Thursday 10th June 2004

Don't be scared of High Milers

There are bargains to be had for the used car buyer

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Consumers are being urged to think twice before disregarding high mileage cars as a bad buy, according to Used Car Buyer magazine.

Not only are they often better maintained, but they also offer the worldly-wise buyer savings as high as £2,000 on volume models like the Ford Focus and up to £5,000 on a prestige vehicles from BMW or Mercedes.

For example, a 2001 registered BMW 530i Sport would normally sit on a forecourt at £22,400 with average mileage, but double the mileage to 70,000 and the buyer saves an hefty £4,600 as the price drops to £17,800.

Unfortunately, the desire for low mileage cars also helps fuel a £100m a year illegal clocking scam. "Not only will a lower mileage car sell quicker, the unscrupulous seller will also gain financially by adding another few thousand to the screen price," says Guy Baker, resident expert at Used Car Buyer magazine.

Example of higher mileage savings

Year	Make & Model	Price with 30,000 miles	Price with 90,000 miles	SAVING
2001	Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec	£6,999	£5,499	£1,500
2001	Audi A4 1.9 Tdi (130bhp)	£14,999	£10,799	£4,200
2001	Jaguar XJ 4.0	£16,499	£12,999	£3,500
2001	VW Passat 1.8T S	£8,099	£6,499	£1,600
2001	Vauxhall Vectra 1.8 LS	£5,699	£4,499	£1,200

Baker chirped, "Traders admit that clocking only exists because of popular demand. However, where one buyer is over paying, another can make major savings ."

"Consumers have become conditioned to believe that a car with 90,000 plus miles on the clock is nearing the end of its road going duties. "This couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s a self-inflicted consumer stigma based on history rather than fact ," he says.

Since 1970, the average lifespan of a mass-produced car has more than doubled thanks to improved production techniques, engineering tolerances, anti-corrosion treatments and the use of galvanised steel.

Newer high-mileage cars tend to have spent most of their lives doing long haul motorway stints with the engines serenely ticking over at 2,000-4,000rpm, barely stressed at all. As fleet operated vehicles, they will also have been meticulously serviced, according to experts at Used Car Buyer magazine.

Meanwhile, low mileage vehicles tend to indicate shorter journeys, and with it premature engine wear and damage. A quick trip to town doesn’t allow the engine oil to reach its optimum temperature and lubricate the working parts properly.

[anonymous-user]

Surely if people heed this advise and start buying higher mileage cars, the savings will actually dissapear. The only reason high milers are cheaper is the reduced demand, so add demand for them and the prices will rise. No?

[will_t]

LexSport said:

Surely if people heed this advise and start buying higher mileage cars, the savings will actually dissapear. The only reason high milers are cheaper is the reduced demand, so add demand for them and the prices will rise. No?

supply & demand.....don't you just love it.

Will

[RobDickinson]

article said:

Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec 30,000 = £6,999 90,000 = £5,499 saving = £1,500

If we assume the 1.8zetec has a decent servicable life of 120,000 miles (before things get expensive) then the £7k car has 3/4 its 'life' left. The 90,000 mile car has 1/4 its life left - and will probably need more major owrk done on it (cam at 100k, clutch etc).

All depends on how much you save and what your average milage per year is, I do 20k, so that 90k car will do me 2 years max before I need to scrap it.

Looking at it that way the 30k car would be far better value.

[900T-R]

Hmm, you're underestimating the service life of a modern bread-and-butter engine methinks. Particularly when the mileage has accumulated over a short period which almost for sure indicates hghway miles, and long hauls. Point in case my former daily driver - Cit ZX 1.4 bought with 101,000 kms on the odo, just over two years later when I got the MINI it was at 228,000+. Still going strong - oil consumption exactly the same as when I got it (negligible, no topping up necessary between services), fuel consumption ditto, performance slightly better now. No costs apart from servicing, brake discs and pads, exhaust and various sundries.

I do a 75 miles (one way) commute - oil barely has the time to cool for the next trip! I bet I could have easily gotten it into the 300.000 - 400,000 km range that way without opening up major mechanical parts.

Oh, and I don't hang about - unobstructed M-way cruising speed mostly in the 90-100 mph range...

RobDickinson said:

article said: Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec 30,000 = £6,999 90,000 = £5,499 saving = £1,500 If we assume the 1.8zetec has a decent servicable life of 120,000 miles (before things get expensive) then the £7k car has 3/4 its 'life' left. The 90,000 mile car has 1/4 its life left - and will probably need more major owrk done on it (cam at 100k, clutch etc). All depends on how much you save and what your average milage per year is, I do 20k, so that 90k car will do me 2 years max before I need to scrap it. Looking at it that way the 30k car would be far better value.

[Apache]

As I've said before, in TVR terms the car will be fine if it's got a good history. All the bits that wear out will have been replaced as required, kinda like Triggers broom, so what's the problem? Main issues are the state of the chassis and interior, if these are good go for it

[RobDickinson]

900T-R I'm not underestimating the milage you may get out of these cars, just their value.

At 90k you'll need to do a lot of work which will eat up that £1.5k saving. New cambelt, new clutch, new cv joins, bearings etc. The focus probably wouldnt have cost you anything up until 70-90k (mine cost £23 in non consumables at 70k), at 90k+ your spending money on something which wont be worth any more for it.

You cant just say its £1.5k saving because your effectivly getting less usable car for your money.

[vixpy1]

RobDickinson said:

900T-R I'm not underestimating the milage you may get out of these cars, just their value. At 90k you'll need to do a lot of work which will eat up that £1.5k saving. New cambelt, new clutch, new cv joins, bearings etc. The focus probably wouldnt have cost you anything up until 70-90k (mine cost £23 in non consumables at 70k), at 90k+ your spending money on something which wont be worth any more for it. You cant just say its £1.5k saving because your effectivly getting less usable car for your money.

The cambelt will not neet doing till 140K. Maybe a new clutch but all the bearings and joimnts on a modern car should last 150- 200K.

At 90K i reckon you're not even half way there.

[Marki]

So you save 1500- squid for a car thats done 60,000-miles more ,,,, they are avin a Turkish mate .

I know i would rather stump up the extra for the 30,000 mile mota

[RobDickinson]

vixpy1 said:

The cambelt will not neet doing till 140K. Maybe a new clutch but all the bearings and joimnts on a modern car should last 150- 200K. At 90K i reckon you're not even half way there.

Cambelt on a focus 1.8 is 100k miles. bearings and joints have been seen to need replacing as low as 40,000 miles.

[900T-R]

RobDickinson said:

900T-R I'm not underestimating the milage you may get out of these cars, just their value. At 90k you'll need to do a lot of work which will eat up that £1.5k saving. New cambelt,

£100 job on a Cit ZX. Can't imagine it to be much more on a Focus.

RobDickinson said:

new clutch, new cv joins, bearings etc.

None of which have strictly to do with mileage. None of these items has been replaced yet on the 140+ K miles ZX - presumably because it's only been up and down the motorway once a day instead of crawling through town traffic for the school run, shopping et al. Something which the 30K mile car has more likely endured, apart from the obvious engine wear problems associated with short drives. I'm betting that a '00 Focus with only 30K miles would need any of above items about as soon after purchase as the 90K example.

[wedgepilot]

I'm with 900T-R on this. I'd personally be wary of a low mileage older car, it's either been clocked, or sat doing nothing for a long time or it's had lots of short trips.

Providing the servicing has been done on schedule and it's in general good nick, I wouldn't be the slightest bit worried about a high miler. In fact, I generally go for 10-15 year old cars, as this is where the real bargains can be had... Don't tell everyone though!

[Balmoral Green]

Another point that buyers dont think of is this. Buyers looking for low mileage cars are often low mileage users themselves, they are obsessed with low mileage. However, if they buy a high mileage car, then do their own usual low miles, after a year or two the high mileage car is down to average mileage, and after another year or two it will actually become low mileage itself. So they buy it cheaper at the front, as they use it the depreciation curve is less, and at the end, it is worth more, relatively speaking anyway. Blinding deal! Numpties wont go for it though, they just dont like their misconceptions being challenged, and they hate it even more if the argument is really convincing.

[lanciachris]

Nevermind dont be scared of high milers, i say dont be scared of old cars! im of the opinion that somewhere around 1990 car quality took a huge jump upwards and the cars built then are surviving well. Dirt cheap, old so no depreciation, and if it goes wrong buy another!

or in other words, bangernomics.

[agent006]

lanciachris said:

Nevermind dont be scared of high milers, i say dont be scared of old cars! im of the opinion that somewhere around 1990 car quality took a huge jump upwards and the cars built then are surviving well. Dirt cheap, old so no depreciation, and if it goes wrong buy another! or in other words, bangernomics.

And somewhere areound 1998 car build quality took an equally huge jump downwards.
Couple that with the increasing use of computers in cars mean that you'll be tied to whichever dealers have the diagnostic kit.

[sybaseian]

You are missing the point.

If you buy a high miler and only keep it for 6 months, you never have to pay for it to be serviced or taxed. You should also get your money back or there abouts when you sell it.

Always let the next owner buy the tyres, etc......

[dinkel]

So many of my (underpaid) friends have high milage 10-15 year jap wheels. Full of dents and paintbrush marks. Ratcars. Maintained at the local non-badge-garage and they do fine. A friend wanted to get rid of his 200k mile Carolla estate and stopped maintainance: it kept on running for 2 years before bumping into a truck. A bureau car Peu 405 GLi '88 kept on going forever at almost no costs but with one door closed with one serious dent. My point would be: buying a relative new car is safer for everyone. So i start looking at 70k miles and up! 406 estate to get us 4 to Spain . . .

I do 15k a year . . .

[Rob_the_Sparky]

The bargin there has to be the diesel. These engines last forever and a day, just run in when the petrols are long dead.

As for petrol engine life try the 205GTi - a car that is run hard and ragged by many owners, engine life is generally around the 120k mark. Normaly cars will have much higher engine lives (Well serviced Pug diesels are looking at 250k plus)

Rob

[SiOsbon]

Whole heartedly agree with the pug diesels that run forever and need v little doing to them, I currently have a 306DT with round about 145k on the clock, the only problem I find is since I changed to my new car, I can't seem to sell it, no matter how hard I try, it seems once they get above a certain mileage no-one will touch them with a barge pole (what is a barge pole??). I'm now resorting to the idea of e-bay just to get rid of it!! Good investment at the time, difficult to move on in my experience.

[Trefor]

Sod mileage. Look at the usage the last owner has given the car. School run/short trips? Any speed bumps on the route? How does the owner ride these bumps? Not always easy to find this out if it's a dealer sale, but the address of the last owner is in the log book usually.

I bought an Audi with 67k 3 years ago, it's now done 107k and feels no different. I plan to keep it for another few years at least - it does everything I need. I'll reserve the depreciation for my fun car instead

(We have 2 huge speed tables on our street and some residents take them at 25mph - I don't want their cars).

>> Edited by Trefor on Thursday 10th June 12:59

[v8thunder]

This is what I've been screaming at the 'brand new base model miserable little box every other year' brigade for ages. Cars aren't disposable white goods, they're more like houses - buy it, upkeep it, make improvements. Think about it: you don't buy a new house every few years 'because the other one got old and the drainpipes fell off'.

Just look at the Bargain section of Auto Trader - for the price of the cheapest new lego brick from Korea, you can have an Audi 80 Quattro, or a fleet of Jaguar XJ40s.