RE: BMW hydrogen engine hits 185 mph
RE: BMW hydrogen engine hits 185 mph
Monday 20th September 2004

BMW hydrogen engine hits 185 mph

Up to nine hydrogen power records broken, claims BMW


"Nine records marking the start into the hydrogen age. BMW technology has already come a long way. Now, together with politicians and the energy industry, we must turn our vision of sustained mobility into reality", said Professor BMW director Burkhard Göschel during the speed record trials in Miramas, the French high-speed proving grounds. According to BMW, the achievement means BMW has proven that hydrogen can replace conventional fuel without requiring the driver to make performance compromises.

The 6-litre 12-cylinder power unit developed an output of more than 210 kW or 285 bhp, accelerating the prototype to 100 km/h in approximately six seconds with a top speed of 302.4 km/h (185.52 mph). Based on the petrol power unit from its 760i, BMW's hydrogen combustion engine includes BMW's fully variable valve drive, Valvetronic.

The main modifications to the engine involve the fuel injection system adapted by BMW to the special features and requirements of hydrogen. The H2R car benefiting from the results gained in series development of BMW's future hydrogen engine for the world's first premium saloon built for dual-mode operation, said BMW. The production car will be a dual-mode version of the current 7 Series, which be launched "during the production cycle of the present model".

The H2R prototype set up the following records shown here in terms of times measured and speed achieved:

Flying-start kilometre (time in secs - speed in kph): 11.993 - 300.190
Flying-start mile: 19.912 - 290.962
Standing-start 1/8 mile: 9.921 - 72.997
Standing-start ¼ mile: 14.933 - 96.994
Standing-start ½ kilometre: 17.269 - 104.233
Standing-start mile: 36.725 - 157.757
Standing-start 10 miles: 221.052 - 262.094
Standing-start kilometre: 26.557 - 135.557
Standing-start 10 kilometres: 146.406 - 245.892

BMW works drivers Alfred Hilger, Jörg Weidinger and Günther Weber took turns at the wheel of the record car in their record-breaking session.

BMW's motive in setting up these records was not only to prove the power and performance the hydrogen engine is able to offer. Rather, the reliability and durability of the technology used clearly demonstrates the supremacy of BMW in developing the hydrogen engine to production standard.

In this process BMW said it is concentrating on the combustion engine because it still offers the largest number of advantages and benefits all in one. However, fuel storage is one of the biggest problems facing hydrogen car designers, and BMW did not mention how the fuel was -- or would be -- stored in this or production cars.

Author
Discussion

Witchfinder

Original Poster:

6,344 posts

274 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
185 MPH on what appears to be a V12 powered bedstead takes some balls. However, 280 BHP out of a six litre V12 is laughable. Hydrogen power is viable? Not bloody likely with that kind of power output from such a colossal, expensive and complicated engine!

Furthermore, where did the hydrogen come from? Electricity generated by a coal power plant I'll warrant.

There's a long way to go before I'll be convinced. Bio-fuels seem to be a much smarter option in my opinion.

Nasta

372 posts

271 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
I totally agree, 285bhp is a bit poor from such a monster engine.

quote
According to BMW, the achievement means BMW has proven that hydrogen can replace conventional fuel without requiring the driver to make performance compromises.
end quote

I am assuming that the engine in the prototype has been made as quick/powerfull as possible, yet it is actually well behind the petrol version of the engine. BMW's site claims 445bhp, and 0-100kmh at 5.5secs. And that is in a very heavy, luxurious, safe 2165kgs unladen.

I think that it may need more work before it can stand as a viable alernative to petrol.

daydreamer

1,409 posts

279 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
For all the negatives, hydrogen isn't short on energy density (a good thing for a fuel), and is the only reasonable storage of green energy available today. It outperforms battery technology in pretty much every category (except for maybe safety of storage )

Yes it's not great that there is a possibility that the Hydrogen came from coal fired electricity, but if we don't develop the technology to to expoit the fuel now, then there won't be any point in making it when green energy does become a viable proposition.

dinkel

27,589 posts

280 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
Cheer up ladds, we all be driving our V12s in the near future . . .

Witchfinder

Original Poster:

6,344 posts

274 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
dinkel said:
Cheer up ladds, we all be driving our V12s in the near future . . .

If we're paying V12 prices though, I won't be happy! If the future of "performance" motoring is going to be 60K motors doing what 15K motors do now, then there need to be some serious changes!

rsvmilly

11,288 posts

263 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
After the 5 and 7 series, I'm glad to see their styling has improved.

the fury

593 posts

264 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
rsvmilly said:
After the 5 and 7 series, I'm glad to see their styling has improved.




Seriously, it may be not that impressive now, the low output for big engine thing, but it is still early days. It was only a few years back that 'diesel' and 'performance' would never appear in the same sentence...

dinkel

27,589 posts

280 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
rsvmilly said:
After the 5 and 7 series, I'm glad to see their styling has improved.




Mass-produced 12s would come cheaper . . . thank you BMW for this nice looking future.

How much torque?

mal

196 posts

268 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
Come on guys dont be too cynical - it is a start and a good one at that. If all your cynical statements were easily answered we would already be running on it! What it shows is that technology is being developed that can and hopefully will produce an alternative, green fuel powered cars in the future.

It may not be for a few years, but we all know it will be needed sooner or later.

Witchfinder

Original Poster:

6,344 posts

274 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
mal said:
What it shows is that technology is being developed that can and hopefully will produce an alternative, green fuel powered cars in the future.

Hydrogen may be clean at the point of consumption, but "refining" hydrogen is an energy intensive process that requires electricity. At the moment, electricity ain't too green!

mal

196 posts

268 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
'At The Moment' is the operatie phrase. BMW would not be doing it just to break a few records, they must feel there is something worthwile at the end. Once it has been proved that cars can viably and economicaly run on such fuels then massive investment will be put into the refining process.

I am no expert but I dont feel its right to slag off anyones attempt to develop such technology.

daydreamer

1,409 posts

279 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
It's not necessarily the refining process that needs to be developed - producing Hydrogen requires energy and that energy is defined by the laws of physics, rather than the process.

However, as I've said above, there is a good chance that electricity will become greener over time (and I include nuclear in this), but generally, green energy is difficult to store, and convertion into hydrogen is the best bet at the moment.

It is also a great deal lighter than a battery bank, so we can still have fun cars!!!!

cyberface

12,214 posts

279 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
yeah but if you've got a tank full of hydrogen in the car, why burn the damn stuff and waste most of the energy as heat... may as well bolt in a load of fuel cells and run some monster electric motors.

Miles more efficient and the electric motors can help with braking, too.

IC engines with hydrogen seem a tad short sighted to me.

Fatboy

8,248 posts

294 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
cyberface said:
yeah but if you've got a tank full of hydrogen in the car, why burn the damn stuff and waste most of the energy as heat... may as well bolt in a load of fuel cells and run some monster electric motors.

Miles more efficient and the electric motors can help with braking, too.

IC engines with hydrogen seem a tad short sighted to me.

Fuel Cells are incredibly heavy at the moment, extremely expensive and not that robust - an IC running on hydrogen is a better stop-gap until better fuel cells are developed...

thirsty

726 posts

286 months

Monday 20th September 2004
quotequote all
Here is the issue: Oil is getting expensive. Petroleum based fuels pollute. There is only so much oil, and what we have is getting harder to extract. Tree huggers protest when someone wants to drill a new well... and so it goes....

What do we do about it? Well, after various governments and businesses have spent billions on fuel cells, battery power, solar power, we are no closer to a replacement for Petrol than we were 25 years ago.

I am sure that there is still much to do in developing this technology, but the fuel source has no limits. Only extracting it would be an issue. I did that in a school experiment 30 years ago with a couple of D cell batteries, a bowl of salt water and a test tube. It doesn't take that much engergy, and for those that don't like nuclear power, we have hydro-electric, or even solar energy can be used. Using coal, gas, or petrol powered electricity would defeat the purpose.

Witchfinder

Original Poster:

6,344 posts

274 months

Tuesday 21st September 2004
quotequote all
mal said:
I am no expert but I dont feel its right to slag off anyones attempt to develop such technology.

I'm of the opinion that this is a cynical exercise in pointlessness - an attempt to pander to the green lobby, and to governments who have told the car industry to "do something" (they don't care what, as long as the buck is successfully passed). Without large scale commercial fusion power (another 40 years away at least), hydrogen will be even dirtier than petrol!

Yes, it's good that they're working on the technology. I've no doubt it'll improve greatly over the next 40-50 years. However, claiming that hydrogen is now a viable alternative just isn't true. It's going to take many more years of research!

dinkel

27,589 posts

280 months

Tuesday 21st September 2004
quotequote all

GM is pretty far ahead with the fuelcell technology.

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4022083&src=News

Road_Terrorist

5,591 posts

264 months

Wednesday 22nd September 2004
quotequote all
The old E32 750iL had only 220kW from a 5.0L V12, so I guess its not THAT far behind, when they double that figure they will have my attention

V8musclecar

7 posts

257 months

Wednesday 22nd September 2004
quotequote all
It's going to take many more years of research![/quote]


i agree