Tuscan Purchase
Discussion
Hi All,
First time making a post and first time contemplating joining the wonder that is tvr ownership. Anyway I am considering purchasing a 2002 Tuscan wih 21K on it. Body, interior, alloys are in fantastic condition except for the rear window, somewhat worn ( how much to replace?) with a £1800.00 service just carried out including 4 x new shoes by TVR Belfast. However I have seen a lot of talk on the forum about the "required" engine rebuild, the dealer has indicated to me that the 2002 model had a lot of the "bugs" worked out and so doesn't require this as the engines are more reliable.... is this the case? Other than that is there anything else I need to check for and be aware of. Also what is the average mileage that you guys would run per annum
From my perspective I understand that the Tuscan won't run like a BMW so a second car will be a requirement but at the same time I expect/would like a resonable level of reliability so that I can enjoy it to the fullest. Any thoughts or recommedation are welcome as living in Ireland the nearest dealer is 100miles away which is a slight concern. However having driven one all the worries pale in significance.... can feel the heart winning this one
Look forward to hearing from you all
Cheers
J
First time making a post and first time contemplating joining the wonder that is tvr ownership. Anyway I am considering purchasing a 2002 Tuscan wih 21K on it. Body, interior, alloys are in fantastic condition except for the rear window, somewhat worn ( how much to replace?) with a £1800.00 service just carried out including 4 x new shoes by TVR Belfast. However I have seen a lot of talk on the forum about the "required" engine rebuild, the dealer has indicated to me that the 2002 model had a lot of the "bugs" worked out and so doesn't require this as the engines are more reliable.... is this the case? Other than that is there anything else I need to check for and be aware of. Also what is the average mileage that you guys would run per annum
From my perspective I understand that the Tuscan won't run like a BMW so a second car will be a requirement but at the same time I expect/would like a resonable level of reliability so that I can enjoy it to the fullest. Any thoughts or recommedation are welcome as living in Ireland the nearest dealer is 100miles away which is a slight concern. However having driven one all the worries pale in significance.... can feel the heart winning this one
Look forward to hearing from you all
Cheers
J
johnnym said:
...the dealer has indicated to me that the 2002 model had a lot of the "bugs" worked out and so doesn't require this as the engines are more reliable...
Ask them to put this in writing, and that they will cover you in the event of any problems! PS. Do a search of the forums for lots of info.
Is this a TVR garage/dealer? I'd be surprised if it was.
My basic understanding is that the engine evolved throughout it's life with improvements in build and materials around 2003/2004.
If you feel the car is for you:
1) Spend tonight trawling through the Speed six & Tuscan forums on here and read as much info as possible so you go in with eyes wide open.
2) Get the car inspected by a recognised independant engineer.
3) Set aside a reasonable budget- incase the worst happens, or as previously said get a cast iron cover all warranty.
4) DON'T TRUST THE DEALER
All my own opinions
My basic understanding is that the engine evolved throughout it's life with improvements in build and materials around 2003/2004.
If you feel the car is for you:
1) Spend tonight trawling through the Speed six & Tuscan forums on here and read as much info as possible so you go in with eyes wide open.
2) Get the car inspected by a recognised independant engineer.
3) Set aside a reasonable budget- incase the worst happens, or as previously said get a cast iron cover all warranty.
4) DON'T TRUST THE DEALER
All my own opinions
I've heard of people using their cars for commuting, but it's always best for the S6 engine to fully warm up slowly.
Good regular servicing is very important.
I did 1200miles in 1 day on the way back from Italy last year and didn't miss a beat on a 20,000 mile car with original engine and clutch so no reason I can think of not to use a Tuscan on a regular basis as long as it gets a good regular servicing- ooo er misses
Most important thing is to use it and enjoy
Good regular servicing is very important.
I did 1200miles in 1 day on the way back from Italy last year and didn't miss a beat on a 20,000 mile car with original engine and clutch so no reason I can think of not to use a Tuscan on a regular basis as long as it gets a good regular servicing- ooo er misses
Most important thing is to use it and enjoy
John - recommend you spend some time reviewing both this forum and the speed six forum for some insight - especially postings on the rebuild issues, clutch wear/life, running costs, and the most common "niggles". Don't take everything on face value however, and one other thing you may wish to do is check out some owner profiles/information on running costs to get an indication. I don't regret my purchase at all, use the car for 8-10k miles per annum (basically any day I can use it I do, with several major roadtrips each year), and quite frankly bought it to use it - with the market so bad currently for sellers, limiting miles on a Tuscan or any TVR in an effort to retain value is of questionable logic. There are others on the forum who have racked up more miles than I (PHer Lowest I think has > 15k miles on his very new convertible).
I would be personally wary of purchasing from a dealer who had limited history or awareness of the marque. The main reason is that there are a lot of idiosyncracies with owning a Tuscan which many people would not necessarily consider "minor" and which a non-TVR saleperson would not be aware or highlight.
I would be personally wary of purchasing from a dealer who had limited history or awareness of the marque. The main reason is that there are a lot of idiosyncracies with owning a Tuscan which many people would not necessarily consider "minor" and which a non-TVR saleperson would not be aware or highlight.
Edited by Mustang Baz on Thursday 28th June 08:43
If you read through the different threads on this forum, you will see that experience varies widely. My '06 Tuscan (it was 6 months old when I bought it late last year) has 14k miles on the clock and I use it daily in and around London - where the average speed is 7mph on a good day! Still, the engine has never skipped a beat and it neither uses oil (to speak of) nor coolant.
I think that most important aspect is how the engine has been treated though. If the previous owner has been revving the engine a lot from cold, it will have suffered. Also, things that can go wrong are not necessarily the engine (e.g. on my previous Tuscan the clutch slave cylinder went and the alarm had problems, on the same day). If you have the opportunity to test drive different Tuscans that would help, since that would give you something to compare with.
One thing is for sure - it is a car that needs attention, irrespective of its reliability. For example, I absolutely love my car when I drive it, yet I'm always worried when I park it in the street. It is annoying how other people keep causing (rather expensive) damage when they park by bumping into other cars ('Ooo, I only touched it!'). Also, wherever you go, people will stare, point, make remarks and take photos. But then, you're driving a Tuscan, so you'll be smiling anyway.
I think that most important aspect is how the engine has been treated though. If the previous owner has been revving the engine a lot from cold, it will have suffered. Also, things that can go wrong are not necessarily the engine (e.g. on my previous Tuscan the clutch slave cylinder went and the alarm had problems, on the same day). If you have the opportunity to test drive different Tuscans that would help, since that would give you something to compare with.
One thing is for sure - it is a car that needs attention, irrespective of its reliability. For example, I absolutely love my car when I drive it, yet I'm always worried when I park it in the street. It is annoying how other people keep causing (rather expensive) damage when they park by bumping into other cars ('Ooo, I only touched it!'). Also, wherever you go, people will stare, point, make remarks and take photos. But then, you're driving a Tuscan, so you'll be smiling anyway.
Had mines six months now, it's an 01 Tuscan which has just went over the 9,000 mile mark now. Not a problem with it engine wise, but then again i'm not using it every day. The small niggles i've had are all down to little things. The rubber seal above the winscreen came loose (at speed) which needed stuck back down. The windows sometimes get a little confused about how high or low they are. One of my cans had a tendancy to start shuffling backwards so all needed tightening up. Nothing major though, here's hoping it stays like that !!
Hi Guys
Thanks a mill for the responses, glad that they are not of the "OH MY GOD ITS UNRELIABLE!!!" variety, even though some people have had bad experiences and it's important to have balance. Seems that all you guys have bought with your eyes open and are very happy campers. Glad to hear that 8-10K per annum is fine as I would crack up if I had a Tuscan but had to keep it wrapped in cottonwool in my garage...
Anyway I have one more question/thought that maybe you guys could shell some light on.... the car I am looking at is orginally an Irish car bought direct from TVR, the first owner is some big shot and had 6 other cars as well and imported the Tuscan at the not inconsiderable price of €145K new...OUCH!!!!! I imagine thats a good thing because cost was not an issue, the downside is that the dealer is non TVR as there are none in Ireland... having said that the Tuscan is the cheapest car he has on the forecourt as he is specialist in supercars - ferrais, porsches, lambo's etc...
My question is would I be better importing from the UK myself as opposed to buying this irish car.... the downsides that I see is that once I leave the UK dealer/private seller then I would have limited comeback anyway or are the advantages of buying from a TVR worth the hassles???
Cheers
J
Thanks a mill for the responses, glad that they are not of the "OH MY GOD ITS UNRELIABLE!!!" variety, even though some people have had bad experiences and it's important to have balance. Seems that all you guys have bought with your eyes open and are very happy campers. Glad to hear that 8-10K per annum is fine as I would crack up if I had a Tuscan but had to keep it wrapped in cottonwool in my garage...
Anyway I have one more question/thought that maybe you guys could shell some light on.... the car I am looking at is orginally an Irish car bought direct from TVR, the first owner is some big shot and had 6 other cars as well and imported the Tuscan at the not inconsiderable price of €145K new...OUCH!!!!! I imagine thats a good thing because cost was not an issue, the downside is that the dealer is non TVR as there are none in Ireland... having said that the Tuscan is the cheapest car he has on the forecourt as he is specialist in supercars - ferrais, porsches, lambo's etc...
My question is would I be better importing from the UK myself as opposed to buying this irish car.... the downsides that I see is that once I leave the UK dealer/private seller then I would have limited comeback anyway or are the advantages of buying from a TVR worth the hassles???
Cheers
J
Hi Johnny,
The two things that seem to keep comming up as important are
1) Clutch slave cylinder fail (seem to be at about 20k miles)
2) The good old engine rebuild!!
The other issues really seem minor to me and are not much worse than problems other cars have (The back window is about £150 to replace I think)
Does this one need a rebuild? 21k may indicate that its fine since, from what I've seen, a rebuild at about 6 - 8K is typical if the engine is going to fail.
So if that one had managed 21k without a rebuild then the components in it wern't faulty or the original owner didn't thrash it from cold etc.
Have a closer look at the history though since there may be an engine rebuild hidden somewhere in there. If you see a '1000 mile service' in the service history then this would normally indicate a rebuild (I think)
I know the dealer I bought mine off completely missed the rebuild it had had just 6 mths previous! (Good for me since he would have added another couple of grand onto the price if he had spotted it!)
Paul
The two things that seem to keep comming up as important are
1) Clutch slave cylinder fail (seem to be at about 20k miles)
2) The good old engine rebuild!!
The other issues really seem minor to me and are not much worse than problems other cars have (The back window is about £150 to replace I think)
Does this one need a rebuild? 21k may indicate that its fine since, from what I've seen, a rebuild at about 6 - 8K is typical if the engine is going to fail.
So if that one had managed 21k without a rebuild then the components in it wern't faulty or the original owner didn't thrash it from cold etc.
Have a closer look at the history though since there may be an engine rebuild hidden somewhere in there. If you see a '1000 mile service' in the service history then this would normally indicate a rebuild (I think)
I know the dealer I bought mine off completely missed the rebuild it had had just 6 mths previous! (Good for me since he would have added another couple of grand onto the price if he had spotted it!)
Paul
Hi Johnny
I think the most important thing is to really look at the history of the car. If you take my experience as an example, I bought a 2001 4ltr 2 years ago with 20k miles, and within the first 12 months required a full engine rebuild at £6k (50% of which was covered by warranty), a new clutch at £1k and new shocks all round. I’ve also had the odd niggly thing go wrong but still wouldn’t swap this car for anything else out there!
My point is to really understand the history of the car and don't make the same mistakes I did. For one, I was not aware of the great advice and depth of knowledge available on this site prior to my purchase. Mine was a pure impulse ‘must have’ buy and one which I have never regretted.
That said, had I spent some valuable time on this site, I would certainly have looked for a vehicle with recent engine re-build and new clutch (allow for both at approximately 20k – 25k miles IMHO) although with the engine it would often seem to be the luck of the draw. The only comfort from my experience was the percentage of costs which have been covered by my warranty, so another key factor you should consider.
As I say, no regrets, it just could have been an even more enjoyable past 2 years had I done some research and fully understood the marque prior to purchase.
Find the right one, enjoy and you will not look back! All my own personal opinions of course
Keith
I think the most important thing is to really look at the history of the car. If you take my experience as an example, I bought a 2001 4ltr 2 years ago with 20k miles, and within the first 12 months required a full engine rebuild at £6k (50% of which was covered by warranty), a new clutch at £1k and new shocks all round. I’ve also had the odd niggly thing go wrong but still wouldn’t swap this car for anything else out there!
My point is to really understand the history of the car and don't make the same mistakes I did. For one, I was not aware of the great advice and depth of knowledge available on this site prior to my purchase. Mine was a pure impulse ‘must have’ buy and one which I have never regretted.
That said, had I spent some valuable time on this site, I would certainly have looked for a vehicle with recent engine re-build and new clutch (allow for both at approximately 20k – 25k miles IMHO) although with the engine it would often seem to be the luck of the draw. The only comfort from my experience was the percentage of costs which have been covered by my warranty, so another key factor you should consider.
As I say, no regrets, it just could have been an even more enjoyable past 2 years had I done some research and fully understood the marque prior to purchase.
Find the right one, enjoy and you will not look back! All my own personal opinions of course
Keith
Edited by Tuskaa on Thursday 28th June 12:44
Hi Paul
Doesn't seem to need a rebuild to me but then again as a TVR novice how would I know any better.... but it started 1st time (good considering that it was at the back of a showroom)felt really tight when driving and went like the proverbial "shit off a shovel",clutch was even lighter than I thought especially once it warmed up.... the only thing I noticed was the effort involved in pushing the brake but I guess that this is normal as the brakes are racing and non servo like an everyday car... Is it just a case of drive it till it needs it in the hope that it never will or is it something that gets picked up on a service?
Doesn't seem to need a rebuild to me but then again as a TVR novice how would I know any better.... but it started 1st time (good considering that it was at the back of a showroom)felt really tight when driving and went like the proverbial "shit off a shovel",clutch was even lighter than I thought especially once it warmed up.... the only thing I noticed was the effort involved in pushing the brake but I guess that this is normal as the brakes are racing and non servo like an everyday car... Is it just a case of drive it till it needs it in the hope that it never will or is it something that gets picked up on a service?
Buy on condition, not age. Of course the usual full service history helps.
Engine and clutch after 20,000 miles are dangerzone irrelevant of when it was built. You may of course get many more miles, but budget for the inevitable.
And finally check out the chassis, in particular the area by the exhaust headers and outriggers. They all rust quickly even if the car has been garaged from new.
Engine and clutch after 20,000 miles are dangerzone irrelevant of when it was built. You may of course get many more miles, but budget for the inevitable.
And finally check out the chassis, in particular the area by the exhaust headers and outriggers. They all rust quickly even if the car has been garaged from new.
The 1,000 mile service is standard and does not necessarily mean that the engine has been rebuilt.
As far as TVR specialists/dealers is concerned, it is just like with the cars - experience on this forum varies widely. So going to England to buy from a specialist would not guarantee anything. If you want peace of mind, perhaps you could have an independent expert check the car before you buy it.
As far as TVR specialists/dealers is concerned, it is just like with the cars - experience on this forum varies widely. So going to England to buy from a specialist would not guarantee anything. If you want peace of mind, perhaps you could have an independent expert check the car before you buy it.
Edited by Arj on Thursday 28th June 12:56
demon_jako said:
Have a closer look at the history though since there may be an engine rebuild hidden somewhere in there. If you see a '1000 mile service' in the service history then this would normally indicate a rebuild (I think)
Paul
No the 1000 mile service is mandatory and should be in the service history. If not, find out why.Paul
Whitey said:
No the 1000 mile service is mandatory and should be in the service history. If not, find out why.
Yep, I've got three in my history
1st is the normal one from new
2nd at 7k after first rebuild
3rd at 29k after 2nd rebuild
I can't think of any other reason you would get a 1000 mile service.
Maybe after valve adjustmet?
I've already put about 1k asside for a replacement clutch since it looks as though its only had a replacement slave at 28k.
demon_jako said:
I can't think of any other reason you would get a 1000 mile service.
Check the service records - page 5. The heading says "1,000 mile service". In my booklet there's a stamp under the text "We certify that the 1,000 mile service procedure has been fully completed."After that it should get a service at 6k, 12k, 18k etc.
Edited by Arj on Thursday 28th June 13:47
John - some great advice on here, but also remember that you may have no issues at all - or, may have a bunch of issues you cannot predict. I spent 6 mths researching on here and elsewhere, test drove 8 cars, got an independent Rob Ingleby assessment, bought from a Pistonheader who by his words had always warmed up the car well, and I purchased with only 7.5k on the clock and 20 mths old. Net result - a stack load of issues in the first 6 mths which tested my patience, but realistically, would still never have been identified despite all of my months and months of work. Thems the breaks I suppose.....
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