3.6, 4.0, Tuscan S, Tuscan MK2 - Help!

[TeaVR]

Right - thinking of a Tuscan. I test drove an 04 plate Tuscan last week.

Now, I'm at the stage where I am going to start my research. Are there any links out there that explain what models there are and when they were introduced?

e.g.

Is the 4.0 S6 better than the 3.6?
Is a 4.0 Tuscan a Tuscan S - or is a Tuscan S something different?
Does a Tuscan S come with CCCs or equivilant as standard?
Are late 04 cars more reliable (Speed6 issues)?
Better to get an 03 with an engine rebuild or a 54 without and low mileage?
etc
etc

Thanks in advance.

Tuscan Novice

[davido140]

TeaVR said:

Right - thinking of a Tuscan. I test drove an 04 plate Tuscan last week.

Now, I'm at the stage where I am going to start my research. Are there any links out there that explain what models there are and when they were introduced?

e.g.

Is the 4.0 S6 better than the 3.6?
Is a 4.0 Tuscan a Tuscan S - or is a Tuscan S something different?
Does a Tuscan S come with CCCs or equivilant as standard?
Are late 04 cars more reliable (Speed6 issues)?
Better to get an 03 with an engine rebuild or a 54 without and low mileage?
etc
etc

Thanks in advance.

Tuscan Novice

Annecdotal evidence MAY suggest the 3.6 is more reliable, but thats a can of worms I dont really want to open. Bit more powerful in theory but in the real world bragging rights is what its best for.

4.0 and S are two different models, S has slightly larger brake disks, larger diameter exhaust and a slightly more power engine version (apparently the same as the "red rose". an S also has a rear spoiler with lights in it (look at my profile, I have a "fake" S spoiler with no lights) and a front spilter under the nose. A Red Rose by the way is a 4.0 car with a S engine but none of the other extras.

CCCs are after market cans, with a slightly misleading name, Tuscans came with the carbon fibre looking cans as standard, CCCs are a 3rd party add-on generally stainless steel, and much louder.

Last two questions about reliability, very difficult to say, lost of evidence to say that rebuilds from reputable specialists on earlier cars tend to "stay fixed" for quite a while, plenty of people here have covered mileage far greater than on a factory built engine. Lots of annecdotal evidence to say that the later cars were better put together, although that doesnt mean it will NEVER need a rebuild. Certainly far fewer later cars have needed rebuilds than the earlier ones.

Personally I would go for one which has had a recent rebuild at a reputable garage (In fact I DID do this) it will probably still have warranty which gives you peace of mind for a while. Treat it with some respect and you're unlikely to need a rebuild.

ETA have a look at http://www.mytuscan.co.uk/ lots of info there,
Take the power figures with a pinch of salt, TVRs rarely make the published figures (although they can with some fettling in the right hands)

Edited by davido140 on Sunday 25th May 19:01

[The Pits]

pinch of salt power figures were

3.6 - 350bhp (at 7200)

4.0 - 360 bhp (at 7000)

4.0S - 380 bhp (at 7000)

the 4.0 cars produce more torque and don't rev quite as high at the 3.6 which can spin up to 8000rpm.

The 3.6 is the same engine you get in a T350 and Tamora. The Sagaris has the 4.0S engine.

Personally I think the 3.6 is a great engine and I like the extra revs. Subjectively it feels a little bit smoother, but to be fair I never tried one in a tuscan. In reality all tuscans are ballistic devices, weighing only 1100kg, it's quite hard to tell the difference between the engines powerwise. The 4.0 engines aren't physically bigger, the extra capacity came from a longer stroke crank, which is why they're not quite as revvy and a bit more torquey. The 4.0S just has a bit more power through the range. It's not a huge amount but it gets going at 4,000 whereas the 3.6's best work is above 5,000. Either way, a healthy speed six is a fantastic engine. Get a good one and you'll love it.

The tuscan 2 came out at the end of 2004 and has covered lights and a redesigned interior, with digital-only instruments in a pod behind a funky 2 spoke steering wheel (like a Cerbera). The chassis was tweaked to be a bit less highly strung (slower steering) and a bit more forgiving. However many mk1 tuscans have had modified suspension so you have to take each individual car on its merits. Lets just say that fewer mk 2 owners seem to feel the need to modify their suspension but that is partly to do with age. The very last cars had another instrument redesign (the same as the fabric roofed tuscan convertible) and Sagaris-like suspension. These cars drive brilliantly (I should know, I've got one) but are rare as hens teeth and you won't find one under £30k.

Edited by The Pits on Monday 26th May 17:22

[PDtvr]

The Pits said:

The very last cars had another instrument redesign (the same as the fabric roofed tuscan convertible) and Sagaris-like suspension. These cars drive brilliantly (I should know, I've got one) but are rare as hens teeth and you won't find one under £30k.

Pits - as a matter of interest, do you know if the suspension set-up on our late Tuscan Targas is the same as that on the Tuscan Convertibles, since I believe the 'Vert has Bilstein shocks like ours? Incidentally, it was pointed out to me that the later Tuscans could be fitted with either Chinese sourced Bilsteins which are black, or with German built Bilsteins which are apparently yellow (I think I've got the colour scheme the right way round!}. Anyway, Paul Forrest at X-Works confirmed mine are German units, which are evidently a lot superior to the Far Eastern variant (no surprise there, then).

Totally agree with you re. driveability of our later Tuscans - simply outstanding handling and pace. I've covered 7,000 miles now and with the exception of both exhaust cans disintegrating in the first 1,000 miles, absolutely nothing has gone wrong with it - not even a single niggle. I would never go back to a Rover engined TVR....ever.

[NCE 61]

PDtvr said:

The Pits said:

The very last cars had another instrument redesign (the same as the fabric roofed tuscan convertible) and Sagaris-like suspension. These cars drive brilliantly (I should know, I've got one) but are rare as hens teeth and you won't find one under £30k.

Pits - as a matter of interest, do you know if the suspension set-up on our late Tuscan Targas is the same as that on the Tuscan Convertibles, since I believe the 'Vert has Bilstein shocks like ours? Incidentally, it was pointed out to me that the later Tuscans could be fitted with either Chinese sourced Bilsteins which are black, or with German built Bilsteins which are apparently yellow (I think I've got the colour scheme the right way round!}. Anyway, Paul Forrest at X-Works confirmed mine are German units, which are evidently a lot superior to the Far Eastern variant (no surprise there, then).

Totally agree with you re. driveability of our later Tuscans - simply outstanding handling and pace. I've covered 7,000 miles now and with the exception of both exhaust cans disintegrating in the first 1,000 miles, absolutely nothing has gone wrong with it - not even a single niggle. I would never go back to a Rover engined TVR....ever.

My 06 Tuscan S has the yellow Bilsteins and is way better than any standard Tuscan I have ever driven including an 05 convertable which had Bilsteins although that was not an S model. I did have a set of Nitrons which I would have fitted if the suspension was like my previous 00 Tuscan,but that was not necessary at all and they they were sold within a few weeks of taking delivery of the Tuscan S.If you can ever find one I belive there were <30 made with the Vert dash an 06 Tuscan S Targa is one of the best TVR's ever.

[R TOY]

Just to add to the engine confusion some cars left the factory with the 3.6 engine but are registered as 4.0. (as is mine, sept 03) From 03 all tuscans should have a 3.6, only S models having the 4.0li. I checked with the factory to confirm mine was a 3.6 but i dont know how you could find out now.

[H10TVR]

I've got to concur re the "driveability" of the later Tuscan Mk2's.

Ive got a late convertible with the Bilstiens on (I'm not sure if they are the Chinese or the German variety, given the last post) but I can tell you the handling is absolutely spot on; I'd wager that on the road it is probably the quickest TVR to drive ( i've had five and I include the Sagaris)I'm sure it would be different on the track. There is absolutely no comparison with my Mk 1 (which incidentally I loved) I don't feel on the edge all the time.

I rememeber a day ot two after I picked up the Mk2 driving and "taking off" over a bump in the road, tensing up on the steering wheel in preparation for the directional leap the Mk 1 would often make on its own accord, nothing just carried on going in the direction it was facing, a Joy.

I have to say thogh I think I still prefer the interior on the Mk 1 to the vert (although the wave is steadily growing on me!)

[The Pits]

PDtvr said:

The Pits said:

The very last cars had another instrument redesign (the same as the fabric roofed tuscan convertible) and Sagaris-like suspension. These cars drive brilliantly (I should know, I've got one) but are rare as hens teeth and you won't find one under £30k.

Pits - as a matter of interest, do you know if the suspension set-up on our late Tuscan Targas is the same as that on the Tuscan Convertibles, since I believe the 'Vert has Bilstein shocks like ours? Incidentally, it was pointed out to me that the later Tuscans could be fitted with either Chinese sourced Bilsteins which are black, or with German built Bilsteins which are apparently yellow (I think I've got the colour scheme the right way round!}. Anyway, Paul Forrest at X-Works confirmed mine are German units, which are evidently a lot superior to the Far Eastern variant (no surprise there, then).

Totally agree with you re. driveability of our later Tuscans - simply outstanding handling and pace. I've covered 7,000 miles now and with the exception of both exhaust cans disintegrating in the first 1,000 miles, absolutely nothing has gone wrong with it - not even a single niggle. I would never go back to a Rover engined TVR....ever.

Same here, one of my standard cans fell to bits within 2000 miles, appauling but the blame lies with the manufacturer which I imagine I'm not able to name and shame. But the rest of the car hasn't missed a beat. Mine has been dynoed up at TVR power and produced the equivalent of about 375bhp after a bit of remapping, so TVRs revised power claim would seem to be near the mark (it was revised down from 400 to 375 in 2005). I don't know which bilsteins my car has but I do know it drives near as dammit as well as the Sagaris I had before it (itself superb) only with more ground clearance. I also agree that the mk1 interior is a masterpiece but that the wavy vert dash is a great place to be and I much prefer the classic tuscan 3 spoke wheel to the 2 spoke. My only gripe is I can't see the top of the big dials so I'm relying on the shift lights for changing gear. Fabulous car to drive though and it's nice to hear from other owners that the last of the tuscans is as special and well resolved as I think it is.

[pete]

R TOY said:

Just to add to the engine confusion some cars left the factory with the 3.6 engine but are registered as 4.0. (as is mine, sept 03) From 03 all tuscans should have a 3.6, only S models having the 4.0li. I checked with the factory to confirm mine was a 3.6 but i dont know how you could find out now.

Not quite - even in the 3.6 era you could pay £1000 extra for the non-S 4.0 engine, so unless you can find the original receipt or contact someone with the factory records, it's hard to tell which one you have.

Pete

[St George]

Pits,
I have a 55 plated Tuscan2S. You mentioned an instrument change. How do I know which one I have and what are the diffrences?

TRS

[St George]

Pits,
you also mention the change up lights. I had these in my old 00 tuscan. But there arent any in the 55S. I did notice the whole display turn red once, is it now incorporated in some way?

TRS

[hallsie]

The whole dash lighting up red are the change up lights.!!
You can also change at what revs these come on, in the set up menu
HTH

Stu

[PDtvr]

St George said:

You mentioned an instrument change. How do I know which one I have and what are the diffrences?

TRS

The last of the Mk2 Tuscan Targas were fitted with the same swoopy topped dash panel and instrument binnacle as the Tuscan Convertible i.e. no pod on top of the steering wheel as on early Mk2 Targas. The same big rev counter and speedo dials are also fitted on the Sagaris, T350 and Tamora. The last Mk2s also had the same three spoke steering wheel as the other 'T' cars, as opposed to the two spoke wheel fitted to the Tuscan Mk1 and early Mk2.

The three change-up lights on the later Mk2s are incorporated on the rev counter and do not light up 'like a baboon's backside' (to quote Jeremy Clarkson)as they do on the earlier Mk2s!

Edited by PDtvr on Wednesday 28th May 10:01

[S5TVR]

The Pits said:

Mine has been dynoed up at TVR power and produced the equivalent of about 375bhp after a bit of remapping, so TVRs revised power claim would seem to be near the mark (it was revised down from 400 to 375 in 2005).

375bhp I reckon is good for a Tuscan S and in Reflex Charcoal - does it get any better ?

[The Pits]

St George, I think the others beat me to it. And S5, no, for me it doesn't get much better than a sorted late '06 tuscan targa in reflex charcoal. Can't wait to get back in it at the weekend. I had a drive down to a great seafood place in weymouth in the balmy weather a few weeks ago. Driving down there was great in the sun with the roof and back window out. But driving home at night was even better. A real miami-vice moment!

[Greenie]

Hi JP, is that Perrys by any chance?

[jonolondon]

Hi - I've got a 2005 Tuscan 2, 3.6.

Apparently the 3.6 is a bit smoother and stays in tune for longer than the more highly-strung 4.0s, but then again I've just had to replace the head-gasket after only 5k miles (500 under my ownership !) as apparently the fuelling was out...

I have heard that an ECU re-map can make a significant difference into the performance of the Speed 6. The 3.6 seems plenty fast for me (you rev-range is epic) so I can't imagine how manic a 4.0s must be...

My car also had the Bilsteins made in Romania, not Germany and the handling was frankly, pants. I've just had Gaz Golds fitted all around (Nitrons said to be very very good but a bit more pricey) and the handling was *completely* transformed - I'm so glad I didn't hang around to make the changes...

Otherwise, I'm thrilled to bits with the car and cannot think of anything else that touches it in terms of grins per mile for the money.

Hope that helps,
Jonathan

[froggie]

So how many mk2/3 tuscan tagra 4.0s out there? what years and colors? the ones with the goggle shaped instraments ans nasty 3 spoke steering wheel plastic fiesta stalks and no start button?
a step or 3 backward from TVR i think as
i prefur the 2 spoke cerb type steering wheel and mk one instruments and start button myself.

!!!!!OH THOSE RUSSIANS!!!!!

[glow worm]

froggie said:

So how many mk2/3 tuscan tagra 4.0s out there? what years and colors? the ones with the goggle shaped instraments ans nasty 3 spoke steering wheel plastic fiesta stalks and no start button?
a step or 3 backward from TVR i think as
i prefur the 2 spoke cerb type steering wheel and mk one instruments and start button myself.

!!!!!OH THOSE RUSSIANS!!!!!

What's this guy on....Nukie Brown!!!

[froggie]

well thats my opinion, The reason i was drawn to my 1st tvr (cerbra)"N8 AJP" was because of the "break from the norm styling and looks" .stumbled across it (never seen one b4) made my mind up in 5 mins ands baught it .

The colmn,and nasty plastic stalks look like there streight out of a Ford parts tray labled B1N to me,earlier ones are mutch better (IN MY OPINION)(as you must agree? as i beleive youre lucky enugh to be trying some Leven mods out, would like to c a picture of them)
Steering wheel on a 96 Cerbra had the WOW factor for me, mk 2/3 Tuscan 3 spoke looks like a 1970s throw back.(as others must agree as there are a few people have change them i ALSO beleive ).
The Cerb,and mk1 Tuscan dashes and steering colmn shrowds were a piece of art, the new Tuscan ones boaring no imagination,cheap key ignitions...Cheese grater grill was different,new style looks too production car to me(although i like the cleaner indicators instead of milatry items..
I honestly think Tuscans went backwards,why dont you post a picy of the varients (as im not clever enugh)and may be we can have a pole.
Wats wrong with having a count of mk 2/3 goggle clock,cheap steering wheel,plastic stalked (in my opinion)Tagra Tuscans?. Isnt there one for the people who couldnt aford a Tuscan with a roof? (only joking)