Polluters will pay top fine
Discussion
Leeds Student paper article:
A top transport research team have taken poll (sic) position in advising the government on road use.
The University of Leeds group, led by Peter Bonsall, professor of transport planning, recommended that bigger, gas-guzzling cars should pay more than smaller fuel-efficient cars.
Bonsall also said that Parents taking kids to school and cars using busy routes during holiday weekends, should cough up more. Motorists could be charged up to ( wait for it....... )....... £1.34 per mile on more major urban roads.
Hmmm, just you don't love these government advisors ?
Piccy
A top transport research team have taken poll (sic) position in advising the government on road use.
The University of Leeds group, led by Peter Bonsall, professor of transport planning, recommended that bigger, gas-guzzling cars should pay more than smaller fuel-efficient cars.
Bonsall also said that Parents taking kids to school and cars using busy routes during holiday weekends, should cough up more. Motorists could be charged up to ( wait for it....... )....... £1.34 per mile on more major urban roads.
Hmmm, just you don't love these government advisors ?
Piccy
Actuallym fair enough - but the tax should be on fuel. Get rid of road tax, and jack up the price of fuel; make it inefficient for people to drive their fat kids to school, or commute to work in their V8 offriader without at least offering to give lifts.
We love cars, and the right to use them. However, as things stand, something has to be done about air pollution levels in this country. If people want to drive gas guzzling cars, they should pay - on a pro rata basis, through petrol prices. Lack of road tax means that it would be cheaper for Petrolheads to keep a second car for those times when the Cerbera isn't needed, and a 50mpg Smart would do the job.
Fair enough, say I. We live in a world where we have to take responsibility for our choices - if those choices involve polluting more than strictly necessary, we should take some of the financial responsibility for that choice.
'Course this all works in theory - if the taxes went towards public transport, road infrastructure, environmentla projects. We all know of course that it will be used for other things, though...
We love cars, and the right to use them. However, as things stand, something has to be done about air pollution levels in this country. If people want to drive gas guzzling cars, they should pay - on a pro rata basis, through petrol prices. Lack of road tax means that it would be cheaper for Petrolheads to keep a second car for those times when the Cerbera isn't needed, and a 50mpg Smart would do the job.
Fair enough, say I. We live in a world where we have to take responsibility for our choices - if those choices involve polluting more than strictly necessary, we should take some of the financial responsibility for that choice.
'Course this all works in theory - if the taxes went towards public transport, road infrastructure, environmentla projects. We all know of course that it will be used for other things, though...
I'd applaud this if it was about switching road tax to fuel duty, as that makes enough sense.
However, it doesn't include an expensive enough measure of control sufficient for Bliar. This will involve car-specific black boxes, probably produced under daft reasoning that a 1.6 constitutes a 'big' engine, and 2-litre 4cyls will be lumped in with 4+-litre V8s.
God I hate this country...
However, it doesn't include an expensive enough measure of control sufficient for Bliar. This will involve car-specific black boxes, probably produced under daft reasoning that a 1.6 constitutes a 'big' engine, and 2-litre 4cyls will be lumped in with 4+-litre V8s.
God I hate this country...
Harry Flashman said:
However, as things stand, something has to be done about air pollution levels in this country.
Why? Last I heared, pollution levels are at the lowest level they've been for decades. If you wan to get them any lower, you'd better plug up all the volcanos, stop the cows farting, kill off all the termites oh and shut down all the power stations.
Hey V8s - don't get me wrong. I am no left wing 'we should all be in electric cars' extremist, but it is a fact that air quality (if not overall pollution) is terrible in this country (largely, here in London, due to Diesel busses with broken particulate filters).
More pertinently, of course, a tax on higher power cars will curb their use for everyday pottering, hopefuly stretching fuel reserves.
Hell, what do I know, I was only attempting a sensible counterpoint on this subject
*fires up his 5.0 V8 MGB, averaging about 8mpg*
More pertinently, of course, a tax on higher power cars will curb their use for everyday pottering, hopefuly stretching fuel reserves.
Hell, what do I know, I was only attempting a sensible counterpoint on this subject
*fires up his 5.0 V8 MGB, averaging about 8mpg*
Harry Flashman said:
Actuallym fair enough - but the tax should be on fuel. Get rid of road tax, and jack up the price of fuel; ... something has to be done about air pollution levels in this country. If people want to drive gas guzzling cars, they should pay - on a pro rata basis, through petrol prices.
A couple of comments.
As you already indicate, tax is already on fuel and will penalise the more thirsty car to some extent. So what's the problem? (I agree with getting rid of road tax, but why go all Labour control freaky and excessively penalise people for their choice of transport?) (By now, most people should know that most 4*4s are smaller than most estate cars and that their whole life resources consumed are less than a lot of more economical but disposable cars - because of the resources consumed in manufacturing replacements for the disposable but economical car)...
...the biggest air polluters are industry and aeroplanes, far more than private transport. Oh, and airlines don't pay tax on fuel. Does that make sense?
Harry Flashman said:
Hey V8s - don't get me wrong. I am no left wing 'we should all be in electric cars' extremist, but it is a fact that air quality (if not overall pollution) is terrible in this country
really, could you give us a link?
Harry Flashman said:
(largely, here in London, due to Diesel buses with broken particulate filters).
More pertinently, of course, a tax on higher power cars will curb their use for everyday pottering, hopefuly stretching fuel reserves.
so curbing the use of high power cars will reduce the polution from diesel buses
Harry Flashman said:
Hell, what do I know, I was only attempting a sensible counterpoint on this subject
Sorry if I come over all pernickity but I find this hysteria re the pollution from cars merely another 'manufactured scare' and for a petrolhead to advocate penalising owners of 'high power cars' a depressing indicator of how insidious the spin has become
Harry Flashman said:
*fires up his 5.0 V8 MGB, averaging about 8mpg*
now that, I can't disagree with
Another point probably not considered is the fact that vehicles with the highest consumption are often the rarely used "weekend-only" type of car.
Therefore, actual fuel used per annum is very small. If the same owner were to have a less thirsty weekend-only car, it may get more use and therefore use as much fuel per annum as the more thirsty car. Therefore no fuel saving.
Therefore, actual fuel used per annum is very small. If the same owner were to have a less thirsty weekend-only car, it may get more use and therefore use as much fuel per annum as the more thirsty car. Therefore no fuel saving.
james_j said:
Another point probably not considered is the fact that vehicles with the highest consumption are often the rarely used "weekend-only" type of car.
Therefore, actual fuel used per annum is very small. If the same owner were to have a less thirsty weekend-only car, it may get more use and therefore use as much fuel per annum as the more thirsty car. Therefore no fuel saving.
So a big V8/V12 is great as an anticongestion measure.
I'm all for that....
cdp said:
Another point probably not considered is the fact that vehicles with the highest consumption are often the rarely used "weekend-only" type of car.
Therefore, actual fuel used per annum is very small. If the same owner were to have a less thirsty weekend-only car, it may get more use and therefore use as much fuel per annum as the more thirsty car. Therefore no fuel saving.
So a big V8/V12 is great as an anticongestion measure.
I'm all for that....
Oddly, I reckon it's quite possible.
If people were forced to drive a more economical car by socialist controlling, they would be even less likely to use public transport and may even use the car more often, thus offsetting the "saving". One more point - more car use because of this = more congestion.
Of course, it's really socialist hatred of free-will, independence and generally "stepping out of line". 4*4s, for example (often blamed as the thirsty ones) only comprise about 8% of vehicles on the road, but the government will use their divide and conquer tactics to pick off one section of the motoring community at a time.
Actually, the bit that got my gander up was the second para:-
Quote
Bonsall also said that Parents taking kids to school and cars using busy routes during holiday weekends, should cough up more. Motorists could be charged up to £1.34 per mile on more major urban roads.
Not worried about the School run charge, but thoroughly object to the holiday weekends - especially when I have to work them!
Piccy
>> Edited by piccy mate on Monday 15th November 14:57
Quote
Bonsall also said that Parents taking kids to school and cars using busy routes during holiday weekends, should cough up more. Motorists could be charged up to £1.34 per mile on more major urban roads.
Not worried about the School run charge, but thoroughly object to the holiday weekends - especially when I have to work them!
Piccy
>> Edited by piccy mate on Monday 15th November 14:57
piccy mate said:
Actually, the bit that got my gander up was the second para:-
Quote
Bonsall also said that Parents taking kids to school and cars using busy routes during holiday weekends, should cough up more. Motorists could be charged up to £1.34 per mile on more major urban roads.
Not worried about the School run charge, but thoroughly object to the holiday weekends - especially when I have to work them!
Piccy
Ah! So you can see people, that once they've picked on one section of the motoring community, they've got their sights on others! If their narrow thinking doesn't get you first time, it will get you some time later!
>> Edited by piccy mate on Monday 15th November 14:57
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