964 RS and Turbo
Discussion
Thinking of swapping my 968, for a 964. Now I not sure about putting 30kplus into an RS. However i noticed some of the turbo's have come down a little in recent years. I got a couple of questions and would appreciate any advice you can offer.
1. Is there a website with lots of advice on the 964 turbo/ 965? just general info, on things to look for, spec, etc.
2. What kind of money do high quality 964 replica's get? If you took the lightweight route, added the cage, did the power. How much less are we looking compared to the real thing? I am of course assuming that this has been done. My experiance with the 968 is that you can make a coupe into an amazing handling car by using modern equipment, one which outdoes the cs.
3. There was a picture on the wheels page with the 964 rs with orange wheels and sticker set. Does anyone have any more photos. That is absolutely stunning, it really swayed me away from getting a modern car. Very impressed with that.
4. Turbo or an RS replica???
Thanks guys
1. Is there a website with lots of advice on the 964 turbo/ 965? just general info, on things to look for, spec, etc.
2. What kind of money do high quality 964 replica's get? If you took the lightweight route, added the cage, did the power. How much less are we looking compared to the real thing? I am of course assuming that this has been done. My experiance with the 968 is that you can make a coupe into an amazing handling car by using modern equipment, one which outdoes the cs.
3. There was a picture on the wheels page with the 964 rs with orange wheels and sticker set. Does anyone have any more photos. That is absolutely stunning, it really swayed me away from getting a modern car. Very impressed with that.
4. Turbo or an RS replica???
Thanks guys
I find http://forums.rennlist.com/ helpful, it's mainly Americans so the prices they quote aren't in line with what we pay for stuff over here, but there is a lot of useful info in there. With regards to which car to choose I guess your just going to have to drive both, the turbo for me is the clear favourite as you have almost no limit to what power you can squeeze out of it depending on how deep your pockets are, the RS will cost less to maintain and will probably do everything you want it to, you are just going to have to drive both first, if you drive a standard turbo don't be put off by the lag, that is soon rectified with a modern ball race turbo and a new exhaust, throw in some head work etc and you'll soon have 450+ bhp. What are you going to do with the car?
In short, both are great cars. If you are going to spend a reasonable amount of time on the track then get the RS. If not get the Turbo. Both will but a bloody big smile on your face. Go and drive at least one of each, or get someone to take you for a spin. If you have any specific Turbo questions let me know.
lewistintin said:
2. What kind of money do high quality 964 replica's get? If you took the lightweight route, added the cage, did the power. How much less are we looking compared to the real thing? I am of course assuming that this has been done. My experiance with the 968 is that you can make a coupe into an amazing handling car by using modern equipment, one which outdoes the cs.
Not many decent reps about, all depends what they've done to it, just a set of springs & bucket seats do not an RS rep make, obviously worth a lot less & less desireable & smaller target market, but all depends on spec condition etc etc, but I'd perhaps point to a mileage/condition like for like diference of maybe £10-15k dif LHD, £20k+ for RHD
lewistintin said:
2. What kind of money do high quality 964 replica's get? If you took the lightweight route, added the cage, did the power. How much less are we looking compared to the real thing? I am of course assuming that this has been done. My experience with the 968 is that you can make a coupe into an amazing handling car by using modern equipment, one which outdoes the cs.
The though has often crossed my mind - 964 C2 to 964 RS.
Check my car in my profile.
964C2 - LHD - Cat by pass, G pipe, air filter - remapped to 300bhp by 9M and upgraded suspension.
It still has a long way to go and will never have a real RS badge. The other major things different to an RS is a Cage, RS flywheel and lightening the load.
I may be wrong, there may be more differences...........
Oh and mine cost £14k - so I have a bit of money left to spend towards the £30k of an good RS.
Tom
[quote=964Tom
I may be wrong, there may be more differences...........
[/quote]
+ magnesium wheels, LSD, difernt gear ratios, steel syncros, hard engine mounts, no power steering (LHD lwt) monoball top mounts, big brakes, front hubs, spring plates, front & rear bumpers, no sunroof, no rear wiper, no underseal, no headlight washers, no rear seats, lightweight loom, harder suspension bushes, lightweight glass, lightweight bonnet, wind up windows, etc.
I may be wrong, there may be more differences...........
[/quote]
+ magnesium wheels, LSD, difernt gear ratios, steel syncros, hard engine mounts, no power steering (LHD lwt) monoball top mounts, big brakes, front hubs, spring plates, front & rear bumpers, no sunroof, no rear wiper, no underseal, no headlight washers, no rear seats, lightweight loom, harder suspension bushes, lightweight glass, lightweight bonnet, wind up windows, etc.
iguana said:
I may be wrong, there may be more differences...........
+ magnesium wheels, LSD, difernt gear ratios, steel syncros, hard engine mounts, no power steering (LHD lwt) monoball top mounts, big brakes, front hubs, spring plates, front & rear bumpers, no sunroof, no rear wiper, no underseal, no headlight washers, no rear seats, lightweight loom, harder suspension bushes, lightweight glass, lightweight bonnet, wind up windows, etc.
Ahh OK yes there is
But is it £16k worth????
Tom
As someone who's moved from NA 3.2 to 965, I'd advise:
If you like driving quick off the mark, working with revs and chuckability go for the RS.
If you want more comfort, those wide arches, and WARP speeds go turbo- but you'd better have a clean licence as it won't take long before you start adding points!
If you like driving quick off the mark, working with revs and chuckability go for the RS.
If you want more comfort, those wide arches, and WARP speeds go turbo- but you'd better have a clean licence as it won't take long before you start adding points!
estimate £2 Million
One of only two Strassenversion examples built by Porsche Motorsport with a fully trimmed interior; among the most bespoke Porsche Exclusive commissions ever made
https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-964-carre...
One of only two Strassenversion examples built by Porsche Motorsport with a fully trimmed interior; among the most bespoke Porsche Exclusive commissions ever made
https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-964-carre...
They could have at least washed it since 2017 (or recommissioned it …)
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/barn-find-porsche...
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/barn-find-porsche...
lewistintin said:
Thinking of swapping my 968, for a 964. Now I not sure about putting 30kplus into an RS. However i noticed some of the turbo's have come down a little in recent years. I got a couple of questions and would appreciate any advice you can offer.
1. Is there a website with lots of advice on the 964 turbo/ 965? just general info, on things to look for, spec, etc.
2. What kind of money do high quality 964 replica's get? If you took the lightweight route, added the cage, did the power. How much less are we looking compared to the real thing? I am of course assuming that this has been done. My experiance with the 968 is that you can make a coupe into an amazing handling car by using modern equipment, one which outdoes the cs.
3. There was a picture on the wheels page with the 964 rs with orange wheels and sticker set. Does anyone have any more photos. That is absolutely stunning, it really swayed me away from getting a modern car. Very impressed with that.
4. Turbo or an RS replica???
Thanks guys
30k for a 964RS…crystal ball and all that 1. Is there a website with lots of advice on the 964 turbo/ 965? just general info, on things to look for, spec, etc.
2. What kind of money do high quality 964 replica's get? If you took the lightweight route, added the cage, did the power. How much less are we looking compared to the real thing? I am of course assuming that this has been done. My experiance with the 968 is that you can make a coupe into an amazing handling car by using modern equipment, one which outdoes the cs.
3. There was a picture on the wheels page with the 964 rs with orange wheels and sticker set. Does anyone have any more photos. That is absolutely stunning, it really swayed me away from getting a modern car. Very impressed with that.
4. Turbo or an RS replica???
Thanks guys
hmg said:
30k for a 964RS crystal ball and all that
Haha, you are correct. One thing it does show is that many people covet the car of the moment, but no way near as many actually want to live with the driving experience. As ever, the Carrera is the car that suits the vast majority, with its much better road manners. If you want to have an investment piece now, buy the 964RS. If you wish to drive the car regularly, buy a sorted carrera and modify it to replicate the RS.
Grantstown said:
Haha, you are correct. One thing it does show is that many people covet the car of the moment, but no way near as many actually want to live with the driving experience. As ever, the Carrera is the car that suits the vast majority, with its much better road manners.
If you want to have an investment piece now, buy the 964RS. If you wish to drive the car regularly, buy a sorted carrera and modify it to replicate the RS.
Hopefully this doesn't come across as being typically PH passive aggressive mode (it's not meant to) If you want to have an investment piece now, buy the 964RS. If you wish to drive the car regularly, buy a sorted carrera and modify it to replicate the RS.
I've owned four 964 RS's, the first bought in 2002 cost £23,500, the last in 2010 just over twice that.
They were wonderful cars, and so far removed from a C2, it beggared belief.
What I refer to as the Neu Porsche buying demographic talk about weight savings.
The 987.2 Cayman R - 55kg (but only if you have the right wheels, seats, no aircon, radio and candles for headlamps, and of course, a manual gearbox... )
The 991 911R was (spec dependent again) 50kg lighter than the lightest 991.2 GT3.
Meanwhile the 964 RS was around 150kg (some say 145, others 160kg) lighter than the equivalent 964 C2.
A more connected, visceral, fully trimmed, aircooled 911 you'd struggle to find. LHD versions (ie the proper ones) came without PAS, so were even more tactile and engaging.
A decent 964 manual, C2 would cost you what ? Minimum £75K now ? You could easily chuck £30K at it to get it something like an RS. Seats, wheels, suspension, brakes, exhaust, sunroof delete, rear bumper conversion, lightweight flywheel, all on top of making the 100K mile engine oil tight and fixing the multitude of other issues that afflict what are now 35 year old cars.
Sure the end result would be closER to a 964 RS, but it wouldn't be an RS, it wouldn't smell like an RS, and it almost definitely wouldn't sound or drive like an RS.
Which brings me back to my original comment, ie this is not asked in a passive aggressive tone, so typical of PH
Have you owned or driven a 964 RS for any length of time ?
If you haven't, and you ever get the opportunity to drive the two cars back to back. Do it, the experience may shock you rather more than you'd think
Slippydiff said:
Hopefully this doesn't come across as being typically PH passive aggressive mode (it's not meant to)
I've owned four 964 RS's, the first bought in 2002 cost £23,500, the last in 2010 just over twice that.
They were wonderful cars, and so far removed from a C2, it beggared belief.
What I refer to as the Neu Porsche buying demographic talk about weight savings.
The 987.2 Cayman R - 55kg (but only if you have the right wheels, seats, no aircon, radio and candles for headlamps, and of course, a manual gearbox... )
The 991 911R was (spec dependent again) 50kg lighter than the lightest 991.2 GT3.
Meanwhile the 964 RS was around 150kg (some say 145, others 160kg) lighter than the equivalent 964 C2.
A more connected, visceral, fully trimmed, aircooled 911 you'd struggle to find. LHD versions (ie the proper ones) came without PAS, so were even more tactile and engaging.
A decent 964 manual, C2 would cost you what ? Minimum £75K now ? You could easily chuck £30K at it to get it something like an RS. Seats, wheels, suspension, brakes, exhaust, sunroof delete, rear bumper conversion, lightweight flywheel, all on top of making the 100K mile engine oil tight and fixing the multitude of other issues that afflict what are now 35 year old cars.
Sure the end result would be closER to a 964 RS, but it wouldn't be an RS, it wouldn't smell like an RS, and it almost definitely wouldn't sound or drive like an RS.
Which brings me back to my original comment, ie this is not asked in a passive aggressive tone, so typical of PH
Have you owned or driven a 964 RS for any length of time ?
If you haven't, and you ever get the opportunity to drive the two cars back to back. Do it, the experience may shock you rather more than you'd think
I don’t take this is passive aggressive at all and I’m really interested in proper motoring conversation! Perhaps you’ve articulated why the 964RS is now so revered, but it wasn’t so much at the time of its launch. I've owned four 964 RS's, the first bought in 2002 cost £23,500, the last in 2010 just over twice that.
They were wonderful cars, and so far removed from a C2, it beggared belief.
What I refer to as the Neu Porsche buying demographic talk about weight savings.
The 987.2 Cayman R - 55kg (but only if you have the right wheels, seats, no aircon, radio and candles for headlamps, and of course, a manual gearbox... )
The 991 911R was (spec dependent again) 50kg lighter than the lightest 991.2 GT3.
Meanwhile the 964 RS was around 150kg (some say 145, others 160kg) lighter than the equivalent 964 C2.
A more connected, visceral, fully trimmed, aircooled 911 you'd struggle to find. LHD versions (ie the proper ones) came without PAS, so were even more tactile and engaging.
A decent 964 manual, C2 would cost you what ? Minimum £75K now ? You could easily chuck £30K at it to get it something like an RS. Seats, wheels, suspension, brakes, exhaust, sunroof delete, rear bumper conversion, lightweight flywheel, all on top of making the 100K mile engine oil tight and fixing the multitude of other issues that afflict what are now 35 year old cars.
Sure the end result would be closER to a 964 RS, but it wouldn't be an RS, it wouldn't smell like an RS, and it almost definitely wouldn't sound or drive like an RS.
Which brings me back to my original comment, ie this is not asked in a passive aggressive tone, so typical of PH
Have you owned or driven a 964 RS for any length of time ?
If you haven't, and you ever get the opportunity to drive the two cars back to back. Do it, the experience may shock you rather more than you'd think
My local Indy is Ninemeister and the proprietor has created his own 993 GT2. It’s chassis and engine numbers don’t match, but it’s got all the right bits on it and I’m sure would drive as well as the best example you could find. I’m confident that they could create a 964 RS that drives authentically as they really know all the details. Whether it’s value over the real deal I’m not so sure. Personally if I had a donor 964 and a blank check I’d go for their 9m11 creation to my taste.
Indeed !! When I bought mine in 2001-2002, only those in the know, knew. To anyone else, they were just another old Porsche, that no one really wanted, but ... the tide was turning even back then.
Trackdays were starting to gain in popularity, and out of the box, there was no finer 911 for track duty, put simply, they built for life on track.
I tracked mine once, 24 hours after I'd got it home. It was great fun (I spun it twice !!) and fun though it was to have done it once, I didn't get bitten by the trackday bug. Rather I enjoyed numerous drives in it all over the UK.
9M did some work on that first Midnight blue car in my ownership, then it ended up in the Isle of Man, and I think the owner took it to 9M too.
It sold 3-4 years ago and was on the market for £145K from memory.
As I said, if you're ever presented with the opportunity to drive either car, do it, you'll find it illuminating !'
I owned a RHD C2 manual coupe for a few months back in 2004 or 5. I didn't gel with it, it was so far removed from an RS, and felt so isolated and lacking the tactility/sense of connection that I felt with all the 964 RS's I owned.
Trackdays were starting to gain in popularity, and out of the box, there was no finer 911 for track duty, put simply, they built for life on track.
I tracked mine once, 24 hours after I'd got it home. It was great fun (I spun it twice !!) and fun though it was to have done it once, I didn't get bitten by the trackday bug. Rather I enjoyed numerous drives in it all over the UK.
9M did some work on that first Midnight blue car in my ownership, then it ended up in the Isle of Man, and I think the owner took it to 9M too.
It sold 3-4 years ago and was on the market for £145K from memory.
As I said, if you're ever presented with the opportunity to drive either car, do it, you'll find it illuminating !'
I owned a RHD C2 manual coupe for a few months back in 2004 or 5. I didn't gel with it, it was so far removed from an RS, and felt so isolated and lacking the tactility/sense of connection that I felt with all the 964 RS's I owned.
Thank you for that. It’s great to hear about your personal experience of the RS and clearest you understand what 9M are all about.
Yes, i certainly won’t turn down the chance to drive one of I get the opportunity. Perhaps one day I may even own one, but I think I’d always be frustrated if I wasn’t taking it to the track. Using such a beauty for track days in another level of expense and risk again. I don’t think I’ll be in a position to do this, but I’m very jealous of those that can. This is why my track days have generally been in a Clio. If I’d written off the Clio I wouldn’t be too bothered at all. If I damaged an RS I’d be …. I’m sure you could imagine.
Yes, i certainly won’t turn down the chance to drive one of I get the opportunity. Perhaps one day I may even own one, but I think I’d always be frustrated if I wasn’t taking it to the track. Using such a beauty for track days in another level of expense and risk again. I don’t think I’ll be in a position to do this, but I’m very jealous of those that can. This is why my track days have generally been in a Clio. If I’d written off the Clio I wouldn’t be too bothered at all. If I damaged an RS I’d be …. I’m sure you could imagine.
bennno said:
I drove a black rhd one back in the day that was up for £30k and knocked it back.
They tramline and crash about on uk roads
My experiences were that if they were lowered too much, and running sufficient camber and toe to ensure the tyre temps remain consistent across the tread width when used on track, they will indeed tramline on the road.They tramline and crash about on uk roads
For some reason, the dampers actually get stiffer with age, whether that's a seal or lack of use issue, I never established, but set up at the standard ride height, with the factory recommended geo settings, when fitted with modern tyres, new dampers (or better still 993 RS front dampers with the original 964 RS springs) they make for a wonderful road car.
Well surfaced roads undoubtedly played to the car's strengths, so with the state todays roads here in the UK are in, the stock suspension could be sub-optimal. In which case I'd invest in some high quality 3-4 way adjustable dampers to ensure the car could still be enjoyed regularly.
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