Just discovered 997 has been clocked.

[911GEN1]

I bought a 997 Gen 1 from a main Porsche dealer in 2016, It's a 2008 plate. After having the car for only a couple of weeks problems started to appear. I took it a Porsche GB and over a year the car was in and out of the dealership having approximately £15,000 worth of major work done on it which was covered by the 2 year warranty, albeit not without a fight first to get the work approved. I bought the car from a main dealer thinking I was getting a well maintained and looked after car and for the peace of mind, how wrong was I. Having lost some faith in the car I decided to sell it. An independent dealer came to see the car and plugged in an Autologic diagnostics reader and said he couldn't buy the car because the DME was showing approximately 7,000 km more than the mileage on the dash so it had been clocked.
Appalled I spoke to Porsche who said that they don't ever check the DME because they don't have the equipment (really?) and that in their opinion, without even checking the car, it hasn't been clocked. I am now in an impossible position of not being able to sell the car as it's illegal to sell a clocked car!
I am interested to know if anyone has experienced anything like this with Porsche.

[Huskyman]

I would take it to an independent specialist to get this verified as you state the discrepancy is in km and not miles? That seems odd. Get the specialist to carry out an inspection on the car at the same time. I would be astonished if a franchised dealer didn’t have the equipment to interrogate the DME and the other modules on the car.. How on earth can they check for rev range over revs when inspecting a car?

[911GEN1]

It was an independent specialist who checked the car. He said the Autologic software he had was set in KM so he had to change my data to KM. I am also astonished that Porsche main dealer don't have the equipment to check the DME. They deal with vintage cars worth hundreds of thousands and they're saying they can't check the mileage! I just don't believe it.

[Cheib]

Nightmare! If it's illegal to sell a clocked car then surely you have a claim against them as long as you can prove it was clocked when they sold it.

I'd write to Porsche GB, see what they have to say on it. But I suspect you would be best going via the Ombudsman if you're getting nowhere

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/consumers

Looking at their website all the OPC's are members so have to follow the code of practice. Given the legality issue I would think they check every single car they take in!

[DuraAce]

911GEN1 said:

I am now in an impossible position of not being able to sell the car as it's illegal to sell a clocked car!

Garbage. That's simply not true.

You simply have to be honest about its mileage.

How many miles on it now? No chance its had a new speedo at some point in its life?

[911GEN1]

DuraAce said:

Garbage. That's simply not true.

You simply have to be honest about its mileage.

How many miles on it now? No chance its had a new speedo at some point in its life?

I have spoken to Porsche GB who are investigating but their initial response is that the car isn't clocked because they have VAL data which shows the mileage without any discrepancies but my point to them is that they need to check the DME data as the independent specialist did.
I could sell the car stating the real mileage but firstly who is going to want to buy a clocked car or if they do they're quite rightly going to reduce the price greatly. I have all the service history and no mention of a new speedo. It has 51,700 miles on clock.
I can't prove that Porsche dealership checked the DME data as they're saying they don't do this out of practice.

[mackay45]

It doesn't stack up that you'd be able to get £15k of warranty work on a clocked car (or that an OPC would sell such a car in the first place, then again they do make mistakes such as the infamous re-shelled GT3 RS which was sold as an approved used car).

Threads like this suggest they do check DME as a matter of practice:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Can you ask them to share all relevant paperwork they have for your car?

You could take the car into a Porsche dealership (not your regular one) and ask them to check your car over, or just get another inspection from an independent as part of a potential purchase.

I'd be more inclined to think the independent made a mistake at this stage, rather than that your car has anything wrong with it.

What was the £15k of warranty work if you don't mind me asking? Presuming a new engine?

[911GEN1]

I agree, that's what's so worrying. The car has been in and out of Porsche GB a number of times but they are saying that they wouldn't pick up on the discrepancy because they don't check DME data which I find astonishing.
I can't help thinking that the dealership I bought it from knew about the discrepancy but were desperate to get rid of the car as it had so many problems - needed new steering rack, new front struts, new rear tie rod, all cables from engine to battery, air conditioning, discs and pads and other smaller things.

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.

[GZP]

I can't really add much regarding the technicalities of the car etc but would urge that you move relatively quickly so as not to bar yourself from being able to take legal action. The statute of limitations can be a real b*stard.

[n12maser]

Wonder if you could get Reap Automotive to put it forward to the correct milleage, matching the read-out? That would be my first point of call.

[911GEN1]

Yes, that may be an option of Porsche arent going to do anything about it.

[Paynewright]

Are you sure the independant dealers equipment is accurate?

I think second opinion and take from there.

Ian

[911GEN1]

Pretty sure it’s accurate, he used Autologic and sells 200 Porsches a year. You woild think Porsche themselves could verify it!

[Filibuster]

Paynewright said:

Are you sure the independant dealers equipment is accurate?

I think second opinion and take from there.

Ian

^^ This

Why do you trust a random guy that plugs his computer into your car (and first changes your speedo from miles to km?!??) more than Porsche GB who know the car for quite some time?

Is it a known Porsche specialist or some shady backyard dealer? Was he haggling the price after he found out, or was he walking away?

ETA:

911GEN1 said:

Pretty sure it’s accurate, he used Autologic and sells 200 Porsches a year. You woild think Porsche themselves could verify it!

Ah, new info I haven't seen yet.
Ok, sounds like a legit dealer.... hmmm....

But still, who would clock a car for only 4k miles? Doesn't make sense, imho.
Might be worth checking the Airbag module, as this counts operating hours!

Edited by Filibuster on Tuesday 15th May 17:11

[nw942]

Filibuster said:

But still, who would clock a car for only 4k miles? Doesn't make sense, imho.

Excess mileage charge at the end of a PCP?

[Sa Calobra]

911GEN1 said:

Pretty sure it’s accurate, he used Autologic and sells 200 Porsches a year. You woild think Porsche themselves could verify it!

Why would anyone just shave 4,000miles off.

It doesn't make sense

[Cunno]

How do you know it's clocked? What data is being used engine hours divided by average speed doesn't match speedo?
it's an odd mileage to clock may have been done to avoid extra mileage on a contract hire by first owner

[Benrad]

Did you check the independent guy's maths? Sounds like a potential scam, convert km to miles badly to 'show' it's been clocked. With your reaction he's not lost anything but a lot of people at that point would ask "what would you give me for it as is?" To avoid the hassle of getting it fixed

[911GEN1]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

That's a very good point. that I hadn't considered. I still can't fathom though why Porsche GB won't check it.

[911GEN1]

Benrad said:

Did you check the independent guy's maths? Sounds like a potential scam, convert km to miles badly to 'show' it's been clocked. With your reaction he's not lost anything but a lot of people at that point would ask "what would you give me for it as is?" To avoid the hassle of getting it fixed

I don't think he was trying it on. As soon as he saw the discrepancy he walked away and said he couldn't buy the car. He's sent me images of the readings so I can send them to Porsche.