Cerbera LS Project
Discussion
I started this thread really with a question about pros and cons of putting an AJP or something else in my scrap Cerbera and it has morphed into a project build thread over time.
Brief history:
I was thinking about buying myself a fun sports car, there's nothing new in the £50-80k range I would particularly be interested in. Had to feel special, had to be light, "analogue" and not overly-assisted. Had to be manual and i prefer a large capacity NA to forced induction.
Ford Mustang maybe, perhaps not quite special enough and a bit porky. Emira - I love Lotus and have had a few but i'm not a fan of the styling (just my personal opinion, i find it a bit over-styled in a very modern way). An air-cooled 911 was on my radar, a 550 scared the pants off me for potential repair/maintenance cost. I contemplated a manual DB9 or Vantage but not really analogue or a sports car in my book. Boxster or Cayman didn't strike me as very special. E46 CSL was a possibility but don't love the box. R8 didn't appeal. LHD put me off things like Vipers or other classic yank muscle cars.
I was a car mad 16-year old when the Cerbera was released. I used to see the occasional Griff and Chimaera around and adored them, i loved the drama, the noise, the simplicity of them but it was the Cerbera that really got to me. I remember being on holiday in Summer 97 and I spent a week poring over an issue of Performance Car where they tested a Cerb 4.5 against a 911, an NSX, a Maserati Ghibili (belonging to Harry M actually) and an Esprit V8. All fine cars but the Cerb just blew me away with its drama and sheer performance. I knew i wanted a Cerbera at some time and i knew it had to be purple.
Some 25-30 years iater I'd been through all kinds of performance cars but never scratched the TVR itch. An ex colleague mate of mine had bought this car and sat on it for a few years then mentioned on his socials he was thinking of making some space in his garage so i gave him a call and a deal was done.
Original post:
Long story short I have an early 4.2 Cerb minus engine and box. Low miles, needs usual stuff - chassis restoration, full going over and electrical stuff then paint and retrim. I accept it is a large, long, expensive project.
Because I bought it without an engine or gearbox (the previous owner pulled them out and sold them with the intention of fitting a BMW V10 from the E60 M5 and the manual box from an E90 M3) I have a blank slate and my immediate plan was really to do an off the shelf crate LS3 conversion from the likes of Sportmotive. Reliable, unstressed, great parts availability etc etc.
I could try to find an AJP and original gearbox and I am sure the value of the thing would benefit a lot from that but I am really not planning on selling it - although we never know what lies ahead of course.
Cerb values seem to be climbing but realistically it is never going to be worth what the restoration is going to cost me so my line of thought is that if I wanted an AJP car I would be better just going and buying a complete running car for £30k and be done with it.
Also, I could refit another AJP but it will not be the original engine so will not be a matching numbers car.
PH, your thoughts??
PFA
Brief history:
I was thinking about buying myself a fun sports car, there's nothing new in the £50-80k range I would particularly be interested in. Had to feel special, had to be light, "analogue" and not overly-assisted. Had to be manual and i prefer a large capacity NA to forced induction.
Ford Mustang maybe, perhaps not quite special enough and a bit porky. Emira - I love Lotus and have had a few but i'm not a fan of the styling (just my personal opinion, i find it a bit over-styled in a very modern way). An air-cooled 911 was on my radar, a 550 scared the pants off me for potential repair/maintenance cost. I contemplated a manual DB9 or Vantage but not really analogue or a sports car in my book. Boxster or Cayman didn't strike me as very special. E46 CSL was a possibility but don't love the box. R8 didn't appeal. LHD put me off things like Vipers or other classic yank muscle cars.
I was a car mad 16-year old when the Cerbera was released. I used to see the occasional Griff and Chimaera around and adored them, i loved the drama, the noise, the simplicity of them but it was the Cerbera that really got to me. I remember being on holiday in Summer 97 and I spent a week poring over an issue of Performance Car where they tested a Cerb 4.5 against a 911, an NSX, a Maserati Ghibili (belonging to Harry M actually) and an Esprit V8. All fine cars but the Cerb just blew me away with its drama and sheer performance. I knew i wanted a Cerbera at some time and i knew it had to be purple.
Some 25-30 years iater I'd been through all kinds of performance cars but never scratched the TVR itch. An ex colleague mate of mine had bought this car and sat on it for a few years then mentioned on his socials he was thinking of making some space in his garage so i gave him a call and a deal was done.
Original post:
Long story short I have an early 4.2 Cerb minus engine and box. Low miles, needs usual stuff - chassis restoration, full going over and electrical stuff then paint and retrim. I accept it is a large, long, expensive project.
Because I bought it without an engine or gearbox (the previous owner pulled them out and sold them with the intention of fitting a BMW V10 from the E60 M5 and the manual box from an E90 M3) I have a blank slate and my immediate plan was really to do an off the shelf crate LS3 conversion from the likes of Sportmotive. Reliable, unstressed, great parts availability etc etc.
I could try to find an AJP and original gearbox and I am sure the value of the thing would benefit a lot from that but I am really not planning on selling it - although we never know what lies ahead of course.
Cerb values seem to be climbing but realistically it is never going to be worth what the restoration is going to cost me so my line of thought is that if I wanted an AJP car I would be better just going and buying a complete running car for £30k and be done with it.
Also, I could refit another AJP but it will not be the original engine so will not be a matching numbers car.
PH, your thoughts??
PFA
Edited by Lefty on Sunday 23 August 09:31
I've been down a similar road, I used to have a really nice Cerb and sold it, now I wish I had another so a long term project is appealing but for me the AJP8 is what makes the Cerb so special. I know a crate LS would be amazing for many reasons but then it's not an AJP8 so just doesn't seem right.
I guess the answer is have 2
I guess the answer is have 2
Good plan!!
I was 99% decided on the LS route but am having nagging doubts.
The only consolation is that putting big capacity American v8 motors into TVR chassis is part of TVR history. At least that is what I tell myself.
Probably £20k in parts
Crate motor £7000
Gearbox £2000
Bellhousing, clutch and flywheel £2000
ECU and loom £2000
Exhaust £2000
Bits and bobs (mounts, fuel lines, e-throttle pedal etc etc)
But I’d need to buy all this stuff anyway if going for an AJP.
I reckon it’s probably cost neutral. And the LS ought to be a lot more reliable, will easily make more power if needed (I doubt it will be).
I was 99% decided on the LS route but am having nagging doubts.
The only consolation is that putting big capacity American v8 motors into TVR chassis is part of TVR history. At least that is what I tell myself.
Probably £20k in parts
Crate motor £7000
Gearbox £2000
Bellhousing, clutch and flywheel £2000
ECU and loom £2000
Exhaust £2000
Bits and bobs (mounts, fuel lines, e-throttle pedal etc etc)
But I’d need to buy all this stuff anyway if going for an AJP.
I reckon it’s probably cost neutral. And the LS ought to be a lot more reliable, will easily make more power if needed (I doubt it will be).
There's the guy in Instagram who dropped the S85 5.0-liter V10 from the BMW M5 (E60). into a Sagaris
There was the guy who dropped the Masserati engine in, because he had it. Maserati Granturismo 4.7l engine - almost 480bhp
The supercharged 4.5 AJP was 540bhp
We had a day in 2019 with modified cars to see what power could be produced.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
There was the guy who dropped the Masserati engine in, because he had it. Maserati Granturismo 4.7l engine - almost 480bhp
The supercharged 4.5 AJP was 540bhp
We had a day in 2019 with modified cars to see what power could be produced.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Lefty said:
Good plan!!
I was 99% decided on the LS route but am having nagging doubts.
The only consolation is that putting big capacity American v8 motors into TVR chassis is part of TVR history. At least that is what I tell myself.
Probably £20k in parts
Crate motor £7000
Gearbox £2000
Bellhousing, clutch and flywheel £2000
ECU and loom £2000
Exhaust £2000
Bits and bobs (mounts, fuel lines, e-throttle pedal etc etc)
But I d need to buy all this stuff anyway if going for an AJP.
I reckon it s probably cost neutral. And the LS ought to be a lot more reliable, will easily make more power if needed (I doubt it will be).
I have a complete running AJP with gearbox, even the loom and ECU. Would sell it all for 15kI was 99% decided on the LS route but am having nagging doubts.
The only consolation is that putting big capacity American v8 motors into TVR chassis is part of TVR history. At least that is what I tell myself.
Probably £20k in parts
Crate motor £7000
Gearbox £2000
Bellhousing, clutch and flywheel £2000
ECU and loom £2000
Exhaust £2000
Bits and bobs (mounts, fuel lines, e-throttle pedal etc etc)
But I d need to buy all this stuff anyway if going for an AJP.
I reckon it s probably cost neutral. And the LS ought to be a lot more reliable, will easily make more power if needed (I doubt it will be).
So that is,
AJP Engine
Throttle bodies
Alternator
Injectors
Wiring loom
ECU
Flywheel
Clutch
Bell Housing
Gearbox
Literally bolt it in and off you go
itsallyellow said:
Lefty said:
Good plan!!
I was 99% decided on the LS route but am having nagging doubts.
The only consolation is that putting big capacity American v8 motors into TVR chassis is part of TVR history. At least that is what I tell myself.
Probably £20k in parts
Crate motor £7000
Gearbox £2000
Bellhousing, clutch and flywheel £2000
ECU and loom £2000
Exhaust £2000
Bits and bobs (mounts, fuel lines, e-throttle pedal etc etc)
But I d need to buy all this stuff anyway if going for an AJP.
I reckon it s probably cost neutral. And the LS ought to be a lot more reliable, will easily make more power if needed (I doubt it will be).
I have a complete running AJP with gearbox, even the loom and ECU. Would sell it all for 15kI was 99% decided on the LS route but am having nagging doubts.
The only consolation is that putting big capacity American v8 motors into TVR chassis is part of TVR history. At least that is what I tell myself.
Probably £20k in parts
Crate motor £7000
Gearbox £2000
Bellhousing, clutch and flywheel £2000
ECU and loom £2000
Exhaust £2000
Bits and bobs (mounts, fuel lines, e-throttle pedal etc etc)
But I d need to buy all this stuff anyway if going for an AJP.
I reckon it s probably cost neutral. And the LS ought to be a lot more reliable, will easily make more power if needed (I doubt it will be).
So that is,
AJP Engine
Throttle bodies
Alternator
Injectors
Wiring loom
ECU
Flywheel
Clutch
Bell Housing
Gearbox
Literally bolt it in and off you go
Byker28i said:
There's the guy in Instagram who dropped the S85 5.0-liter V10 from the BMW M5 (E60). into a Sagaris
There was the guy who dropped the Masserati engine in, because he had it. Maserati Granturismo 4.7l engine - almost 480bhp
The supercharged 4.5 AJP was 540bhp
We had a day in 2019 with modified cars to see what power could be produced.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
That is interesting, thanks There was the guy who dropped the Masserati engine in, because he had it. Maserati Granturismo 4.7l engine - almost 480bhp
The supercharged 4.5 AJP was 540bhp
We had a day in 2019 with modified cars to see what power could be produced.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I’m not chasing mad power, I like the idea of reliability, the sound, the ease of use and availability of bits.
I’ve never driven a Cerb (always wanted one since I first saw one, 1996, I was an impressionable car-mad 16yo).
Cerb / Sag / GTR mash up by Fully Loaded Cars on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-5xLLPsHXR...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-5xLLPsHXR...
Lefty said:
itsallyellow said:
Lefty said:
Good plan!!
I was 99% decided on the LS route but am having nagging doubts.
The only consolation is that putting big capacity American v8 motors into TVR chassis is part of TVR history. At least that is what I tell myself.
Probably £20k in parts
Crate motor £7000
Gearbox £2000
Bellhousing, clutch and flywheel £2000
ECU and loom £2000
Exhaust £2000
Bits and bobs (mounts, fuel lines, e-throttle pedal etc etc)
But I d need to buy all this stuff anyway if going for an AJP.
I reckon it s probably cost neutral. And the LS ought to be a lot more reliable, will easily make more power if needed (I doubt it will be).
I have a complete running AJP with gearbox, even the loom and ECU. Would sell it all for 15kI was 99% decided on the LS route but am having nagging doubts.
The only consolation is that putting big capacity American v8 motors into TVR chassis is part of TVR history. At least that is what I tell myself.
Probably £20k in parts
Crate motor £7000
Gearbox £2000
Bellhousing, clutch and flywheel £2000
ECU and loom £2000
Exhaust £2000
Bits and bobs (mounts, fuel lines, e-throttle pedal etc etc)
But I d need to buy all this stuff anyway if going for an AJP.
I reckon it s probably cost neutral. And the LS ought to be a lot more reliable, will easily make more power if needed (I doubt it will be).
So that is,
AJP Engine
Throttle bodies
Alternator
Injectors
Wiring loom
ECU
Flywheel
Clutch
Bell Housing
Gearbox
Literally bolt it in and off you go
Consider the zf 8hp70 box if going down the LS route. The Turbolamik TCU has changed the game with these boxes, Keep the clutch pedal for virtual clutch dump or trans brake, run multi modes,etc. You would half your trans, bellhousing, clutch budget. No need to change to an e accelerator pedal using a Honda hybrid wire cable to dbw TB sensor.
v8sag said:
Consider the zf 8hp70 box if going down the LS route. The Turbolamik TCU has changed the game with these boxes, Keep the clutch pedal for virtual clutch dump or trans brake, run multi modes,etc. You would half your trans, bellhousing, clutch budget. No need to change to an e accelerator pedal using a Honda hybrid wire cable to dbw TB sensor.
Thanks for the suggestion and I know it’s a great gearbox (got one in my Ineos) but definitely not what i want in the tvr. Has to be a Manuel, que? Check this video out.
I know the guy that re-engined the Cerbera. He bought an LS3 (?) from the US from a crashed Corvette in about 2015. the total outlay for him at the time was about £3K, including taxes, shipping and hiring a van to collect engine from Lowestoft.
He installed the engine himself, used the supplied loom and ECU to connect electrics. He added the 'charger later and started playing with pulley wheel sizes for more boost.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo...
To say the Ferrari owner was surprised was an understatement - - and more than a little miffed!
But, as the Cerb' owner said, if you do the arithmetic, the power to weight is in the favour of the TVR.
Nick
I know the guy that re-engined the Cerbera. He bought an LS3 (?) from the US from a crashed Corvette in about 2015. the total outlay for him at the time was about £3K, including taxes, shipping and hiring a van to collect engine from Lowestoft.
He installed the engine himself, used the supplied loom and ECU to connect electrics. He added the 'charger later and started playing with pulley wheel sizes for more boost.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo...
To say the Ferrari owner was surprised was an understatement - - and more than a little miffed!
But, as the Cerb' owner said, if you do the arithmetic, the power to weight is in the favour of the TVR.
Nick
h of a job but a good feeling of achievement 
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