Guards Red Porsche 987.2 S
Discussion
I’ve sold my Cayman R, and just bought a 987.2 S to replace it:
Surely a downgrade from the pinnacle of the 987 range? To understand the switch, let me take you back to my first Porsche, a 986 Boxster S:
The 986 was a wonderful example, low mileage and always garaged. Out of the box, it was surprisingly fast on circuit, posting 58 second laps around Brands Hatch. Being able to get the roof down also took the seriousness out of driving - at the flick of a switch, it felt like you were going faster at lower speeds.
However, I’d had a bucket list car in mind for years: a white Cayman R with silver wheels, manual gearbox and carbon-fibre bucket seats. That’s exactly what I bought a few years later:
It was an absolutely epic car: fantastic steering, light on its feet, fast enough to get you into trouble, yet easy enough to drive fast.
But something struck me: it drove so much like the 986 Boxster S, just with 20% ‘more’ everywhere. 20% faster, 20% grippier, 20% more sound. Here’s the kicker - it cost 500% more than the 986.
Amazing as the Cayman R was, for me, it wasn’t the perfect driver’s car. As standard, the brakes felt weak - the discs and calipers were a direct carry over from the 986 S, but they had 70 more bhp to manage, and actually felt worse because Porsche moved to a different master cylinder for the 987. The gearshift was a touch sloppy. The engine - while powerful - had a slightly lazy character, with a linear power curve that started to flatten off after 5500rpm. And finally, there was limited geometry adjustment on the front end, meaning you couldn’t get enough negative camber.
There were all of these weaknesses, but because the car wore Porsche decals, had an aero-kit, pull straps instead of door handles, alcantara trim and carbon-fibre bucket seats, it looked like it belonged on a circuit. That was a slightly frustrating contrast to how it performed out of the box.
Comparing the 986 Boxster S to the Cayman R, pound-for-pound, the value of the 986 was off-the-charts. The Cayman R with better tyres, carrying 120kg less weight (inc. no passenger), and having 70 more bhp, was 2.5 seconds quicker than the 986 around Brands Hatch.
Faster, yes, but worth the 500% premium, given a similar driving experience?
That brings me back to the 987.2 S. It is, in my opinion, the best value Porsche that money can buy right now.
The 986 market has risen since I sold mine: Ashgood recently sold a very nice 986.2 S with 50,000 miles for close to £20k.
For little extra money, the engine in the 987.2 moves the game on completely. It has multiple oil scavenge pumps (like the 997 GT3), no IMS, and a more robust air-oil separator. In contrast, Hartech told me that I was playing with fire taking my 986 on circuit.
Values for the 987.2 seem to have bottomed out: mine has 18,000 miles, 2 previous owners, and a full service history. It’s the closest thing I could find to a brand new 987.2, yet it cost barely more than the 50,000 mile 986 mentioned above, and less than half the price of the equivalent Cayman R (or Boxster Spyder).
What does that mean? It means I’m hoping to have my cake and eat it: a car that’s usable with both the roof up and down, with plenty of money left over to address the same platform weaknesses as the Cayman R.
Will it ever match the Cayman R? I’m not sure. Stay tuned for modifications, road trips and track days
Surely a downgrade from the pinnacle of the 987 range? To understand the switch, let me take you back to my first Porsche, a 986 Boxster S:
The 986 was a wonderful example, low mileage and always garaged. Out of the box, it was surprisingly fast on circuit, posting 58 second laps around Brands Hatch. Being able to get the roof down also took the seriousness out of driving - at the flick of a switch, it felt like you were going faster at lower speeds.
However, I’d had a bucket list car in mind for years: a white Cayman R with silver wheels, manual gearbox and carbon-fibre bucket seats. That’s exactly what I bought a few years later:
It was an absolutely epic car: fantastic steering, light on its feet, fast enough to get you into trouble, yet easy enough to drive fast.
But something struck me: it drove so much like the 986 Boxster S, just with 20% ‘more’ everywhere. 20% faster, 20% grippier, 20% more sound. Here’s the kicker - it cost 500% more than the 986.
Amazing as the Cayman R was, for me, it wasn’t the perfect driver’s car. As standard, the brakes felt weak - the discs and calipers were a direct carry over from the 986 S, but they had 70 more bhp to manage, and actually felt worse because Porsche moved to a different master cylinder for the 987. The gearshift was a touch sloppy. The engine - while powerful - had a slightly lazy character, with a linear power curve that started to flatten off after 5500rpm. And finally, there was limited geometry adjustment on the front end, meaning you couldn’t get enough negative camber.
There were all of these weaknesses, but because the car wore Porsche decals, had an aero-kit, pull straps instead of door handles, alcantara trim and carbon-fibre bucket seats, it looked like it belonged on a circuit. That was a slightly frustrating contrast to how it performed out of the box.
Comparing the 986 Boxster S to the Cayman R, pound-for-pound, the value of the 986 was off-the-charts. The Cayman R with better tyres, carrying 120kg less weight (inc. no passenger), and having 70 more bhp, was 2.5 seconds quicker than the 986 around Brands Hatch.
Faster, yes, but worth the 500% premium, given a similar driving experience?
That brings me back to the 987.2 S. It is, in my opinion, the best value Porsche that money can buy right now.
The 986 market has risen since I sold mine: Ashgood recently sold a very nice 986.2 S with 50,000 miles for close to £20k.
For little extra money, the engine in the 987.2 moves the game on completely. It has multiple oil scavenge pumps (like the 997 GT3), no IMS, and a more robust air-oil separator. In contrast, Hartech told me that I was playing with fire taking my 986 on circuit.
Values for the 987.2 seem to have bottomed out: mine has 18,000 miles, 2 previous owners, and a full service history. It’s the closest thing I could find to a brand new 987.2, yet it cost barely more than the 50,000 mile 986 mentioned above, and less than half the price of the equivalent Cayman R (or Boxster Spyder).
What does that mean? It means I’m hoping to have my cake and eat it: a car that’s usable with both the roof up and down, with plenty of money left over to address the same platform weaknesses as the Cayman R.
Will it ever match the Cayman R? I’m not sure. Stay tuned for modifications, road trips and track days
Great move, I agree on the value point. I've always thought the Cayman R was very overpriced, it doesn't offer much more than the 987.2 really.
I've looked at the 987.2 s before and think they represent superb value along with the 981, they just need a few mods to make them feel a bit less German. Spend £5k and I reckon you will have a cracking car!
I've looked at the 987.2 s before and think they represent superb value along with the 981, they just need a few mods to make them feel a bit less German. Spend £5k and I reckon you will have a cracking car!
CantDecide said:
What a beauty, looks to be in amazing condition and with such low miles should be an absolute joy!
Hopefully will be!Jonstar said:
Great move, I agree on the value point. I've always thought the Cayman R was very overpriced, it doesn't offer much more than the 987.2 really.
I've looked at the 987.2 s before and think they represent superb value along with the 981, they just need a few mods to make them feel a bit less German. Spend £5k and I reckon you will have a cracking car!
I think what you're really buying is the 'special' factor - it's a rare car, looks amazing, and I used to have people approach me to talk about it. You don't really get that in a standard Boxster or Cayman, even if the driving experience is similar.I've looked at the 987.2 s before and think they represent superb value along with the 981, they just need a few mods to make them feel a bit less German. Spend £5k and I reckon you will have a cracking car!
sc0tt said:
Hi, local here assuming those pictures were taken in bluewater.
Am i reading right you paid upwards of 20k?
Correct, just above that mark Am i reading right you paid upwards of 20k?
Mr Tidy said:
Your 987 looks great in that colour!
The money left from selling your Cayman should pay for plenty of tack days!
Thanks! Guards Red with silver wheels is one of my favourite colour combos on any Porsche.The money left from selling your Cayman should pay for plenty of tack days!
Belle427 said:
Looks great in red, I keep looking at these as they are the perfect sports car really and good value.
I really fancied a 996 Turbo/C4S but prices of both are silly now and I cant help thinking one of these is a better bet.
That rear end looks nice, is that the standard bumper?
The 996 was my poster car growing up, and I love both the Turbo and C4S. However, the reality is they're getting pretty old now, so you need to start treating them like classic cars and spend on maintenance accordingly.I really fancied a 996 Turbo/C4S but prices of both are silly now and I cant help thinking one of these is a better bet.
That rear end looks nice, is that the standard bumper?
A friend bought what looked like one of the best C4S' on the market - lower miles, full Porsche & specialist service history, sold by a well-known specialist 2 years prior. However, it absolutely loved to drink oil, and at the first service the list of items to fix was as long as your arm. He sold it shortly after as it was looking like a bit of a money pit.
Congratulations on the purchase, looks like a lovely example.
I’ve been keeping an eye on the Cayman R market recently as considering a change from my GR86, but coming to the same conclusion that £20k less than the price of a well-spec’d manual R buys a nice 987.2 S which can be tailored to your preferences and might be the better idea…
I’ve been keeping an eye on the Cayman R market recently as considering a change from my GR86, but coming to the same conclusion that £20k less than the price of a well-spec’d manual R buys a nice 987.2 S which can be tailored to your preferences and might be the better idea…
John D. said:
That's a decent vid. How did you film it? The drivers eye view really works.
Thanks! I used a GoPro Max2 strapped to my helmet, and a DJI Mic 3 for the voiceover.AndrewGP said:
Congratulations on a fine looking car, in red and on those particular wheels, I think it looks great.
I thoroughly enjoyed my 987.2 (I had the 2.9), it was a brilliant car
Thanks - I do really like the silver Carrera S II wheel + red combo I thoroughly enjoyed my 987.2 (I had the 2.9), it was a brilliant car
T1547 said:
Congratulations on the purchase, looks like a lovely example.
I ve been keeping an eye on the Cayman R market recently as considering a change from my GR86, but coming to the same conclusion that £20k less than the price of a well-spec d manual R buys a nice 987.2 S which can be tailored to your preferences and might be the better idea
I think it depends on how much you value the rarity factor. You get instant petrolhead 'street cred' telling people you own a Cayman R!I ve been keeping an eye on the Cayman R market recently as considering a change from my GR86, but coming to the same conclusion that £20k less than the price of a well-spec d manual R buys a nice 987.2 S which can be tailored to your preferences and might be the better idea
I took some time to research the weight, chassis and power changes for the Cayman R.
Compared to a standard 987.2 Boxster/Cayman S, what’s different, and what would it cost to match the R?
1. Weight
Air conditioning & speaker delete (15 kg): The majority of Cayman R’s were specced with air conditioning and speakers, so we’ll skip this weight saving.
Aluminium doors & panels (15 kg): Aluminium doors & panels would be totally cost ineffective, but you can save the same 15kg using a lithium battery (see MotoIQ). This would also lower the car’s centre of mass. A 60Ah Antigravity battery costs around £1000.
Bucket seats (12 kg): A pair of Recaro Pole Position or Corbeau GT3 seats will give you the same weight saving as those beautiful carbon-buckets in the Cayman R. I’ve always loved the look of ‘elephant ear’ 996 GT3 seats, so would go with Corbeau seats. Let’s call it £3000 for the carbon-fibre, leather variants with mounts, minus selling the standard 987/997 sport seats for £1500.
Other (8 kg): Porsche didn’t detail what’s in the ‘other’ category, but it’s probably small details all over the car like the spoiler motor delete, fabric door handles, etc. If you wanted to save 8kg, you could start by removing the rear spoiler motor (-3kg) and NVH foam above the engine (-5kg). There are probably lots of other areas I haven’t thought of. Cost: £0.
Lightweight BBS rims (5 kg): It’s a little known fact that the Carrera S II alloys are also lightweight rims made by BBS, and weigh near-enough the same as a set of Cayman R rims (see 944Racing). Cost: £0, since my car already has them.
Weight saving: 40kg
Total cost: £2500
2. Chassis
Limited-slip differential: The Cayman R LSD has tiny friction plates and zero preload, meaning it’s as close as it gets to being an open differential, while still having ‘LSD’ listed on the spec sheet. Given how quickly Porsche’s street LSDs are known to wear out (as little as 2-3 track days in a 996 GT3, which has 50% larger friction plates), I’m going to make the bold assumption that most Cayman Rs have open differentials by now. So, we’ll skip the LSD - but I would like to fit a proper plated LSD in the future, such as an OS Giken. Interesting reading: Cayman R LSD - Planet-9, PH | 996 GT3 LSD - Rennlist, PH. Cost: £0.
Springs & dampers (-20 mm): Brand new Cayman R springs and dampers are available from Porsche for £2200 inc. VAT. Seems like a bargain compared to Ohlins R&T coilovers which get mixed feedback, cost 50% more, and are designed to be serviced after 18,000 miles or 5 track days. Good condition, used springs & dampers sell for around £400.
Rear anti-roll bar: The Cayman R has a thicker rear anti-roll bar. A brand new one including mounts costs £250 inc. VAT from Porsche.
Total cost: £2050
3. Power
Using the 987 Boxster & Cayman part catalogues, I asked AI to compare the part numbers for the intake, engine and exhaust between each model: the Boxster S (310 hp), Boxster Spyder (320 hp), Cayman S (320 hp) and Cayman R (330 hp).
Turns out every model shares identical part numbers, with the exception of the Cayman R, which has different exhaust silencers.
Exhaust silencers (10 hp): The Cayman R silencers have a 55mm inlet instead of the standard 48mm. While many don’t think this adds any power, let’s assume it’s how Porsche managed to get an extra 10hp out of the R, compared to the Boxster Spyder and Cayman S. Instead of the silencers, you could replace an even more restrictive section of the exhaust: the catalytic converters. Carnewal 200-cell cats cost about £1500 delivered.
Engine map (10 hp): Add £500 for 4 hours of rolling-road mapping at Chipwizards - to remove the artificial 10hp limitation for the Boxster S and fine-tune - and I suspect you’ll have more power than a Cayman R.
Extra power: 20hp
Total cost: £2000
Summary
That’s it. For around £6500 inc. VAT in parts & tuning, you’d have a 987.2 that’s as lightweight as the Cayman R, with carbon-fibre bucket seats, brand new springs & dampers, and similar power. Depending how much work you’re doing yourself, you’ll need to add labour costs.
Of course, not all of these are worth spending the money on. Which parts would you choose?
Compared to a standard 987.2 Boxster/Cayman S, what’s different, and what would it cost to match the R?
1. Weight
Air conditioning & speaker delete (15 kg): The majority of Cayman R’s were specced with air conditioning and speakers, so we’ll skip this weight saving.
Aluminium doors & panels (15 kg): Aluminium doors & panels would be totally cost ineffective, but you can save the same 15kg using a lithium battery (see MotoIQ). This would also lower the car’s centre of mass. A 60Ah Antigravity battery costs around £1000.
Bucket seats (12 kg): A pair of Recaro Pole Position or Corbeau GT3 seats will give you the same weight saving as those beautiful carbon-buckets in the Cayman R. I’ve always loved the look of ‘elephant ear’ 996 GT3 seats, so would go with Corbeau seats. Let’s call it £3000 for the carbon-fibre, leather variants with mounts, minus selling the standard 987/997 sport seats for £1500.
Other (8 kg): Porsche didn’t detail what’s in the ‘other’ category, but it’s probably small details all over the car like the spoiler motor delete, fabric door handles, etc. If you wanted to save 8kg, you could start by removing the rear spoiler motor (-3kg) and NVH foam above the engine (-5kg). There are probably lots of other areas I haven’t thought of. Cost: £0.
Lightweight BBS rims (5 kg): It’s a little known fact that the Carrera S II alloys are also lightweight rims made by BBS, and weigh near-enough the same as a set of Cayman R rims (see 944Racing). Cost: £0, since my car already has them.
Weight saving: 40kg
Total cost: £2500
2. Chassis
Limited-slip differential: The Cayman R LSD has tiny friction plates and zero preload, meaning it’s as close as it gets to being an open differential, while still having ‘LSD’ listed on the spec sheet. Given how quickly Porsche’s street LSDs are known to wear out (as little as 2-3 track days in a 996 GT3, which has 50% larger friction plates), I’m going to make the bold assumption that most Cayman Rs have open differentials by now. So, we’ll skip the LSD - but I would like to fit a proper plated LSD in the future, such as an OS Giken. Interesting reading: Cayman R LSD - Planet-9, PH | 996 GT3 LSD - Rennlist, PH. Cost: £0.
Springs & dampers (-20 mm): Brand new Cayman R springs and dampers are available from Porsche for £2200 inc. VAT. Seems like a bargain compared to Ohlins R&T coilovers which get mixed feedback, cost 50% more, and are designed to be serviced after 18,000 miles or 5 track days. Good condition, used springs & dampers sell for around £400.
Rear anti-roll bar: The Cayman R has a thicker rear anti-roll bar. A brand new one including mounts costs £250 inc. VAT from Porsche.
Total cost: £2050
3. Power
Using the 987 Boxster & Cayman part catalogues, I asked AI to compare the part numbers for the intake, engine and exhaust between each model: the Boxster S (310 hp), Boxster Spyder (320 hp), Cayman S (320 hp) and Cayman R (330 hp).
Turns out every model shares identical part numbers, with the exception of the Cayman R, which has different exhaust silencers.
Exhaust silencers (10 hp): The Cayman R silencers have a 55mm inlet instead of the standard 48mm. While many don’t think this adds any power, let’s assume it’s how Porsche managed to get an extra 10hp out of the R, compared to the Boxster Spyder and Cayman S. Instead of the silencers, you could replace an even more restrictive section of the exhaust: the catalytic converters. Carnewal 200-cell cats cost about £1500 delivered.
Engine map (10 hp): Add £500 for 4 hours of rolling-road mapping at Chipwizards - to remove the artificial 10hp limitation for the Boxster S and fine-tune - and I suspect you’ll have more power than a Cayman R.
Extra power: 20hp
Total cost: £2000
Summary
That’s it. For around £6500 inc. VAT in parts & tuning, you’d have a 987.2 that’s as lightweight as the Cayman R, with carbon-fibre bucket seats, brand new springs & dampers, and similar power. Depending how much work you’re doing yourself, you’ll need to add labour costs.
Of course, not all of these are worth spending the money on. Which parts would you choose?
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