Floaty car at motorway speed with new rear tyres after flat

[chumleyuk]

I had a rear left flat tyre that I had driven on for 50 miles after thinking the foam I filled it with had worked. Got new Toyos added and went out for a drive only to find that when I pulled out to overtake on the motorway the car felt like the rear was slowly fishtailing. Stability at >70 was almost like the car was drunk, just like when you can feel the rear is about to slide out.

HAs anyone experienced this before?
Is this geometry and tracking or something more like suspension failure?

[so called]

I have seen lots of comments on here saying that your Toyo's need to "wear in" for a few hundred miles.
I put Toyo's on my 16" and were OK but have F1's on my 18" and they feel much better.

Have you got the right pressures ?
Good luck.

[D14 AYS]

so called said:

Have you got the right pressures ?

[davido140]

D14 AYS said:

so called said:

Have you got the right pressures ?

Thats defo the problem, the helpful garage has probably gone and filled them to 32psi, get em down to 24 pronto! they might even have been really helpful and topped up the fronts as well so best check them too!

[Flintstone]

Had this on my Chimaera. After driving a car that felt like it was on ball bearings I checked the pressures.

Garage: "Sorry mate, thought you said 32"

[chumleyuk]

They were at 30psi, changed to 24 and the ride is alot better but still not as good as it was. I think, because I 'learnt' the car with the old tyres, I have to learn it again with the newer ones. I may lower the pressures at the back to 22 or 20 just to see.

Thanks for the advice!

[Ab Shocks]

The last factory edict was 29 all the way round but some drop to 28.
Dropping the front shock seats on the Bilsteins down as far as they go and lifting the rear to give maximum rake helps with high speed stability and then making the front geo less pointy also lessens the feeling of trying to throw you off the road all the time.
All this assumes that the shock/spring balance is in harmony and those of you that have been down my 2 mile test track and lived to tell the tale will agree that it does give a good indication of how the car is handling.

So if you are passing St Neots on the A1, give me a bell and we will give your car a test. .

Edited by Ab Shocks on Saturday 31st May 12:38

[GreenV8S]

How worn are the front tyres? New tyres with deep tread squirm more than worn tyres. You can reduce this effect by running the new tyres at lower pressures. New tyres also have very soft rubber, which gradually hardens with age and heat. You can accelerate this hardening by getting the rear tyres hot (but don't go spinning the wheels or anything daft like that, you'll wreck them faster than you'll cure them).

[R TOY]

Had exactly the same thing. New rears before LeMan and car suddenly handled like a bh. Gradually improved as tyres bedded in and now fine again. get some miles thro them and check tracking etc and soon be ok. (or a track day would do the trick )

[saulk]

Had 4 Toyos fitted recently and experienced the same thing >70 Mph. Done about 400 miles now and all seems to have settled down again.

[BigJL]

Hi lads,

I had an unrepairable puncture today on my Tuscan S after coming back from Southampton - limped into Kwik Fit and the bloke put a screw into the hole to get me home.

It's my front left Toyo 18". Question is, do I need to replace both front tyres now or can I just get the one? They're all relatively new.

Cheers!
J

[satman]

BigJL said:

Hi lads,

I had an unrepairable puncture today on my Tuscan S after coming back from Southampton - limped into Kwik Fit and the bloke put a screw into the hole to get me home.

It's my front left Toyo 18". Question is, do I need to replace both front tyres now or can I just get the one? They're all relatively new.

Cheers!
J

The big question is, are the original Toyos T1-S's cos if so i doubt youll get one....the new ones are now T1-R's and Im told although a replacement, they are different.

[BigJL]

Hey,

They're the T1Rs so should be ok. I've found them for £135 with fitting from valuetyres.co.uk. Hate spending money on tyres because of punctures! Such a waste.

Edited by BigJL on Monday 2nd June 00:00

[Mustang Baz]

BigJL said:

Question is, do I need to replace both front tyres now or can I just get the one? They're all relatively new.

I had a similar issue and was advised to replace both, although mine were in a greater state of wear than yours.

Just had 2 new front Toyo TR-1's fitted @ Racing Green some 1000 miles after a pair of the same tires were fitted on the rear. I have written on here that I had real issues with quality of drive/"feel" of car for the first 600-700 miles, which have now been banished completely with the fitting of the new fronts and a complete geometry re-check. All in all, the car I used to drive is back, as is my confidence.

[SRZed]

Gald to see it's not just me. Had my P&J for about 6 weeks now, just getting to know the handling. Took him in to Racing Green for geom set up before Le Mans and found out I needed 2 new rears - ouch!

Since then he handles like a bag of sh*t! Pulling out to overtake you take your life in your hands weaving all over the place and over 90mph, forget it!

I guessed it was mostly due to the new tyres but assumed Racing Green are likely to know the correct pressures, maybe I'll go and check em. I thought I could speed up the bedding in process by lighting up the rears a feww times and 'scrubbing them', sounds like this isn't really the best idea. Do I just need to live with it for 3 - 400 miles? If so I'll likely be halfway to Le Mans by then which isn't great!

So other than putting the miles in between now and next week, anyone got any suggestions to shortcut this bedding in process?

[Mustang Baz]

SRZed said:

So other than putting the miles in between now and next week, anyone got any suggestions to shortcut this bedding in process?

Stuart - there is a thread going on currently about Toyo tyres specifically and the general opinion - also voiced by most dealers - is that 300+ miles is needed to bed down the tyres in terms of wear. I have experienced this on more than simply my Tuscan so not sure there is a quick and dirty fix, and unfortunately for you, I did not feel the Toyos were "right" until much more than that of admittedly, light driving. Either way, RG are v. experienced so are unlikely to have set your pressures at crazy levels, and with geometry having been just done, you can tick that box as well.

[GreenV8S]

SRZed said:

So other than putting the miles in between now and next week, anyone got any suggestions to shortcut this bedding in process?

There are three stages to it:

New tyres are usually covered with a release agent which scrubs off after a few miles. It only scrubs off from the bits actually in contact with the road so the first time you start throwing the car around and roll the tyre onto the shoulders you'll feel it is quite slippery until it's been cleaned off.

The tyre compound is soft when the tyres are new, and the combination of soft rubber and tall tread blocks means it will tend to squirm a lot. You can harden the rubber by putting it through a couple of heat cycles. This will drastically reduce tyre wear and also mean you get more grip. Achieving this in the winter can be difficult since it's hard to generate any heat without sliding the tyres, but in warmer weather it just needs steady firm acceleration, cornering and braking using say 75% of the available grip, working the tyres hard but not actually sliding them. You want to get the tyres up to about 60C which is too hot to hold comfortably, this will probably take about ten minutes in this weather. Let them cool down naturally over a couple of hours. Do that a couple of times and the tyres will be cured.

The third step is to scrub the outer surface of the tyres and wear the corners flat, which will probably be done nicely by the time you finished the second step.

[SRZed]

Hey Mustang Baz and GreenV8S. Thanks for your replies and your helpful advice. I'm going to take the Tiv out at every opportunity (like I don't already ) for the next 10 days and see if can get a couple of hundred miles in.

Hopefully after that and a relatively restrained journey to Dover we'll be in better shape for the fun when we arrive in Calais