handy because the clips can bend out of shape and not hold well - happened only to one for me luckily.
Overall a simple job but finding out the right types of bulbs and searching for someone selling them took ages, longer then the install. There's loads of adverts on ebay with vague descriptions and I ended up buying a mixture of sizes and colours to make sure I'd end up with something fitting. Most of them cost buttons.
- T3 neo wedge bulbs for most of the switches
- T4.2 neo wedge bulbs for the screen backlights
- 2721MF bulb for the clock
Below the old blueish green T3 ones on the left and new ones on the right.
Now for my next job I'll have to track down a slow coolant leak. I topped it up with half a litre or so when I bought the car but couldn't see any leaks then and decided to wait and observe. Now after about 800 miles it's gone down by about another half a litre again.
When checking after my last drive I couldn't spot any wet patches around the radiator, thermostat housing and hoses in the front or around the header tank. Couldn't see anything on the pipes at the back of the engine either but it's hard to see there. One of the metal ones seemed to have a bit of residue or corrosion on it maybe I should start my investigation there?
The bulbs themselves have a little slot for a flathead screwdriver and can just be twisted on and off. Biggest problem I had was the brittle old plastics from the last century that break quite easily and that it's very easy to drop some of these little screws into the gaps below the j-gate. They're impossible to get out so it has become their final resting place now unless I decide to disassemble the whole thing for some reason.
Taking out the clock is slightly more tricky as you not only have to take off the trim around the vents but also loosen the trim on either side a good bit (disconnect battery to not anger the passenger airbag). Then the vent assembly can be unscrewed and wiggled out to the point that you can reach under and unplug the harness at the back and then take it out. Unfortunately I forgot to take pictures of this. When reinstalling the workshop manual recommends to use new metal clips for the dash trim which I didn't do but I can see it being handy because the clips can bend out of shape and not hold well - happened only to one for me luckily.
Overall a simple job but finding out the right types of bulbs and searching for someone selling them took ages, longer then the install. There's loads of adverts on ebay with vague descriptions and I ended up buying a mixture of sizes and colours to make sure I'd end up with something fitting. Most of them cost buttons.
- T3 neo wedge bulbs for most of the switches
- T4.2 neo wedge bulbs for the screen backlights
- 2721MF bulb for the clock
Below the old blueish green T3 ones on the left and new ones on the right.
Now for my next job I'll have to track down a slow coolant leak. I topped it up with half a litre or so when I bought the car but couldn't see any leaks then and decided to wait and observe. Now after about 800 miles it's gone down by about another half a litre again.
When checking after my last drive I couldn't spot any wet patches around the radiator, thermostat housing and hoses in the front or around the header tank. Couldn't see anything on the pipes at the back of the engine either but it's hard to see there. One of the metal ones seemed to have a bit of residue or corrosion on it maybe I should start my investigation there?
Marvellous stuff. I have a 2002 x308 Daimler 8 (Bizarrely registered as a Super 8 on the V5).
As you said, it does encourage a more relaxed driving style, despite the oodles of power on offer. And a battery in tip-top condition is a prerequisite, because otherwise EVERYTHING goes wrong.
Interested to know what tyres you chose? I need to replace the awful ditchfinders mine came with but am trying to find the best way to change all four for less than 40% of the car's value.
Is your headlining still intact? Surely it can't have lasted this long?
As you said, it does encourage a more relaxed driving style, despite the oodles of power on offer. And a battery in tip-top condition is a prerequisite, because otherwise EVERYTHING goes wrong.
Interested to know what tyres you chose? I need to replace the awful ditchfinders mine came with but am trying to find the best way to change all four for less than 40% of the car's value.
Is your headlining still intact? Surely it can't have lasted this long?
GeniusOfLove said:
Tracing slow coolant leaks is a massive arseache. I've put a dye in the coolant and used a UV lamp to find them in the past.
Well worth picking up a pressure tester too, you can pressurise it cold and see if you can hear or see anything.
My old X308 4.0 XJ8 used to weep coolant from the front of the 'cooling tower' in the middle of the V when was warm. I only discovered the problem when I parked up at home one night after work in the middle of winter and saw hot vapour rising from the radiator grille when I had stopped. On checking the tower I could see it had the dried traces of fluid that had leaked out and evaporated in the heat. I was going to buy an aluminium tower to replace the plastic one, but I thought I'd try a replacement cap first for about £4. That worked - I think it screwed on with an Allen key - and solved the problem. The old ones could warp and this one had. No further issued during my time with the car. I think I also put some Radweld in, since it was an old car. I wouldn't use that on a car I planned to keep for years. Well worth picking up a pressure tester too, you can pressurise it cold and see if you can hear or see anything.
Big Pants said:
Interested to know what tyres you chose? I need to replace the awful ditchfinders mine came with but am trying to find the best way to change all four for less than 40% of the car's value.
Is your headlining still intact? Surely it can't have lasted this long?
I have Conti Ultracontact 235/50/17. Think the choice was quite small for me, some bottom shelf stuff and some premium, nothing inbetween. I justified it with the car being so cheap that my overall spend is still low!Is your headlining still intact? Surely it can't have lasted this long?
Headlining is still OK I think - at least I never noticed anything too obvious.
After the tip from GoL I got a UV dye kit and put it in last evening. Let the car idle for a bit and hunted around with the UV light but couldn't spot anything straightaway so will check back another day. There is already some kind of residue on the engine and some nearby parts that shows up in UV light though which will make dried dye a little harder to spot but let's see.
In the meantime I improved my bluetooth connectivity a bit. At first I used a bluetooth cassette adapter to stream music but it sometimes had some weird distortion on it and was annoying to charge so I followed a guide from jaguarforums to splice an aux cable into the AINET input of the CD changer in the boot. https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xj-xj8-xjr-x308...
The boot liner is easily removed and taking out the CD changer and opening the case no problem. After unhooking the changer itself from its suspension you can access this little connector board:
It's a bit fiddly but you can unplug that white AINET connector without removing the board. Then cutting open the connector lets you take out the wires running the audio signals: blue (signal left), green (signal right), black (signal ground). The idea is to wire these to the aux-in cable and leave the rest of the wires connected to make the system think the CD player is still there.
I cut open a 3.5mm aux cable with a female connector and wired the individual signal wires to the corresponding AINET connectors. Then I plugged the connector back in, put the CD changer back and reconnected it. Hooked up an mp3 player in the boot to test and setting the stereo to CD flawlessly played the sound from the aux port - result!
I then routed an aux cable from the centre console along the rear seat edges through a small gap you can make between the C-pillar trim and the parcel shelf and plugged it into the one in the CD changer. The cable has to be pushed from the cabin side though so I found it easier to use two separate cables for the job as you can do all the work on the CD changer away from the car. After pushing the cable through the C-pillar gap it appeared in a small black box mounted under the parcel shelf which doesn't serve any obvious function but has a soft flap at the front so I could easily pull the cable through and then route it along the boot edges to the CD changer.
Not the tidiest of solutions but works well enough and can be reverted back to playing CDs if ever needed. There's also premade options you can buy for bluetooth connectivity: A connector that plugs directly into the AINET cable sold from a place in the US and a guy here in the UK who you can post your radio to and he'll upgrade it.
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