RE: Tired driving a far bigger problem than speeding
RE: Tired driving a far bigger problem than speeding
Tuesday 19th October 2004

Tired driving a far bigger problem than speeding

Is it a result of Government policy?


Tired driving causes 17 per cent of deaths and serious injuries whilst drivers breaking the speed limit cause only around three to four per cent, according to official Government research -- see below.

The ABD has questioned whether the two could be related. ABD road safety spokesman Mark McArthur-Christie says, "The Government has in recent years targeted all its efforts to stop drivers setting their speeds at a safe level for the road conditions by ratcheting down limits and enforcing them in a draconian fashion. As a result many drivers are driving in a 'switched out' fashion, becoming 'cruise missiles' as they crawl along at an unnaturally slow speed. Their journeys take far longer and concentration wanders while blindly following the car in front."

McArthur-Christie continues, "The sort of driving now being encouraged is obviously far more likely to induce sleepiness than driving naturally whilst continually adjusting speed for the road conditions and perceived hazards. This is emphasised by the DfT's figures which show 32 per cent of sleep-related crashes caused by goods vehicles. This is much a much higher proportion than the 67 per cent caused by cars when the relative numbers on the road are taken into account yet goods vehicles are fitted with tachographs to prevent extended driving hours. The ABD questions whether the problem could be caused because they are electronically governed to 56 mph".

ABD Chairman Brian Gregory says,: "Some serious research is urgently needed into the effects of the DfT's speed policies. As there is much evidence that the three to four per cent of fatal and serious injury crashes that occur above the speed limit are caused by drunk/drugged drivers or those in stolen cars, it would seem that the 'one trick pony' of recent years is a futile way of attempting to reduce casualties anyway as the sober, legal driver crashing above the speed limit is a very rare animal.

"Perhaps now the DfT will recognise the negative impacts of their 'dumbing down' of driving standards in the UK".

The ABD is responding to Government research on selected motorways and trunk roads which shows that:

17% of road crashes resulting in injury or death were sleep related;

One quarter of all road crashes that caused death or serious injury were sleep related;

85 per cent of drivers causing sleep related crashes were men;

67 per cent of sleep related crashes were caused by car drivers and 32 per cent were caused by drivers of goods vehicles;

While road crashes occur mostly on Fridays, these sleep related crashes occurred least on Fridays and mostly on Mondays.

The findings coincide with a new phase of Department for Transport (DfT) radio advertising alerting drivers to the dangers of 'microsleeps'. Microsleeps are potentially fatal dozes which last between two and 30 seconds and normally occur when people are tired but trying to stay awake. The advertising underpins the Department's message that people should plan their journeys with time added for regular breaks.

David Jamieson, Road Safety Minister said:

"This research demonstrates the problem and extent of driving tired. Our campaign aims to highlight how dangerous it is, so that people realise the importance of planning their journeys and taking regular breaks. We're all guilty of wanting to get to places as quickly as possible but a short break can make all the difference."

To avoid the dangers of driving tired, the DfT recommends:

On long journeys, plan your trip to include a 15-minute break every two hours;

Stopping in a safe place (not the hard shoulder of the motorway) and drinking two cups of coffee or a high caffeine drink, followed by a 15 minute nap (while the caffeine kicks in) is an effective way of combating tiredness. It will make very little difference to your journey time;

Don't start your journey tired. Be aware of the risks if you get up unusually early to start your trip, or have a long drive back at the end of your holiday;

If you're feeling sleepy, opening the window for cold air or turning up the radio are of very limited benefit and sufficient only while trying to find a safe place for a break.

The DfT spends approximately £1m per year on 'Think! Don't Drive Tired messages. This includes:

Advice and guidance encouraging people not to start a journey tired, to take a break in a safe place (not on the hard shoulder) and drink two cups of coffee or a high-caffeine drink, followed by a 15-minute nap (while the caffeine kicks in) to help combat tiredness.

Regular advertising campaigns, posters in motorway service areas, truck back messages and advisory leaflets.

Signs at key locations and variable message signs warning drivers of the dangers of falling asleep at the wheel.

Making links with private sector companies to work in partnership with the DfT to communicate our driver tiredness road safety messages.

More here.

Author
Discussion

pmanson

Original Poster:

13,388 posts

275 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
Sounds sensible to me.

So why are they targetting the M4 with speed guns? I seem to remember reading in the paper a while ago that a lot of accidents were happening in the middle section of the M4. Surely they would be better off putting in additional service stations.

The problem with this is that they won't make any money from it so it'll just disappear into the wood work!

gh0st

4,693 posts

280 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
pmanson said:


The problem with this is that they won't make any money from it so it'll just disappear into the wood work!


That, sadly, is the truth.

Expect to see much more laser guns as, whilst we cannot expect to have the tiredness problem delt with, as long as it happens below 69.9999999MPH then no one will be killed

beano500

20,854 posts

297 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
pmanson said:
Surely they would be better off putting in additional service stations.
Sensible idea

We don't have a lot of room in this country - go abroad and their are nice little service areas and "aires" every few kilometres.

Pistonfest

838 posts

274 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
beano500 said:

pmanson said:
Surely they would be better off putting in additional service stations.

Sensible idea

We don't have a lot of room in this country - go abroad and their are nice little service areas and "aires" every few kilometres.


I agree with both of you- perhaps a commercial venture would see the benefit of such things as showers, relaxation areas, and an improvement generally to match those available in France, Italy, Belgium etc, & combine the above with better road surfaces. I drove 2800 miles last week across Europe, didn't feel tired once (maybe it was the different scenery?) but I'm convinced that such things I've mentioned had a contributing effect. Oh, and only 3 sets of roadworks throughout the entire journey, and I did not see a single crash.

dinkel

27,590 posts

280 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
I'm sure everyone had the pleasant experience to get (almost) knocked off a highway lane by a sweeping truck, buss or worse: a passenger car.
Not only heavy eyes causes drivers to act this way: looking for a new cd or radiostation, cell-phoning, having a nice arguement with the passenger or the kids, day-dreaming, looking only a few yards in front of the car, looking at all, desstraction by landscape / car or pretty face, one-hand driving while the other hand is . . . etc. We saw it all.

I agree these are the daily dangers especially on the highway. People are led by comfort and ease and so they drive on to get going. Imagine getting out of the car, walk a few yards and get a cold! A little rest with a coffee and a Mars-bar does magic.
I saw a Pimp-My-Ride on MTV where a '83 Firebird got a coffee-machine in the passengers armrest. There you go.

Tips:
• Truck / bussdrivers should always be doubled at a more-than-a-days-drive. To keep an eye on eachother.
• Audiosignal every two hours: satnav can do that.
• ribbled stripping so you can hear when the car goes off lane.

Especially annoying when speeding: this morning a van changed lane - or not - doing 50 . . . This is when I love my diskbrakes.

Apache

39,731 posts

306 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
Can you tax tiredness?

victormeldrew

8,293 posts

299 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
Excellent, lets hope the ABD get some decent media coverage on this.

In the meanwhile, I'll stick to my time honoured approach to staying alert - a quick blast when conditions allow to get the adrenal glands working for a living.

stackmonkey

5,083 posts

271 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
OK, nothing that many drivers didn't already know here, but I wonder how much effort the govt will put into reducing sleep related crashes and deaths given that there's no easy way of making money from it. Will we even see a change from the one-track-focus on speed that we currently have?

lanciachris

3,357 posts

263 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
Seeing as what they count as accidents caused by speeding I wonder what theyve included as accidents caused by tiredness....

wedgepilot

819 posts

305 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
lanciachris said:
Seeing as what they count as accidents caused by speeding I wonder what theyve included as accidents caused by tiredness....


A fair point. Whilst I welcome a campaign on something other than speeding, I can't help but think that some whitehall pen-pusher has dreamed up some pseudo-stats in support of the flavour of the month. Cynical, moi...?

v8thunder

27,647 posts

280 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
I've got this horrible feeling black boxes are going to be mentioned by the powers-that-be at some point to monitor how long you've been driving in one go. They just can't go without invading your privacy and taxing you for the privledge at least somewhere down the line.

vojx

271 posts

264 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
tiredness on a monday implying lack of sleep, or altered sleep patterns of the weekend - perhaps a ban on late nights, clubbing etc??

tvradict

3,829 posts

296 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
stuff said:

McArthur-Christie continues, "The sort of driving now being encouraged is obviously far more likely to induce sleepiness than driving naturally whilst continually adjusting speed for the road conditions and perceived hazards. This is emphasised by the DfT's figures which show 32 per cent of sleep-related crashes caused by goods vehicles. This is much a much higher proportion than the 67 per cent caused by cars when the relative numbers on the road are taken into account yet goods vehicles are fitted with tachographs to prevent extended driving hours. The ABD questions whether the problem could be caused because they are electronically governed to 56 mph".


At last, somebody who sees the problems caused by speed limiters.

This morning I was driving from Ayr to Stewarton on the A77. On the A77 at Ayr, up to the limiter, Cruise Control on, sit back, and steer, knock it off at the roundabouts to get round them, hit the resume button and the lorry accelerates itself back to the limiter. So easy and so very very boring.

Removing limiters would mean that we are able to keep up with other traffic, that we would be able to overtake with ease without holding up miles of traffic.

The reason that speed limiters were installed in the first place is because somebody behind a desk decided that the large tyres found on lorries stand a higher chance of blowing out above 56mph. Where 56mph came from I have no idea but the result is Q's of heavies in lane 1 of every motorway in the country.

What I can't understand is why the tyre manyfacturer couldn't put some R&D in tyres to try and lower that chance. Or the government could invest in the roads and make them kinder to tyres

>> Edited by tvradict on Tuesday 19th October 19:51

Fatboy

8,249 posts

294 months

Tuesday 19th October 2004
quotequote all
tvradict said:
At last, somebody who sees the problems caused by speed limiters.

This morning I was driving from Ayr to Stewarton on the A77. On the A77 at Ayr, up to the limiter, Cruise Control on, sit back, and steer, knock it off at the roundabouts to get round them, hit the resume button and the lorry accelerates itself back to the limiter. So easy and so very very boring.

Removing limiters would mean that we are able to keep up with other traffic, that we would be able to overtake with ease without holding up miles of traffic.

The reason that speed limiters were installed in the first place is because somebody behind a desk decided that the large tyres found on lorries stand a higher chance of blowing out above 56mph. Where 56mph came from I have no idea but the result is Q's of heavies in lane 1 of every motorway in the country.

What I can't understand is why the tyre manyfacturer couldn't put some R&D in tyres to try and lower that chance. Or the government could invest in the roads and make them kinder to tyres

56mph was picked as it's 90kph, picked as a round number probably...

You forgot to mention the almost hypnotic effect of the engine note when the truck's on it's limiter - when it's on the limiter the note hardle changes on the motorway (at least on a modern truck that doesn't shit itself at the sight of a hill) and this constant drone at one pitch really does make you sleepy after a while...

imperialism2024

1,596 posts

278 months

Wednesday 20th October 2004
quotequote all
victormeldrew said:
In the meanwhile, I'll stick to my time honoured approach to staying alert - a quick blast when conditions allow to get the adrenal glands working for a living.


That's what I do most of the time. Or I'll use rural roads instead of highways, as it's harder to fall asleep through sharp turns, etc etc.

radracer

60 posts

265 months

Wednesday 20th October 2004
quotequote all
Your ABD is a great organization.www.abd.org.uk/
You should support it like your love of driving depends on it! We have one like it in the U.S. that fights draconian speed limit laws, www.motorists.org/ Either get behind the ABD with some spirit or find a political party equal to our Libertarian Party, www.lp.org that favors a return to common sense laws and VERY limited government. The government will make the media ignore your good sense party as they do ours but it's fun to subvert the dominant paradigm as an underdog. Till then buy some of this reflective spray and thumb your noses at the scameras as you blast past at 150 kph!
http://basilisk.1800wneiiscity.info/order/products.php
It's $70 a can but if it works it'd be the best investment in sports driving ever offered! Now who's gonna be the guinea pig and try it?
As far as changing the minds of the public, how are you gonna prove someone fell asleep because they were bored to sleep instead of sleepy because of lack of sleep? ABD's study is SOME proof!
Anyone who's ever driven Texas highways for 4 hours at 70 mph can attest to how ridiculous the current speed limits are and I gather they are about the same in the UK. The CORRECT fix is to let people drive whatever speeds they think are safe for them. The government will just promote getting more sleep before you drive so you won't be bored to sleep.
That's why we have to vote the Nazis out of office!

imperialism2024

1,596 posts

278 months

Wednesday 20th October 2004
quotequote all
radracer said:
Your ABD is a great organization.www.abd.org.uk/
You should support it like your love of driving depends on it! We have one like it in the U.S. that fights draconian speed limit laws, www.motorists.org/ Either get behind the ABD with some spirit or find a political party equal to our Libertarian Party, www.lp.org that favors a return to common sense laws and VERY limited government. The government will make the media ignore your good sense party as they do ours but it's fun to subvert the dominant paradigm as an underdog. Till then buy some of this reflective spray and thumb your noses at the scameras as you blast past at 150 kph!
http://basilisk.1800wneiiscity.info/order/products.php
It's $70 a can but if it works it'd be the best investment in sports driving ever offered! Now who's gonna be the guinea pig and try it?
As far as changing the minds of the public, how are you gonna prove someone fell asleep because they were bored to sleep instead of sleepy because of lack of sleep? ABD's study is SOME proof!
Anyone who's ever driven Texas highways for 4 hours at 70 mph can attest to how ridiculous the current speed limits are and I gather they are about the same in the UK. The CORRECT fix is to let people drive whatever speeds they think are safe for them. The government will just promote getting more sleep before you drive so you won't be bored to sleep.
That's why we have to vote the Nazis out of office!



dinkel

27,590 posts

280 months

Wednesday 20th October 2004
quotequote all
New Citroen C4 has a funny gadget:
an invisible infrared square projected in front of the car scans the road ahead and beeps when you pass the white striping. Seems to works nice and it's safe. Dunno if the beeps wake you everytime you change lanes . . .

Tafia

2,658 posts

270 months

Wednesday 20th October 2004
quotequote all
One reason for tiredness on motorways is the meal at the service area.

We all know we can feel drowsy after a large meal as the body's energy goes into digesting the food.

I recall reading that the blood sugar rises and as a result, we feel drowsy. This can also happen about an hour after eating a well known chocolate bar, which gives an initial boost and then tries to send us to sleep.


>> Edited by Tafia on Wednesday 20th October 12:49

tootler

89 posts

262 months

Wednesday 20th October 2004
quotequote all
I find this very interesting because its all about maintaining awareness and for many years I have been aware that when driving I have an 'awareness threshold' that I need to address in order to maintain 100% driving concentration. I had always thought that this was something peculiar to me because I've never heard anyone mention it.

If I drive at a speed below that at which I need to maintain 100% concentration, then my mind starts to wander and I start to think of other things, and as a consequence my attention and driving suffers. This has affected me to the degree that when driving whilst deep in thought, I have an unconscious ability to see the vehicle in front of me brake which snaps me out of my speed limit induced reverie to attend to the problem at hand. This is a real problem for me.

Obeying speed limits where there are not enough hazards (as perceived using advanced driving techniques), to warrant the restriction, are a common cause of inattention when I'm driving.

At 0400 on quiet motorway a realistic speed to maintain awareness is for me probably around 120 mph, because 70 mph under those road conditions is just hypnotic. These days such speeds are proscribed and one runs risk of loss of licence and so I have to endure the stultifying boredom that complying with the law demands, and drive dangerously, but secure in the knowledge that I’m observing the speed limit.


>> Edited by tootler on Wednesday 20th October 15:23