Audi A4 (B5) 2.8 30v Quattro Avant
Discussion
Hello everyone, long time lurker on here but thought I'd make a forum thread for a recent purchase of mine that I've been enjoying so far.
I'm a 22 year old student with a life-long car obsession. In fact, obsessed is putting it rather lightly to be honest
- Though within that I do have a a fairly niche interest of late 90s/early 00s Audis such as the B5 A4, C5 A6/Allroad, D2 A8 & 8L A3
I recently sold my second ever car, which was a 1.8 non-turbo B5 A4. I absolutely loved it, but being a saloon without a folding rear seat option, it wasn't the most practical and it didn't really have much of a power reserve for when I needed to overtake or get moving quickly. So when searching for a replacement, I wanted a more powerful engine, estate body, oh, and leather seats would be a bonus.
Then I saw this one for sale in the centre of London. Owned in the same family since it was 3 years old, ex-company car and -FULL- service history with some eye-watering bills in there, including a recent full replacement of the ABS system. The car was up for a little more than I wanted to pay, but I managed to get a fair amount off after convincing the owner I would take care of it.
Having put over 1200 miles on it so far, I can definitely say its a lovely car. Drives beautifully, very smooth V6 engine and the Quattro system and optional factory sport suspension make it a surprisingly good handler. On the motorway it comes into its own and just eats up the miles (and, unfortunately, fuel too...)
The colour is called 'Ming Blue' and its the sort of colour that only really looks good under the bright lights of a petrol station forecourt. Most of the time it looks fairly anonymous. I used to own a C5 A6 in special order Nogaro Blue and that was a much nicer colour - though after a thorough clean and polish it is growing on me.
Spec wise, its very high. As the first owner was a managing director for PwC, he clearly went ham with the options list. Pearlescent paint, Xenon lights with washer jets, BOSE sound system, Heated sports leather seats with centre arm rest in addition to all the kit you got as standard on the 2.8 models. (There weren't really trim levels as such. Aside from SE spec, It was based more on what drivetrain configuration you went for)
It's not without its faults however. I'm starting to work through them all, having already replaced the coolant temp sensor, PCV system, new undertray, repaired the sagging headliner and done an oil and filter change (dead easy to do on the 2.8).
Jobs left to do include: Replacing the stuck open thermostat (this should noticeably improve MPG), replacing the rusty front wings, new valve cover gaskets, A/C re-gas, replace the radio as the volume knob has a mind of its own and replace the door bottom weather strips and a few other bits and pieces. Oh yeah, and a new clutch as its done 140k and definitely feels like its on borrowed time...
I'm a big fan of OEM+ upgrades, and there's no shortage of them for a B5. So far I've installed a VW Beetle sunglass holder to replace the driver's grab handle, facelift C5 A6 silver ring surrounds for the gauges as well as a B5.5 Passat power steering fluid reservoir surround.
I'm a 22 year old student with a life-long car obsession. In fact, obsessed is putting it rather lightly to be honest
- Though within that I do have a a fairly niche interest of late 90s/early 00s Audis such as the B5 A4, C5 A6/Allroad, D2 A8 & 8L A3I recently sold my second ever car, which was a 1.8 non-turbo B5 A4. I absolutely loved it, but being a saloon without a folding rear seat option, it wasn't the most practical and it didn't really have much of a power reserve for when I needed to overtake or get moving quickly. So when searching for a replacement, I wanted a more powerful engine, estate body, oh, and leather seats would be a bonus.
Then I saw this one for sale in the centre of London. Owned in the same family since it was 3 years old, ex-company car and -FULL- service history with some eye-watering bills in there, including a recent full replacement of the ABS system. The car was up for a little more than I wanted to pay, but I managed to get a fair amount off after convincing the owner I would take care of it.
Having put over 1200 miles on it so far, I can definitely say its a lovely car. Drives beautifully, very smooth V6 engine and the Quattro system and optional factory sport suspension make it a surprisingly good handler. On the motorway it comes into its own and just eats up the miles (and, unfortunately, fuel too...)
The colour is called 'Ming Blue' and its the sort of colour that only really looks good under the bright lights of a petrol station forecourt. Most of the time it looks fairly anonymous. I used to own a C5 A6 in special order Nogaro Blue and that was a much nicer colour - though after a thorough clean and polish it is growing on me.
Spec wise, its very high. As the first owner was a managing director for PwC, he clearly went ham with the options list. Pearlescent paint, Xenon lights with washer jets, BOSE sound system, Heated sports leather seats with centre arm rest in addition to all the kit you got as standard on the 2.8 models. (There weren't really trim levels as such. Aside from SE spec, It was based more on what drivetrain configuration you went for)
It's not without its faults however. I'm starting to work through them all, having already replaced the coolant temp sensor, PCV system, new undertray, repaired the sagging headliner and done an oil and filter change (dead easy to do on the 2.8).
Jobs left to do include: Replacing the stuck open thermostat (this should noticeably improve MPG), replacing the rusty front wings, new valve cover gaskets, A/C re-gas, replace the radio as the volume knob has a mind of its own and replace the door bottom weather strips and a few other bits and pieces. Oh yeah, and a new clutch as its done 140k and definitely feels like its on borrowed time...
I'm a big fan of OEM+ upgrades, and there's no shortage of them for a B5. So far I've installed a VW Beetle sunglass holder to replace the driver's grab handle, facelift C5 A6 silver ring surrounds for the gauges as well as a B5.5 Passat power steering fluid reservoir surround.
Looks really rather good. Looking forward to seeing more updates.
Mines on original clutch i believe (shoddy service history) and am up to 161k now. Taking it from 118k. It's always been a high pedal and hasn't changed much if at all. Probably worth just leaving alone till it starts slipping.
Mines on original clutch i believe (shoddy service history) and am up to 161k now. Taking it from 118k. It's always been a high pedal and hasn't changed much if at all. Probably worth just leaving alone till it starts slipping.
Thanks to @Scoobydrew95 for letting me know about the injector upgrade for the 2.8 30v V6 engines. As you can see in the photo the new ones have 4 nozzles as opposed to the original Audi ones, which are 2. This has made a huge difference, where I was previously barely scraping 32 MPG on a long motorway run, I'm now getting anywhere from 41-45 MPG (verified!). Urban town driving has also improved as well, gaining around 7 MPG from what I was getting previously. In just a couple of fill-ups, these injectors have already paid for themselves. The job itself wasn't too bad either. Took approximately 1 hour from start to finish. In fact most of that was spent cleaning where the old injectors sat.
Next on the list was the dreaded thermostat. The engine was just not getting up to temperature. In traffic and around town it would nudge 80C, but on the motorway the needle would slowly drop back down to around 70c. I've done numerous thermostats before, but when designing this engine, VAG in their infinite wisdom decided to place the thermostat BEHIND the timing belt. This meant putting the car in 'service position' which required the removal of the entire front end. After that it was a matter of removing the timing covers and loosening off the timing belt. Undo the thermostat housing and pop in a new one. From start to finish this job took around 4 hours. Wasn't as awful as I was expecting, but a ball ache nonetheless.
Perhaps the most common issue with the old 5v VAG engines is top end leaks, especially around the valve covers. Tell tale signs are oily valve covers and an unpleasant smell of burning oil as it drips on to the hot exhaust manifold heat shields. In severe cases you'll be forever topping up the oil. Thankfully, this is a relatively straightforward issue to fix (at least on the 2.8 and by extension, the 2.4). It pays to buy quality gaskets as its the sort of job you should never need to revisit after doing it once. I used Elring gaskets and they've been fantastic so far with no leaks or sealant needed. I read conflicting opinions online as to whether gasket sealant is in fact needed, but if you clean the valve cover surface well and get rid of all the old gasket material you should have a perfect seal without the need for sealant. Make sure you torque the valve covers correctly and progressively tighten the nuts up in an X pattern with the middle ones torqued fully first.
Just about visible in the picture below, the middle spark plug is bathed in oil - a sure fire sign that the gasket has failed!
Next on the list was the dreaded thermostat. The engine was just not getting up to temperature. In traffic and around town it would nudge 80C, but on the motorway the needle would slowly drop back down to around 70c. I've done numerous thermostats before, but when designing this engine, VAG in their infinite wisdom decided to place the thermostat BEHIND the timing belt. This meant putting the car in 'service position' which required the removal of the entire front end. After that it was a matter of removing the timing covers and loosening off the timing belt. Undo the thermostat housing and pop in a new one. From start to finish this job took around 4 hours. Wasn't as awful as I was expecting, but a ball ache nonetheless.
Perhaps the most common issue with the old 5v VAG engines is top end leaks, especially around the valve covers. Tell tale signs are oily valve covers and an unpleasant smell of burning oil as it drips on to the hot exhaust manifold heat shields. In severe cases you'll be forever topping up the oil. Thankfully, this is a relatively straightforward issue to fix (at least on the 2.8 and by extension, the 2.4). It pays to buy quality gaskets as its the sort of job you should never need to revisit after doing it once. I used Elring gaskets and they've been fantastic so far with no leaks or sealant needed. I read conflicting opinions online as to whether gasket sealant is in fact needed, but if you clean the valve cover surface well and get rid of all the old gasket material you should have a perfect seal without the need for sealant. Make sure you torque the valve covers correctly and progressively tighten the nuts up in an X pattern with the middle ones torqued fully first.
Just about visible in the picture below, the middle spark plug is bathed in oil - a sure fire sign that the gasket has failed!
surrey03 said:
biggbn said:
What a lovely old car!!
why thank you - certainly looks better in photos than it does in real life. It's a work in progress.Scoobydrew95 said:
Good effort on the jobs. Not fancy doing the timing belt and water pump whilst you were there?
If you're still getting some burning smells of oil, probably be the cam seals at the back of the engine. Easy job just a bit hard to reach!
Thanks - the timing belt and water pump were done only about 10,000 miles ago back in 2021. Annoyingly they neglected to do the thermostat whilst they were at it too. Belt looked in good nick too so stuck it back on there.If you're still getting some burning smells of oil, probably be the cam seals at the back of the engine. Easy job just a bit hard to reach!
Heard about the cam seals and planned to do them if the smell was still there. Thankfully no need in this case as the new valve cover gaskets did the trick.
A man after my own heart!
I too have had a selection of the weird, but wonderful back-catalogue of Audi offerings - B5 A4 Avant 1.8T, C5 Allroad / S6, D2 A8.. this vintage of 4-ringer really gets under your skin if you'll let it / forgive its oddities. Styling and quality is fondly missed these days, so it's really nice to see a straight and well-kept one like yours here.
The B5 still has a widespread community, such is the regard for it in the many configurations they came in. Good for aftermarket and OEM+ as I'm sure you already know, which justifies the upkeep to a large extent.
I've got silly ambitions to find a 'project' S4 Avant to tinker with (butcher, neglect and probably regret), but in the meantime keep us posted on your progress and well done for doing the dirty bits with a good attitude.
I too have had a selection of the weird, but wonderful back-catalogue of Audi offerings - B5 A4 Avant 1.8T, C5 Allroad / S6, D2 A8.. this vintage of 4-ringer really gets under your skin if you'll let it / forgive its oddities. Styling and quality is fondly missed these days, so it's really nice to see a straight and well-kept one like yours here.
The B5 still has a widespread community, such is the regard for it in the many configurations they came in. Good for aftermarket and OEM+ as I'm sure you already know, which justifies the upkeep to a large extent.
I've got silly ambitions to find a 'project' S4 Avant to tinker with (butcher, neglect and probably regret), but in the meantime keep us posted on your progress and well done for doing the dirty bits with a good attitude.
Resolutionary said:
A man after my own heart!
I too have had a selection of the weird, but wonderful back-catalogue of Audi offerings - B5 A4 Avant 1.8T, C5 Allroad / S6, D2 A8.. this vintage of 4-ringer really gets under your skin if you'll let it / forgive its oddities. Styling and quality is fondly missed these days, so it's really nice to see a straight and well-kept one like yours here.
The B5 still has a widespread community, such is the regard for it in the many configurations they came in. Good for aftermarket and OEM+ as I'm sure you already know, which justifies the upkeep to a large extent.
I've got silly ambitions to find a 'project' S4 Avant to tinker with (butcher, neglect and probably regret), but in the meantime keep us posted on your progress and well done for doing the dirty bits with a good attitude.
Thanks for the kind words! This era of Audi was their first time trying to properly compete with Mercedes and BMW and all the better for it. They don't seem to be as desirable as BMWs of the era, but the flip side to that is you can get a C5 S6 for the price of a E39 530i. I'm not interested in post-wide mouth and Q range Audis. I think the brand lost some of its class after that. I'm dying to own a C5 Allroad, ideally the 2.7T as I wasn't a fan of the 2.5 V6 TDI I had in my C5 A6. Then again I'm not sure if I'm brave enough quite yet for a 25 year old BiTurbo with air suspension!I too have had a selection of the weird, but wonderful back-catalogue of Audi offerings - B5 A4 Avant 1.8T, C5 Allroad / S6, D2 A8.. this vintage of 4-ringer really gets under your skin if you'll let it / forgive its oddities. Styling and quality is fondly missed these days, so it's really nice to see a straight and well-kept one like yours here.
The B5 still has a widespread community, such is the regard for it in the many configurations they came in. Good for aftermarket and OEM+ as I'm sure you already know, which justifies the upkeep to a large extent.
I've got silly ambitions to find a 'project' S4 Avant to tinker with (butcher, neglect and probably regret), but in the meantime keep us posted on your progress and well done for doing the dirty bits with a good attitude.
I think B5 S4s have pretty much reached rock bottom now price wise. If you're after a project I'd go for it while you still can. I did consider one actually, but went for the 2.8 regular A4 as I thought it would be easier to keep on the road as a daily. B5 S4s can reach demented HP figures with correct tuning.
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