Buying a Tuscan - engine rebuild

[SRZed]

Hi,

I'm new around here and looking for some advice please. I guess you regulars must have seen a thread like this a thousand times (as I did as a regular on another site) and will probably refer me to the search engine, but please hear me out as I haven't found an answer my question ;-)

I've been searching for a Tuscan for a few months now and am itching to get my hands on one! I've done my research and read plenty of articles about the need to have a recent engine rebuild etc. I've also taken advice from TVR owners (not Tuscan owners I might add) and my question is this...

If you have an engine without a recent TVR Power rebuild and the new follwers, how do you know that it's time for a rebuild? Does it go 'bang' and lose all power? Does it start to rattle and you need to stop driving it immediately? Or is it somewhere in between?

The reason for the question is that my Tuscan will be a 2nd car but one I intend to tour in and I'm curious to know, if the car suffers from the known follower issue could I end up stuck a long way from home with a car that won't run? Or could I get home and then take the car to TVR Power for the requisite work?

I'm nervous about going for a car without a recent rebuild and am struggling to find the right car with the right rebuild so am now considering going for the right car without the rebuild. Is this a risky move?

Your help and advice is very much appreciated (sorry for the lengthy question)

Many thanks

SRZed

[so called]

Hi SRZed,
One thing to look out for is oil on the spark plugs.
This is a sign that the valve guides are worn and so a rebuild is necessary.....just like what happened to me.

Later Tuscans and rebuilds incorporate a number of improvements such as oil way mods, better guides etc. I believe that any earlier Tuscans, mines a 2000 Mk1, will require a rebuild at some stage.

Mine had a factory rebuild in 2003 at 35k miles which I dont believe provided any of the material upgrades / mods.
I have had a second rebuild early last year at 70k miles and which has the improvements. The engine was out in February this year for some checks and additional mods and on inspection was given a "very" clean bill of health with 10k miles since the rebuild.
This has given me a great deal of confidence that the various improvements that have been introduced are having the hoped for results and so giving the S6 a longer life expectancy.

I like say thanks to all of the Engineers/Mechanics who have come up with these various mods as without their brains pockets would certainly be a little lighter.

Anway, if your "right car" is any early one with no rebuild then just be careful, make the necessary checks and consider negotiating the price with a rebuild in the deal.
I have no regrets getting my Tuscan even though I was hit with am immediate rebuild.
Good luck.

[s6boy]

No experience of one letting go fortunately so can't help you there. But I think rule of thumb says '53 engines onwards are a lot stronger.
When I got mine I did a lot of touring straight away and for peace of mind just got AA cover extended to Europe (just like I'd do with any car). The experience of taking a Tuscan abroad is IMO second to none. You can cover serious miles comfortably as well as being able to carry serious amounts of luggage/duty frees, and being able to take the roof off etc, and the foreign Jonnies love them
Word of warning though, you are much better off getting your info from places likes this than speaking to someone who knew somebody elses uncle who had an s6 engined car which went bang! At least here you will get a balanced opinion of people with REAL experience (the odd Troll sometimes raises its' head though!) whether good or bad, rather than anecdotes people hear second hand and then get blown out of proportion.
Good luck

[Mustang Baz]

SRZed

I have had my Mk1 03 3.6li for 3 yrs, and like you, spent a lot of time researching, test driving, and considering the whole rebuild issue prior to purchase. In the end, I went for am 18mth old, 7k car, which then, in 3 mths, transpired to need a rebuild, new clutch etc, etc - at only 10k miles . This was on a car which had one (careful, PH'er) prior owner and which had an independent check over, albeit not covering the engine internals. Both of us as owners had also rigidly followed recommended warm up procedures throughout the cars life.

My point is ultimately, you can spend months and months researching and still simply be unlucky. I was, but since the rebuild (done at the factory in Aug 05 under the 2 yr original warranty), the car has now done another 20k miles trouble free. When the engine itself "went", it was not a "bang!" but more a clearly different noise which I picked up on pretty much instantly. It took Racing Green about 5 seconds to diagnose it when I drove the car to them the next day (car could still be driven without a noticeable issue). If you have a concern about the rebuild issue, I would recommend you try and purchase an example with as recent a rebuild as possible - or go for one without but give yourself the peace of mind and put money aside for a good quality rebuild option NOW. That way, you won't always be worrying about the potential rebuild taking place.

[SRZed]

Thanks for all you replies. I think you've answered my question - the car won't be undriveable and I will know when the rebuild is needed. My options remain to either keep searching for one with a recent rebuild or to buy one without and put aside the money for a rebuild - obviously negotiating the price down for one that hasn't had the rebuild.

FYI my budget means I'm looking for 2001 car in a dark colour - preferably reflex charcoal or swordfish blue. So if you know of any good ones that fit the bill please let me know

Thanks again for your help

[Mustang Baz]

Only final piece of advice SRZed - make sure there is no financial over-stretching on the purchase, as the sudden expense of a new radiator, clutch etc could make ownership miserable if they come thick and fast in the early stages. It is easy to forget that these cars were £35k+ when new with running costs to match, and so although some of the cars currently on sale may appear a real bargain, there could be untold hidden issues.

[SRZed]

Thanks for the advice Mustang Baz. I'm planning to keep a 'war chest' in reserve for any unforseen expenses!

[s6boy]

Another thing that can give peace of mind is the AA breakdown parts replacement plan thingy, about £70 a year gives you upto £250 parts and labour 5 times a year.

[SRZed]

Another quick question on the same subject...

Other than what So Called said about oil on spark plugs, when I'm looking at a Tuscan that's not had a recent rebuild, is there anything I should look for that indicates that it'll need one soon?

Mustang Baz, did Racing Green tell you how they knew it needed the rebuild? You said they diagnosed the problem in 5 seconds so there must be tell tell signs??

Thanks

[pete]

You can generally tell from the change in noise. All Tuscan engines are noisy, especially when cold, but once they are warmed up you don't get any pronounced tapping or clonking noises with a good one. Hard to say unless you know the specific car though, since you do get lots of other noises compared to say a Rover v8.

The other thing to look at would be compression readings on the cylinders - if any are low (under about 150) it can indicate valve stem wear, which is (apparently) common on engines which have lasted long enough not to succumb to cam follower problems. However this isn't the entire story, since the compression readings can be all over the place if the valve clearances are out. So the other thing to check is to pop the cam cover off and see if any of the valves are reaching the end of their adjustment range. If any have stretched, or the followers are wearing out, you quickly run out of adjustment, then it's rebuild time.

I'm in the fortunate position of having done 34k without a rebuild on a 2003 3.6, and all the above signs are still healthy. I'm not kidding myself though - it's likely to need a rebuild at some point, but it's anyone's guess whether it will be in 6k miles or 30k miles.

Pete

[SRZed]

Thanks Pete!

[Mustang Baz]

SRZed said:

Mustang Baz, did Racing Green tell you how they knew it needed the rebuild? You said they diagnosed the problem in 5 seconds so there must be tell tell signs??

I had noticed a slight change in the noise of the engine to a more tappety sound when fully warmed up - less of a smooth sound. It is tough to be more specific than that, other than I just "felt" it (had only owned it 3 months at that stage mind), and Martin at RG knew as soon as I drove into the yard. All very unscientific I am afraid.

Pete - great news your engine still going strong. Mine was a 3.6li, registered late July 03, so the issues were still around v close to the 53 round of cars. I am now at 30k miles, some 20k since the rebuild.

[pete]

Mustang Baz said:

Pete - great news your engine still going strong. Mine was a 3.6li, registered late July 03, so the issues were still around v close to the 53 round of cars. I am now at 30k miles, some 20k since the rebuild.

Oh yes, my fingers are firmly crossed, but I expect it will need a rebuild at some point. I'll console myself if it happens by using it as an excuse for some upgrades

[Hot Tuscan]

Mustang Baz said:

SRZed

....When the engine itself "went", it was not a "bang!" but more a clearly different noise which I picked up on pretty much instantly. It took Racing Green about 5 seconds to diagnose it when I drove the car to them the next day (car could still be driven without a noticeable issue)....

Craig,

Could you say what the problem was that caused your 'different noise'?
Displaced shim or such, or major wear?

Steve

[SRZed]

pete said:

The other thing to look at would be compression readings on the cylinders - if any are low (under about 150) it can indicate valve stem wear, which is (apparently) common on engines which have lasted long enough not to succumb to cam follower problems. Pete

This is helpful advice, thanks Pete. Is there a range that the readings should be in to indicate a healthy engine?

I'm off to look at a couple of Tuscan's tomorrow and will try and get some compression readings if possible