Introducing the "Stifler 644"
Discussion
Ok, following on from this thread:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I thought I would share with you a few details of my Hillclimb/Sprint/race/Road? project.
I have an old Formula Ford chassis which I will be cutting away everything after the roll hoop. A new rear chassis will be built around an Audi 1.8 turbo engine with a Quattro gearbox. This Audi transaxle will drive the centre axle of the car (do you see where I'm going?...) and the quattro output shaft will be joined to the quattro rear diff which will drive the rear axle.
That's right, a six wheeled, four wheel drive single seater.
So, that's the 6 and the first 4 sorted then, what about the last number in the "Stifler 644" designation?
Well, that will be 4 wheel steering. The rear axle will steer to stop the car ploughing straight on in the corners. If we did not do this, there would be double the rubber contact patch at the rear of the car trying to go in a straight line and the same amount at the front as you would have on a four wheeled car.
The idea will be to make the car have quite a short wheelbase from the front - centre axle. When we get the steering rear axle set up so that it will steer but not scrub the tyres, the car should act like a short wheelbase car in the twisties, and have the stability of a long wheelbase car at high speed. (Well, that's the theory.)
We have a pretty open design at the moment, so we don't even know if we will be having a transverse gearbox or longitudinal yet.
The chassis will be moving from my parents house to a workshop near me in a couple of weeks. Then the measuring can begin. Once we have decided on which gearbox to go for, we can (ideally) buy a rolled TT or an A4/6 and rob it of all the running gear that we will need.
There are a couple of things that (I believe) are unique to this vehicle and I would like to keep secret for the moment, but I will happily answer any other questions that you guys and girls have. (But please don't be offended if I say that I can't answer that particular question.)
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I thought I would share with you a few details of my Hillclimb/Sprint/race/Road? project.
I have an old Formula Ford chassis which I will be cutting away everything after the roll hoop. A new rear chassis will be built around an Audi 1.8 turbo engine with a Quattro gearbox. This Audi transaxle will drive the centre axle of the car (do you see where I'm going?...) and the quattro output shaft will be joined to the quattro rear diff which will drive the rear axle.
That's right, a six wheeled, four wheel drive single seater.
So, that's the 6 and the first 4 sorted then, what about the last number in the "Stifler 644" designation?
Well, that will be 4 wheel steering. The rear axle will steer to stop the car ploughing straight on in the corners. If we did not do this, there would be double the rubber contact patch at the rear of the car trying to go in a straight line and the same amount at the front as you would have on a four wheeled car.
The idea will be to make the car have quite a short wheelbase from the front - centre axle. When we get the steering rear axle set up so that it will steer but not scrub the tyres, the car should act like a short wheelbase car in the twisties, and have the stability of a long wheelbase car at high speed. (Well, that's the theory.)
We have a pretty open design at the moment, so we don't even know if we will be having a transverse gearbox or longitudinal yet.
The chassis will be moving from my parents house to a workshop near me in a couple of weeks. Then the measuring can begin. Once we have decided on which gearbox to go for, we can (ideally) buy a rolled TT or an A4/6 and rob it of all the running gear that we will need.
There are a couple of things that (I believe) are unique to this vehicle and I would like to keep secret for the moment, but I will happily answer any other questions that you guys and girls have. (But please don't be offended if I say that I can't answer that particular question.)
If you are remotely interested in my inspiration for this project, please look up pictures of the March 2-4-0 and the Williams FW07D
This site gives some information as to the (F1) history of the concept.
http://forix.autosport.com/8w/sixwheelers.html
This site gives some information as to the (F1) history of the concept.
http://forix.autosport.com/8w/sixwheelers.html
Edited by stifler on Saturday 18th July 00:35
matc said:
Amazing project idea! I hope you pull it off. Any idea on a time-scale for it?
Cheers for the positive feedback guys. Time-scale... Well the good part is that the tub is already designed and made. The bad bit is that nothing else is designed made or bought. I have a Formula Ford engine to rebuild over the winter (for my race car) and I have a 9 month old daughter who takes up quite a lot of my time (but I don't resent that). So, realistically I think prototype bodged to run for initial testing in 18 months - 2 years would be about right. The upside is I won't be working on it alone, so there will be help and technical support every step of the way.
I am pretty much decided on a transverse engine installation. It will make the car shorter overall which will help the concept work better, but the turbo will be right behind the drivers head.
1 turbo blanket please!!!
skylinecrazy said:
Totally random question here, but say if you did enter hillclimbs/sprints what class would it be eligible for?
Probably be massively outclassed in the unlimited class, or whatever class the top boys run in. It's not really about that though. It's more about proving a concept and making a car that is fascinating to watch at work.I think I have thought of a good way to link up the rear steering with the front that is very lightweight. So more details are falling into place now.
stifler said:
skylinecrazy said:
Totally random question here, but say if you did enter hillclimbs/sprints what class would it be eligible for?
Probably be massively outclassed in the unlimited class, or whatever class the top boys run in. It's not really about that though. It's more about proving a concept and making a car that is fascinating to watch at work.I think I have thought of a good way to link up the rear steering with the front that is very lightweight. So more details are falling into place now. Cheers 
I'll be getting pictures of the tub soon. Showing before and after the chop!
it has to get shortened to fit in my mates van anyway. Then the next set of pictures should be of a scrap TT or S3 getting robbed of it's running gear. Then there will be pics of some blokes measuring stuff and scratching their heads.
I'll be getting pictures of the tub soon. Showing before and after the chop!
it has to get shortened to fit in my mates van anyway. Then the next set of pictures should be of a scrap TT or S3 getting robbed of it's running gear. Then there will be pics of some blokes measuring stuff and scratching their heads. Ok, the layout has pretty much been finalised (barring measuring the tub and prospective engines and realising that I just won't fit).
I had a thought, would an audi gearbox for a diesel car have a taller final drive ratio? (Any PH experts about?) It would certainly be stronger and handle some more power. We are aiming for 300hp to start with. I am going to be using smaller wheels (13 or 14 inch) than you would find on a standard audi, so I would like to do what I can, to get the final drive as tall as possible so I don't have mental acceleration up to 120 mph but no more speed.
So, if I'm right about the taller ratio, we will be looking for a written off TDI A3 Quattro to rob it's running gear.
The shopping list is growing at an alarming rate!!!
I had a thought, would an audi gearbox for a diesel car have a taller final drive ratio? (Any PH experts about?) It would certainly be stronger and handle some more power. We are aiming for 300hp to start with. I am going to be using smaller wheels (13 or 14 inch) than you would find on a standard audi, so I would like to do what I can, to get the final drive as tall as possible so I don't have mental acceleration up to 120 mph but no more speed.
So, if I'm right about the taller ratio, we will be looking for a written off TDI A3 Quattro to rob it's running gear.
The shopping list is growing at an alarming rate!!!
grimfandango said:
why dont you put 4 wheels at the front as well!!! 
like that F1 car with the tiny wheels at the front (cant remember the name!).
Tyrrell P34.like that F1 car with the tiny wheels at the front (cant remember the name!).
That was for aero dynamic effect (to reduce drag and frontal area of the car) that is not the objective of this car. The concept of this car is to have more rubber at the drive wheels in contact with the ground whilst still being controllable. The more contact patch with reduced drag was pretty much the reason for the March car being prototyped. The Williams car was alot cleverer in it's interperetation of the regulations. The Link that I put in above explains it far better than my sausage fingers could.
This picture is of a Hawke DL11. This is what I believe my chassis started out like. All Hawke chassis had some common features and mine retains these.
The body work that I have for the car is very similar to this Hawke DL15. But my car has sidepods for radiators to be mounted both sides.
I believe that the rear end of the chassis has been chopped about to fit the rear suspension components of a car like this Hawke DL17.
The rear of the car will be totally chopped away back to the rollover hoop. So this rear suspension is kind of irrelevant.
NOTE: none of the above cars are mine, they are just similar models shown for comparison until I can provide pictures of my own car.
The body work that I have for the car is very similar to this Hawke DL15. But my car has sidepods for radiators to be mounted both sides.
I believe that the rear end of the chassis has been chopped about to fit the rear suspension components of a car like this Hawke DL17.
The rear of the car will be totally chopped away back to the rollover hoop. So this rear suspension is kind of irrelevant.
NOTE: none of the above cars are mine, they are just similar models shown for comparison until I can provide pictures of my own car.
I was lieing in bed last night (bear with me on this) thinking about the steering rear axle and how it will be adding weight and will be quite complex to link to the steering rack at the front.
Whilst I was thinking about it, I worked out a way of making the rear axle steer passively. I think I will design this into the rear frame as well as the steering rack mounts. That way, if the passive system works, there is no need for a comlicated system that will do the same job but has more weight.
Sorry for using this thread as a place to put my brainstorming. If it is here it is all in one place rather than sketches in various books lieing around the place.
Whilst I was thinking about it, I worked out a way of making the rear axle steer passively. I think I will design this into the rear frame as well as the steering rack mounts. That way, if the passive system works, there is no need for a comlicated system that will do the same job but has more weight.
Sorry for using this thread as a place to put my brainstorming. If it is here it is all in one place rather than sketches in various books lieing around the place.
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