RE: MG Rover in Shanghai
Thursday 17th June 2004
MG Rover in Shanghai
MG Rover Group has announced an exclusive agreement with the Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation to fund the development of new models. It also opens up the important Chinese market to the company.
SAIC is the largest passenger car manufacturer in China, producing 600,000 passenger cars in 2003 with major joint venture partners General Motors and Volkswagen. SAIC supplies up to 30% of the total car market in China. In 2003, SAIC’s annual turnover was $11.7 billion from an asset base of $9.1 billion.
Kevin Howe, Group Chief Executive of Phoenix Venture Holdings (MG Rover's owners) said “Recently we have had discussions with several companies in China. We are delighted at the prospect of entering into a relationship with such a successful and respected partner, which will see a significant expansion in volumes of current and future products ”.
Further details will be announced after the companies have obtained the necessary regulatory approvals.
Discussion
chickensoup said:
two indian manufacturers
Proton
Now this Chinese co-operation
How many "deals" can Rover have without actually developing a new car
Behave! MGR need to do deals as well as develop cars. The new cars would be here now if TWR hadn't gone phut! Besides, even this weeks Autocar offered praise for the revamped ZS range.
Mind you, there will always be those who prefer prejudice to reality.
Andy
Result !
Nice one Rover. At least a decent development from the management team there...
Now stop wasting money on stupid cars like the SV which no-one will buy in enough numbers to make any money, and give us some decent new cars please.
Hopefully the Chinese can help in the process.
Nice one Rover. At least a decent development from the management team there...
Now stop wasting money on stupid cars like the SV which no-one will buy in enough numbers to make any money, and give us some decent new cars please.
Hopefully the Chinese can help in the process.
jamesc said:
I think cars are the next thing to go over to China! First clothespegs, then radios, Raliegh Choppers and now cars! A worldwide tariff on Chinese goods is needed to protect the EU.
I think it'd be more productive to protect the EU from itself, or (being selfish here) at least the UK from the EU.
33 hour working weeks, paternity leave, 2 months holiday a year - OK so I'm making some of this up (OK a lot of this, but you get the point). There's not even the remotest aknowledgement of the fact that EU contries are competing in a global economy, and one where a good proportion of the workforce is prepared to graft long, hard and in many ccases exceedingly well, for the equivalent of just a few quid a week.
All the best to Rover, let's hope this time they might have backed a winner!
I think we need to get a few of our priorities in order before jumping into bed with China. Let's not forget that they have been doing massive damage to our own trade lines (along with every other country) by not acknowledging the 'Patent' scheme.
While we have tried to enforce the ownership of an original idea and invention and have implemented with other countries the patents system around the world, China chose not to join in. It has been the biggest country to mass prouduce fake, white-label, pirated and copied goods which it has been quite happy to distribute illegally for over thirty years now.
That aside, I hope it works out for MG Rover. There are very few English maques left and it needs an opportunity like this.
While we have tried to enforce the ownership of an original idea and invention and have implemented with other countries the patents system around the world, China chose not to join in. It has been the biggest country to mass prouduce fake, white-label, pirated and copied goods which it has been quite happy to distribute illegally for over thirty years now.
That aside, I hope it works out for MG Rover. There are very few English maques left and it needs an opportunity like this.
jamesc said:
I think cars are the next thing to go over to China! First clothespegs, then radios, Raliegh Choppers and now cars! A worldwide tariff on Chinese goods is needed to protect the EU.
Damn right!
Isn't the central tenet of communism to sieze the means of production? We're just handing it to them on a plate.
Grow up.
Firstly, the EU has so many barriers to entry that it destroys 1,000,000 tonnes of food to keep inefficent farmers employed most of them largely growing nothing when we could buy that food cheaper from Africa.
The result, African farmers cannot trade in the EU without the imposition of 800% tariffs. So Africa cannot trade itself out of poverty and we pay a fortune for some foodstuffs.
That is EU policy. Oh, and if your answer is 'well, give them aid'. The EU's overseas aid policy is so corrupt, it's accounts have not been signed off for the last four years.
In so far as MGR's deal with SAIC. This is free market economies far removed from the EU. Firstly, these Chinese cars are not heading to the EU.
Simply put, they can't.
The EU has a number of anti-dumping legislation already in place. Even after the last 1970s invasion of the Japanese, there are still anti-dumping measures because they can still kick our asses with their cars IF the tariffs were removed.
The deal is to develop cars jointly, they will be made in China AND at Longbridge. SAIC currently make VW's and GM's under licence, they are not given any say in the design. This deal is to allow SAIC to develop its own cars for the indigenous market, SAIC is the No.2 of Chinese manufacturers. SAIC wants to be able to develop Chinese cars for its people not poverty spec, obsolete designs from other manufacturers.
The deal is to develop RD/X60 (a brand new platform) as a hatchback which was all MGR could afford on its own. AND to develop a saloon, MPV and other 'variants'.
SAIC are putting up the money, MGR will take input but they are largely doing the design work now in-house. It will give much better economies of scale and therefore cheaper component prices.
This was always Towers strategy for MGR. If anyone knows about R8 from the late 80s and 90s it was one platform that gave SEVEN cars to Austin Rover including the respected Tomcat Coupe. This is exactly the same strategy. R8 put two Austin Rover cars into the Top 10 best sellers because they were good cars.
It also put Austin Rover back into profit.
It is no secret that RD/X60 has attracted a lot of attention GLOBALLY. TATA are hiring staff for RD/X60 production in India as TATA want a medium car for the Indian market. So that two of the world's most populous countries that MGR have made deep inroads into. It was supposed to make an announcement in February but it was pulled because MGR did not want to give the impression to other partners that RD/X60 was finalised.
The parts are on order, suppliers have been contracted, the hatchback design is all but finalised and production is due to start mid-2005 for a late 2005 release. It is the other variants that will now follow.
SAIC are also interested in developing a new small car too and prepared to help fund it. Bearing in mind SAIC turned over $12bn last year!
In short, this is a great deal for a minnow like MGR because there are many car firms that would love to enter into deals like this. MGR have scored a huge coup here with SAIC.
Add to the mix the Lotus engineered Gen2 platform which it looks like MGR are going to co-develop further and maybe get under license and you are looking at SIX new models due from MGR in the coming couple of years.
Firstly, the EU has so many barriers to entry that it destroys 1,000,000 tonnes of food to keep inefficent farmers employed most of them largely growing nothing when we could buy that food cheaper from Africa.
The result, African farmers cannot trade in the EU without the imposition of 800% tariffs. So Africa cannot trade itself out of poverty and we pay a fortune for some foodstuffs.
That is EU policy. Oh, and if your answer is 'well, give them aid'. The EU's overseas aid policy is so corrupt, it's accounts have not been signed off for the last four years.
In so far as MGR's deal with SAIC. This is free market economies far removed from the EU. Firstly, these Chinese cars are not heading to the EU.
Simply put, they can't.
The EU has a number of anti-dumping legislation already in place. Even after the last 1970s invasion of the Japanese, there are still anti-dumping measures because they can still kick our asses with their cars IF the tariffs were removed.
The deal is to develop cars jointly, they will be made in China AND at Longbridge. SAIC currently make VW's and GM's under licence, they are not given any say in the design. This deal is to allow SAIC to develop its own cars for the indigenous market, SAIC is the No.2 of Chinese manufacturers. SAIC wants to be able to develop Chinese cars for its people not poverty spec, obsolete designs from other manufacturers.
The deal is to develop RD/X60 (a brand new platform) as a hatchback which was all MGR could afford on its own. AND to develop a saloon, MPV and other 'variants'.
SAIC are putting up the money, MGR will take input but they are largely doing the design work now in-house. It will give much better economies of scale and therefore cheaper component prices.
This was always Towers strategy for MGR. If anyone knows about R8 from the late 80s and 90s it was one platform that gave SEVEN cars to Austin Rover including the respected Tomcat Coupe. This is exactly the same strategy. R8 put two Austin Rover cars into the Top 10 best sellers because they were good cars.
It also put Austin Rover back into profit.
It is no secret that RD/X60 has attracted a lot of attention GLOBALLY. TATA are hiring staff for RD/X60 production in India as TATA want a medium car for the Indian market. So that two of the world's most populous countries that MGR have made deep inroads into. It was supposed to make an announcement in February but it was pulled because MGR did not want to give the impression to other partners that RD/X60 was finalised.
The parts are on order, suppliers have been contracted, the hatchback design is all but finalised and production is due to start mid-2005 for a late 2005 release. It is the other variants that will now follow.
SAIC are also interested in developing a new small car too and prepared to help fund it. Bearing in mind SAIC turned over $12bn last year!
In short, this is a great deal for a minnow like MGR because there are many car firms that would love to enter into deals like this. MGR have scored a huge coup here with SAIC.
Add to the mix the Lotus engineered Gen2 platform which it looks like MGR are going to co-develop further and maybe get under license and you are looking at SIX new models due from MGR in the coming couple of years.
Xm5eR said:
I think cars are the next thing to go over to China! First clothespegs, then radios, Raliegh Choppers and now cars! A worldwide tariff on Chinese goods is needed to protect the EU.
Damn right!
Isn't the central tenet of communism to sieze the means of production? We're just handing it to them on a plate.
May be they could re-employ Derek Robinson aka "Red Robbo" and send him over to China. He always prefered the totalitarian way!
James
RDX60 is to be a medium-car saloon on the large side (think VW Bora) whereas Gen2 is on the smallish side. Add to the mix the SAIC deal which also means RDX60 will be hatch, saloon, MPV and 'other' variants. Knowing Towers penchant for flexible manufacture, Project R8 is a good indication, then sporty a 'coupe' and a metal fold-down CC might be on the cards also. A spiritual successor to the revered 220 Tomcat Coupe would go down well.
RDX60 was also meant to be a flexible pan, certainly the TWR work was meant to capitalise on R30 to develop a RWD and FWD pan. If what is true from Gaydon at the time, a number of concepts were 'hidden' from BMW and Ford when the old Rover Group were dismantled.
I think MGR are looking to completely fill the medium sector with two cars. Platform sharing would certainly suit both companies. Proton have been told by the Malayesian government that they cannot rely on protectionism and subsidy in its domestic market. To lower their costs, bigger economies of scale would suit them and MGR (Proton has a very small distribution chain here and a tiny market share).
It would make more sense to license a brand new platform (with 10 years+) in it to another manufacturers and take the royalties to develop other models. I would imagine the covenant might be restrictive but it would make sense in terms of development a partnership to share expertise especially as Rover are seeking a new small car partner.
MGR have a broad alliance on paper in manufacturing terms that does look encouraging. The SAIC deal is simply light years ahead of even the big names like GM who are very protective of their technology. The TATA deal is growing, they will have some input into RDX60 possibly for a bare bones indigenous model made under license in India and the Proton deal could be a very handy way of both companies sharing platforms for very little money. Proton have no large saloon, MGR has the very capable 75 platform.
It seems to fit quite well, SAIC and TATA are cash rich and looking to expand and have no ability for R&D, MGR have the technology (especially engines) and engineering ability but no cash.
RDX60 was also meant to be a flexible pan, certainly the TWR work was meant to capitalise on R30 to develop a RWD and FWD pan. If what is true from Gaydon at the time, a number of concepts were 'hidden' from BMW and Ford when the old Rover Group were dismantled.
I think MGR are looking to completely fill the medium sector with two cars. Platform sharing would certainly suit both companies. Proton have been told by the Malayesian government that they cannot rely on protectionism and subsidy in its domestic market. To lower their costs, bigger economies of scale would suit them and MGR (Proton has a very small distribution chain here and a tiny market share).
It would make more sense to license a brand new platform (with 10 years+) in it to another manufacturers and take the royalties to develop other models. I would imagine the covenant might be restrictive but it would make sense in terms of development a partnership to share expertise especially as Rover are seeking a new small car partner.
MGR have a broad alliance on paper in manufacturing terms that does look encouraging. The SAIC deal is simply light years ahead of even the big names like GM who are very protective of their technology. The TATA deal is growing, they will have some input into RDX60 possibly for a bare bones indigenous model made under license in India and the Proton deal could be a very handy way of both companies sharing platforms for very little money. Proton have no large saloon, MGR has the very capable 75 platform.
It seems to fit quite well, SAIC and TATA are cash rich and looking to expand and have no ability for R&D, MGR have the technology (especially engines) and engineering ability but no cash.
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