A question for early 996 owners ?
Discussion
Ive been out and looked at a couple of examples in my 12K budget over the past few weeks.
What I would like to know from anyone who is running an early example of a 3.4/3.6 is how do you think they are standing up to the test of time ?
Lets set any engine failures aside for this discusion and talk about how the interior is fairing, the leather seats, the carpets, the dash switches etc. Is the paintwork still looking good or fading ? Do / should they still feel like a prestige car at 12 to 15 years old ?
Has anyone seen any rust appearing ? Should I expect the dampers to be way past their best with 80K on the clock ?
Ive been to see 2 convertibles and I did think the leather seats looked a little "tired", not as good as my 13 year old Audi convertible, but I think they had the "ruffled" leather which may not age so well (and yes I know they can be revived with a little TLC)
Your advice and opinions will help me when Im out looking next.
Thanks
What I would like to know from anyone who is running an early example of a 3.4/3.6 is how do you think they are standing up to the test of time ?
Lets set any engine failures aside for this discusion and talk about how the interior is fairing, the leather seats, the carpets, the dash switches etc. Is the paintwork still looking good or fading ? Do / should they still feel like a prestige car at 12 to 15 years old ?
Has anyone seen any rust appearing ? Should I expect the dampers to be way past their best with 80K on the clock ?
Ive been to see 2 convertibles and I did think the leather seats looked a little "tired", not as good as my 13 year old Audi convertible, but I think they had the "ruffled" leather which may not age so well (and yes I know they can be revived with a little TLC)
Your advice and opinions will help me when Im out looking next.
Thanks
Edited by pcn1 on Tuesday 19th November 16:51
Any 12+ year old car will have some wear n tear, but on the whole I think that Porsche's are well put together. The paintwork on my 2002 car is excellent, a few light marks, but apart from the front bumper is original. The seats are also good with some marks on the drivers side bolster, largely due to the previous lady owner who had the seat a long way forward, so getting in and out tended to scuff. All switches work as they should and mechanically it is fine. Look out for one in the condition you expect, there are plenty out there for sale. Minty ones are available, but expect to kiss a few frogs before the princess appears.
I've had my '99 996 3.4 since April this year. Winter may be hard on it, but so far it's done well. To answer your questions:
The interior is a massive talking point with many people unkeen, and therefore probably not going to give you a balanced view, but I like it.. I've got the full leather in a light tan colour and it's survived well. I've given it a few leather treatments and it's looking good. There's a few scuffs, but the seats (non ruffle) have aged very well. The leather covered handbrake lever looks slightly tired, but a leather treatment made it look much better.
I'm going to keep putting soaking it in the treatment and imagine it's going to keep looking good.
Still looking good. There's some scratches, obviously, but the paint itself ages well when your neighbours aren't reversing into the car. Mine is ocean blue and looks lovely. I've recently had the front bumper resprayed and it didn't show off faded wings, doors, etc.
pcn1 said:
talk about how the interior is fairing, the leather seats, the carpets, the dash switches etc.
The interior is a massive talking point with many people unkeen, and therefore probably not going to give you a balanced view, but I like it.. I've got the full leather in a light tan colour and it's survived well. I've given it a few leather treatments and it's looking good. There's a few scuffs, but the seats (non ruffle) have aged very well. The leather covered handbrake lever looks slightly tired, but a leather treatment made it look much better.
I'm going to keep putting soaking it in the treatment and imagine it's going to keep looking good.
pcn1 said:
Is the paintwork still looking good or fading ?
Still looking good. There's some scratches, obviously, but the paint itself ages well when your neighbours aren't reversing into the car. Mine is ocean blue and looks lovely. I've recently had the front bumper resprayed and it didn't show off faded wings, doors, etc.
pcn1 said:
Do / should they still feel like a prestige car at 12 to 15 years old ?
It does to me 
pcn1 said:
Has anyone seen any rust appearing ? Should I expect the dampers to be way past their best with 80K on the clock ?
No rust on mine but the dampeners are possibly starting to feel old. For the last 2 years my car had very little use, so I imagine that the dampeners haven't reacted well to the me taking them over speedbumps daily. Apparently there's a bushing repair kit that I may look into. My car has 78000 on the clock. pcn1 said:
Ive been to see 2 convertibles and I did think the leather seats looked a little "tired", not as good as my 13 year old Audi convertible, but I think they had the "ruffled" leather which may not age so well (and yes I know they can be revived with a little TLC)
As above, mine are looking pretty good, but there's a lot of variety out there. The driver's bolster was looking creased on mine, but the leather goop made that look much better. I'm also very happy that I got a light colour interior - it's initially a bit of a shock, but I think it's so much nicer than the usual black or dark grey. Of course, those colours are going to age better.Things that I've had worked on: Rusted exhaust mufflers replaced (largely for vanity), radiator replacement, coil packs and a hugely expensive Litronic headlight bulb. I paid about £12k for it and these items have added to that purchase price. I'd say it was money well spend, however.
pcn1 said:
What I would like to know from anyone who is running an early example of a 3.4/3.6 is how do you think they are standing up to the test of time ?
I've had my '99 C2 for 6 years now, taking it from 48k to 92k miles. I replaced the dampers at 55k as one had failed plus it was sitting down at the rear (also the springs as they had settled to give the car a nose up stance) and have had to also work my way around the various bushes and linkages (I'm actually off to pick the car up in a minute from having a front lower track control arm replaced, it had previously been rebushed too).Generally I've found the cost of ownership has increased (though I guess depreciation has decreased proportionally over the same period). I've not got any rust on the visible bodywork but have just had exhaust fixing nuts replaced which had literally rusted away. Likewise the manifold looks on its last legs so I'm planning for the replacement of that (a major labour job due to need to drill out most of the studs from what I've read).
I've also just spent a little bit sorting out an electrical issue that was eventually traced to a corroded earthing lead.
I have a black interior and i think that has worn very well considering the mileage and the fact that it's very much treated as a daily driver. The leather is good though the steering wheel is nice and smooth now (as you'd expect). carpets are all good though the plastic seat backs mark easily. My radio failed which was a pain as Beckers aren't made any more and I don't like aftermarket but I got lucky with another owner selling their old unit due to an upgrade.
I guess it's fairly obvious but the early 996's are getting on a bit now so these kinds of jobs will rack up and the parts (and often labour) will generally cost more than on another marque. But I honestly couldn't think of a car that I would replace it with - even if I switched to a 997 I'd be just moving back up the depreciation curve and with an unknown quantity and I've driven several (plus a Cayman) and not felt I was missing out by running an older car.
Mine's a 1997/8 (can't remember, don't care anyway!) C2 manual with just 109,000 miles and it still looks, runs and drives very well indeed. This is partly due to having had continuous proper maintenance - it has never once been in the hands of an owner who scrimped due to only wanting to own the car for a few months, or not being able to afford to look after it.
The leather's nephrite (green) which is quite a light colour and was looking a little tired (better than you'd expect for a 15 year old car, but not as nice as the rest of it) so I spent £20 on a pot of colour from Dynamix Dyes and it's looking great again. The only sign of wear is on the Tequipment gear lever, but as they're about £350 (
) to replace I'm happy to live with the "patina" 
Some corrosion to the area around the door lock latch plates (on the B pillar) isn't unusual, and I think around the front edge of the sills/bottom of the rear of the front arches, otherwise they're very good indeed.
The frog/prince analogy is exactly how I'd describe the process of finding a good one - worth the effort though
The leather's nephrite (green) which is quite a light colour and was looking a little tired (better than you'd expect for a 15 year old car, but not as nice as the rest of it) so I spent £20 on a pot of colour from Dynamix Dyes and it's looking great again. The only sign of wear is on the Tequipment gear lever, but as they're about £350 (
) to replace I'm happy to live with the "patina" Some corrosion to the area around the door lock latch plates (on the B pillar) isn't unusual, and I think around the front edge of the sills/bottom of the rear of the front arches, otherwise they're very good indeed.
The frog/prince analogy is exactly how I'd describe the process of finding a good one - worth the effort though
My Boxster is pretty much the same interior minus the back seats. Mine is a 2000 on 85K & looks very good. The centre console scratches very easily & shows the marks. There is some wear on door handles etc. but mine isn't bad. My interior s Savannah & the seats look dirty which I think is down to a lack of cleaning by a previous owner. I will get it redyed at some point.
Looking at the rest of the TIPEC group that I'm RO for then we have a Green & a Grey interior on early 996s & both look very good. I think both are around the 50K mark.
Outside on all 3 looks great, no rust. The front stone chips easily due to the shape but a front respray isn't a fortune. Looking underneath with it on a ramp some of the edges are a little rust where the road grit has blasted them & I'll sort mine out in the spring.
Looking at the rest of the TIPEC group that I'm RO for then we have a Green & a Grey interior on early 996s & both look very good. I think both are around the 50K mark.
Outside on all 3 looks great, no rust. The front stone chips easily due to the shape but a front respray isn't a fortune. Looking underneath with it on a ramp some of the edges are a little rust where the road grit has blasted them & I'll sort mine out in the spring.
Thanks for the feedback guys.
I had a 944 a few years ago that was 14 years old when I bought it. Well looked after and very clean. It always felt very solid, like the German cars of that era did.
Without getting into the "they don't make'em like they used too" debate, I'd hope a 996 that was cared for would still look and feel like it was worth the £70k the original owner paid for it. Yes I'd expect wear and tear, but a premium car should still hold up well (in my mind anyway!)
I had a 944 a few years ago that was 14 years old when I bought it. Well looked after and very clean. It always felt very solid, like the German cars of that era did.
Without getting into the "they don't make'em like they used too" debate, I'd hope a 996 that was cared for would still look and feel like it was worth the £70k the original owner paid for it. Yes I'd expect wear and tear, but a premium car should still hold up well (in my mind anyway!)
Mines a 2000 C2, bought with 57k on 7 years ago, now on 138k miles.
Engine is still a joy... pulls well from low down, will blast from 80-130 easy as pie, and makes a lovely noise with a by-pass exhaust.
It's had some work done over the past couple of years as you'd expect - rads, 4 bottom arms and fuel pump were the only bigges though, until it needed a transaxle re-build late last year, at which time it had a new clutch - I believe it was previously on it's original.
Mechanically, it could do with the suspension refreshing, and the top mounts definitely need doing, but that will get sorted this year.
Exterior paint (silver) is very solid. It needs both bumpers painting, but polishes up very nicely otherwise.
The wheels desperately need a refurb but probably true of any car of its age/mileage.
Interior (metropole blue) is patchy on materials (the indicators in particular, feel flimsy), but other than a few scuffs it again polishes up really well.
Wheels refurbed and bumpers painted, a good clean inside and out, and you'd never know it had done 138k.
After 7 years and 80k miles I still love driving it.
Engine is still a joy... pulls well from low down, will blast from 80-130 easy as pie, and makes a lovely noise with a by-pass exhaust.
It's had some work done over the past couple of years as you'd expect - rads, 4 bottom arms and fuel pump were the only bigges though, until it needed a transaxle re-build late last year, at which time it had a new clutch - I believe it was previously on it's original.
Mechanically, it could do with the suspension refreshing, and the top mounts definitely need doing, but that will get sorted this year.
Exterior paint (silver) is very solid. It needs both bumpers painting, but polishes up very nicely otherwise.
The wheels desperately need a refurb but probably true of any car of its age/mileage.
Interior (metropole blue) is patchy on materials (the indicators in particular, feel flimsy), but other than a few scuffs it again polishes up really well.
Wheels refurbed and bumpers painted, a good clean inside and out, and you'd never know it had done 138k.
After 7 years and 80k miles I still love driving it.
Just bought a 1998 3.4 996 C2, which (including a hefty 'restorative' service) cost just over £12k
The car seems to have faired very well in terms of both interior and exterior ageing; washing it yesterday for the first time I was pleased at how clean it was. Better than the 944 turbo I bought 10 years ago at about the same age.
The 996 needed brake lines throughout - including the one running across the top of the gearbox. And whilst the gearbox was off: IMS, RMS, clutch, DMF, release fork, slave cylinder...
The car seems to have faired very well in terms of both interior and exterior ageing; washing it yesterday for the first time I was pleased at how clean it was. Better than the 944 turbo I bought 10 years ago at about the same age.
The 996 needed brake lines throughout - including the one running across the top of the gearbox. And whilst the gearbox was off: IMS, RMS, clutch, DMF, release fork, slave cylinder...
They are certainly not impervious to rust. Mine is a '98 at about 120K and a couple of months ago I had to have all of the arches repainted due to corrosion showing through the paint.
I bought the car in April this year. In the 12 months prior to me buying it, the car did no more than about 800 miles and was stored in an underground car park. I think the damp conditions down there may have been responsible for the problems in my car, but if you are buying a 996 I'd urge you to check for rust around the arches, and especially around/behind the rear mud flap.
That said, I also had the bonnet and front bumper sprayed and the sills & doors painted to make sure the arch repairs blended in correctly. £800 all in and the car looked immaculate again when I picked it up.
The interior is absolutely fine. The seats need feeding regularly to keep them supple, but that's the same in any old car. I've dyed them a couple of times with Scuffmaster and switched from a cream cleaner to Lazy Leather which just hydrates the leather. Nothing to it now; they just need a quick wipe down every now and then. As mentioned above, the rear of the seats are very prone to wear; mine need replacing/respraying. The foam in the seats is starting to fall apart; I can see foam "powder" around the driver's seat rails. I'll probably have the foam replaced at some point and may get the seat backs covered in leather at the same time.
Apart from that, all switches and controls work perfectly. The seat heaters are still excellent. I've got the usual rattle in the passenger door which I'll get sorted at some point. I've recently started thoroughly cleaning around the instrument panel with IPA and it's coming up like new again.
All in all, I think the car is holding up nicely.
I bought the car in April this year. In the 12 months prior to me buying it, the car did no more than about 800 miles and was stored in an underground car park. I think the damp conditions down there may have been responsible for the problems in my car, but if you are buying a 996 I'd urge you to check for rust around the arches, and especially around/behind the rear mud flap.
That said, I also had the bonnet and front bumper sprayed and the sills & doors painted to make sure the arch repairs blended in correctly. £800 all in and the car looked immaculate again when I picked it up.
The interior is absolutely fine. The seats need feeding regularly to keep them supple, but that's the same in any old car. I've dyed them a couple of times with Scuffmaster and switched from a cream cleaner to Lazy Leather which just hydrates the leather. Nothing to it now; they just need a quick wipe down every now and then. As mentioned above, the rear of the seats are very prone to wear; mine need replacing/respraying. The foam in the seats is starting to fall apart; I can see foam "powder" around the driver's seat rails. I'll probably have the foam replaced at some point and may get the seat backs covered in leather at the same time.
Apart from that, all switches and controls work perfectly. The seat heaters are still excellent. I've got the usual rattle in the passenger door which I'll get sorted at some point. I've recently started thoroughly cleaning around the instrument panel with IPA and it's coming up like new again.
All in all, I think the car is holding up nicely.
Mine is a 2003 996 C2 Tip. I went for the simplest car with the lowest mileage I could find. So far so good. Also check the engine number to see if it matches the year of the car. Mine has an engine made in 2006 which was replaced under warranty (The letters AT within the number)
Many service items are very easy like the air filter, oil change and filter, cabin filter and fluid checking. Brakes are also pretty straightforward together with the serpentine drive belt. Watch out for the coolant reservoir as these tend to fail on earlier cars and also the air oil separator which is a pig to replace. Plugs last a long time so check that they have been changed and you might be right for a fair mileage yet.
Look out for the air-con condensers as these seem to leak through not being cleaned out. After market ones are about £50 from CoolpartsUK.
These cars often have after market wheels which can be the wrong size or offset together with wrong size tyres. The handbook gives the correct options for this stuff. But if you have a car in mind there are many on this site who will give you the correct info
Get an independent inspection done for about £200 it will help you to decide.
Happy hunting
H
Many service items are very easy like the air filter, oil change and filter, cabin filter and fluid checking. Brakes are also pretty straightforward together with the serpentine drive belt. Watch out for the coolant reservoir as these tend to fail on earlier cars and also the air oil separator which is a pig to replace. Plugs last a long time so check that they have been changed and you might be right for a fair mileage yet.
Look out for the air-con condensers as these seem to leak through not being cleaned out. After market ones are about £50 from CoolpartsUK.
These cars often have after market wheels which can be the wrong size or offset together with wrong size tyres. The handbook gives the correct options for this stuff. But if you have a car in mind there are many on this site who will give you the correct info
Get an independent inspection done for about £200 it will help you to decide.
Happy hunting
H
If you have a 12k budget, buy a 10k car...
...you'll soon spend the 2k or more getting the car up to spec (as Kurt knows )
dampers, suspension arms, droplinks, aircon, radiators, clutch, brake pipes, exhausts, brake discs (these last 3 seem to be the things that corrode)
Look for receipts for as many of these as possible (or buy cheap)
...you'll soon spend the 2k or more getting the car up to spec (as Kurt knows
)dampers, suspension arms, droplinks, aircon, radiators, clutch, brake pipes, exhausts, brake discs (these last 3 seem to be the things that corrode)
Look for receipts for as many of these as possible (or buy cheap)
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think so - my bodyshop's view is that rust on Boxster / 996 is very unusual and if it is present, is usually a result of a poor repair. Of course people said that about 944's ten years ago & there are loads of rotten ones about now.- just remembered, my rear suspension adjusters are seized (boxster S) - add that to the list..
Is there any merit in getting some rust treatment into sills etc..? (and how would you do it?)
I do feel that the storage of the car in an underground car park is a contributing factor. It was being parked up for weeks on end, taken for a short run and then put back. Almost every time the previous owner was having it washed and it was going away wet.
However, unusual it may be, but not impossible...
However, unusual it may be, but not impossible...
Just back in mine after 2 months away. Still feels a quality product (it is a 99 c2).
Encouraging that at 14 years old it still runs well (touch wood).
Always surprises me how few people can still tell the difference in models. I would certainly rather spend my time and money learning and maintaining rather than buying new models.
Encouraging that at 14 years old it still runs well (touch wood).
Always surprises me how few people can still tell the difference in models. I would certainly rather spend my time and money learning and maintaining rather than buying new models.
I have a 2002 Targa which I bought in June last year year and overall, I'd say it's stood up well to 11 years of use but not as well as any Audi I've owned (I've had 5).
Suspension: I had one suspension bush changed last year, after which it all feels nice and tight.
Paint: There are signs that a couple of panels have been resprayed at some point but none of it looks faded or badly stone-chipped.
Rust: No sign of any, anywhere.
Interior: Looks a bit tired. Plastics are a bit scratched and the leather on the driver's seat side bolster is starting to crack. I think previous owners simply didn't take care of it.
The gear lever gaiter looks really tired, as does the plastic surround.
At the end of the day, you have to accept that a 996 interior will not bear comparison with an Audi of similar vintage but compared to most cars, the Porsche's interior feels decent quality and well put together.
Suspension: I had one suspension bush changed last year, after which it all feels nice and tight.
Paint: There are signs that a couple of panels have been resprayed at some point but none of it looks faded or badly stone-chipped.
Rust: No sign of any, anywhere.
Interior: Looks a bit tired. Plastics are a bit scratched and the leather on the driver's seat side bolster is starting to crack. I think previous owners simply didn't take care of it.
The gear lever gaiter looks really tired, as does the plastic surround.
At the end of the day, you have to accept that a 996 interior will not bear comparison with an Audi of similar vintage but compared to most cars, the Porsche's interior feels decent quality and well put together.
An early 3.4 is of course potentially 4 year older than an early 3.6 and there were some enhancements during that time including changes to the specificiation of the materials/components used. e.g. the earliest cars will have shiny buttons/control stalks and a monochrome matrix display whilst the later ones feature a soft touch finish in more places, electronic trunk release switches, a bi-colour matrix display (warnings are now red) and LED position/ambient lighting. The overall impact is that it is generally a nicer place to be. From the 3.6 onwards, you also get a glovebox.
I see mixed reports about the quality of the leather. Most 911s will have extended leather but in general, I find that these modern 'painted' leathers don't age particularly well and liquid leather etc isn't all that it's cracked [sic] up to be. Once the finish on a painted leather cracks, there isn't much that can be done. The so called re-connolising techniques that used to be common in the dancing donkey communities are basically purely cosmetic and might suit low milage applications but you will never restor the original factory finish. I'd like to see one with the more expensive 'natural' leather option. I would also like to have mine re-trimmed and I am surprised that there isn't a burgeoning industry out there selling reasonable quality ready made kits. Sending the car to a Southbound, or equivalent, to have a bespoke re-trim in leather would generate a bill in excess of half the value of an old 996!
Steering wheels can be replced or recovered quite cheaply though and this is a great way to trick yourself in to thinking that you are driving a new car ;-) It worked for me but the newness of the leather fades all to quickly...
Going beyond cosmetic interior trim issues, the self-cancelling indicator stalks that can and do fail and you need to take the wheel off and replace the whole assembly as opposed to just the wonky stalk which is painful.
You might find that microswitches in the door lock assemblies fail which require a door strip and rebuild with a new £l00+ lock assembly even though it's only a 50 pence microswitch that is to blame.
Finally (!) the Ignition Switch Steering Lock can pack up. This is an odd one as the first sign that it is failing is that it can be difficult to remove the key from the ignition lock barrel but the problem is invariably with the ignition switch which is fitted to the end of the steering column close to the pedals.
P.S. The best thing about the 9X6 interior IMO is that (if you don't have bose/NAV) you can roll without a centre console a la GT3.
I see mixed reports about the quality of the leather. Most 911s will have extended leather but in general, I find that these modern 'painted' leathers don't age particularly well and liquid leather etc isn't all that it's cracked [sic] up to be. Once the finish on a painted leather cracks, there isn't much that can be done. The so called re-connolising techniques that used to be common in the dancing donkey communities are basically purely cosmetic and might suit low milage applications but you will never restor the original factory finish. I'd like to see one with the more expensive 'natural' leather option. I would also like to have mine re-trimmed and I am surprised that there isn't a burgeoning industry out there selling reasonable quality ready made kits. Sending the car to a Southbound, or equivalent, to have a bespoke re-trim in leather would generate a bill in excess of half the value of an old 996!
Steering wheels can be replced or recovered quite cheaply though and this is a great way to trick yourself in to thinking that you are driving a new car ;-) It worked for me but the newness of the leather fades all to quickly...
Going beyond cosmetic interior trim issues, the self-cancelling indicator stalks that can and do fail and you need to take the wheel off and replace the whole assembly as opposed to just the wonky stalk which is painful.
You might find that microswitches in the door lock assemblies fail which require a door strip and rebuild with a new £l00+ lock assembly even though it's only a 50 pence microswitch that is to blame.
Finally (!) the Ignition Switch Steering Lock can pack up. This is an odd one as the first sign that it is failing is that it can be difficult to remove the key from the ignition lock barrel but the problem is invariably with the ignition switch which is fitted to the end of the steering column close to the pedals.
P.S. The best thing about the 9X6 interior IMO is that (if you don't have bose/NAV) you can roll without a centre console a la GT3.
Edited by MogulBoy on Thursday 21st November 14:51
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