o/t makes me sick
Discussion
on the news last night - girl has committed suicide after giving evidence that she was raped to the court. the 
rapist got 4 years. The lawyers made the girl hold up the knickers she was wearing when she was raped in court - she was so distraught after she killed herself.
the fffffing lawyers should be
rapist got 4 years. The lawyers made the girl hold up the knickers she was wearing when she was raped in court - she was so distraught after she killed herself. the fffffing lawyers should be
quote:
on the news last night - girl has committed suicide after giving evidence that she was raped to the court. the
the fffffing lawyers should be
Lets hope that the crims in the nick will dispose of this bastard properly, fall down stairs, drowns in showers, suffers with steel poisoning or similar......
And as for the defence lawyer lets hope he roasts in hell...
law hasnt been changed yet i dont think:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2163606.stm
why is it in these days of hi tech quick communication changing laws etc take years and costs a fortune - the lawyers get fat and the law gets bought - to quote a new model army song ( if anyone remembers them! )
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2163606.stm
why is it in these days of hi tech quick communication changing laws etc take years and costs a fortune - the lawyers get fat and the law gets bought - to quote a new model army song ( if anyone remembers them! )
What's really sick is that the law was in fact changed befor ethis case was tried, but for some obscure reason doesn't come into effcet until later this yaer. Why can't it take immediate effect?
The lawyer's "professional" body claim he - the lawyer - had no choice under their rules. Bull. If that's true they should have changed their rules 100 years ago.
The lawyer's "professional" body claim he - the lawyer - had no choice under their rules. Bull. If that's true they should have changed their rules 100 years ago.
snip> And as for the defence lawyer lets hope he roasts in hell...
If you were accused of rape (rightly or wrongly) would you not want your defence barrister to do everthing in their power and knowledge to save your bacon?
Or for barrister to say oh well he is accused of being a rapist/etc and i dont like that crime so I wont do my best to defend him?
There is no capital punishment because of miscarriages of justice, so yes rapist are bad people but if the evidence has been screwed up by the police etc then there is still the chance that they may be innocent.
I am not a barrister but qualified as a solicitor although did not do criminal work and dont practice at all now but my wife as a solicitor did and many of our friends are criminal lawyers but again not barristers. Some of the accused crims are truly scum bags but a few are not.
Its dissapointing when Lawyers get slagged off as over paid etc and as bad people who are simply doing their job as best they can. Many work long and hard hours and it is the firms that get paid very well not necessary the foot slogging lawyers.
Put your self (as a truly innocent person) in the defendants shoes of accused of rape. Think about it and the consequences of that alleged crime.
No - Really think about it.
How it will affect your job, family, friends, financially and the terror of going to prision.
You will want to be found innocent by any means possible and if that means really testing the witness to see if her story holds up (and indeed there has been mallicious cries of rape and indecent assault over the past few years) that is the job of your lawyers to do their best for you within the legal framwork of what is allowed in court.
It is very sad if the girl mentioned in this topic has killed herself after the trial.
There are no easy answers although as someone mentioned video evidence is now allowed in some circumstances which may have helped this girl give evidence. It does sound wrong/inapropriate to get the girl to hold up her knickers though.
Hope this different view point will be considered as usefull and I that I wont get too many abusive messages please, as im a PH and nice guy!!
ps my heart is along side the disgust and anger towards rapist etc but my head thankfully gives another message.
At the end of the day I try and put myself in the defendants shoes and you do see a different perspective.
If you were accused of rape (rightly or wrongly) would you not want your defence barrister to do everthing in their power and knowledge to save your bacon?
Or for barrister to say oh well he is accused of being a rapist/etc and i dont like that crime so I wont do my best to defend him?
There is no capital punishment because of miscarriages of justice, so yes rapist are bad people but if the evidence has been screwed up by the police etc then there is still the chance that they may be innocent.
I am not a barrister but qualified as a solicitor although did not do criminal work and dont practice at all now but my wife as a solicitor did and many of our friends are criminal lawyers but again not barristers. Some of the accused crims are truly scum bags but a few are not.
Its dissapointing when Lawyers get slagged off as over paid etc and as bad people who are simply doing their job as best they can. Many work long and hard hours and it is the firms that get paid very well not necessary the foot slogging lawyers.
Put your self (as a truly innocent person) in the defendants shoes of accused of rape. Think about it and the consequences of that alleged crime.
No - Really think about it.
How it will affect your job, family, friends, financially and the terror of going to prision.
You will want to be found innocent by any means possible and if that means really testing the witness to see if her story holds up (and indeed there has been mallicious cries of rape and indecent assault over the past few years) that is the job of your lawyers to do their best for you within the legal framwork of what is allowed in court.
It is very sad if the girl mentioned in this topic has killed herself after the trial.
There are no easy answers although as someone mentioned video evidence is now allowed in some circumstances which may have helped this girl give evidence. It does sound wrong/inapropriate to get the girl to hold up her knickers though.
Hope this different view point will be considered as usefull and I that I wont get too many abusive messages please, as im a PH and nice guy!!
ps my heart is along side the disgust and anger towards rapist etc but my head thankfully gives another message.
At the end of the day I try and put myself in the defendants shoes and you do see a different perspective.
agree with innocent until proven guilty but theres no way a young girl should have to hold her knickers up in a public court in front of everyone. and I still think the time it takes for anything to get done in our legal system is ridiculous in this modern age - prob cos most lawyers get paid by the hour.
Put them on the same bonfire as accountants
( ooer now i'm for it! )
Put them on the same bonfire as accountants
( ooer now i'm for it!
)Understand where you're coming from SuperlightR, and quite agree up to a point.
The growing threat of malicious rape accusations by screwed-up baggage-carrying man-hating bints just make me glad to be married and out of the 'pulling birds' phase of my life.. all part of the lefty process of marginalising the straight white male population of the western world.
Such false accusers also give all women a bad name and reduce the credibility of genuine victims.
Some interesting reading on this topic at 'The Backlash' site
The growing threat of malicious rape accusations by screwed-up baggage-carrying man-hating bints just make me glad to be married and out of the 'pulling birds' phase of my life.. all part of the lefty process of marginalising the straight white male population of the western world.
Such false accusers also give all women a bad name and reduce the credibility of genuine victims.
Some interesting reading on this topic at 'The Backlash' site
quote:
billb,
But only yesterday you were seeking the advice of lawyers on this very site. Hard to do that if they're all burning nicely away.
Anyway, I blame Tony boy Lord Irvine and his smug lining-his-own-pocket-and-rewallpapering-his-own-pad ways.
dammit i knew someone would pick up on that!!!
well maybe save a few then and keep them all in a room monty burns style!
The law is about protecting the innocent - YES also the defendant BUT but the innocent are also the raped, so demeaning/psycholgically abusing a young girl in court has to be avoided by all possible methods available.
YES we do get malicious braburning whinging feminist meanies, but this was not the case here... every case must be judges by its merits and PUNISH the guilty (don't send them to a holiday home) Rape under isalamic law (which I'm not promoting here) means death, why shouldn't a rapist be put away for a VERY long time?? 4 years FFS, he'll be out by this Christmas.... he's 15(?) so put the little bugger in a prison and beat the sh1t out of him otherwise he'll do it again........
YES we do get malicious braburning whinging feminist meanies, but this was not the case here... every case must be judges by its merits and PUNISH the guilty (don't send them to a holiday home) Rape under isalamic law (which I'm not promoting here) means death, why shouldn't a rapist be put away for a VERY long time?? 4 years FFS, he'll be out by this Christmas.... he's 15(?) so put the little bugger in a prison and beat the sh1t out of him otherwise he'll do it again........
Hmmm. The law is about a lot more than just protecting the innocent to be honest. I'm not sure how the law that governs a bank lending £2billion to an international conglomerate could really be construed as protecting the innocent.
Lawyers who get a bad name are for the most part the dishonest, fanatical or just plain evil ones, and unfortunately it is easiest for the public to come into contact with these through the criminal justice system, hence defence lawyers get demonised for doing their best for their clients (which the law requires them to).
The myth that lawyers take along time to do things because they get paid by the hour is a well worn one and has considerably less basis in truth than saying the same thing about IT contractorsWhen a lawyer is not specifically working on your case/instructions/whatever he/she will not charge you. They take a long time because they have a lot of other things to do as well and a lot of other people to deal with who are also busy and take timegetting back to them. It all builds up. If a lawyer takes 6 weeks to get back to you, but in that time has drafted a short document, phoned your ex-wife's solicitor and checked something with you, you will get charged for 3 hours work, not 6 weeks worth. This is different to those of my friends who are IT contractors being paid by the hour for a single job. They can stretch it out as long as they want as they have nothing else to do and are paid for a full day every day anyway. If we did that we would be struck off.
I do however agree that what the defence lawyer did to that young girl was appalling and that the sentences for rapists should be stronger (penalties are already there but judges are not willing to fully utilise them), but that's a different discussion.
Phew, that was a bit long. Wonder which client I can charge my time spent on that to?
Lawyers who get a bad name are for the most part the dishonest, fanatical or just plain evil ones, and unfortunately it is easiest for the public to come into contact with these through the criminal justice system, hence defence lawyers get demonised for doing their best for their clients (which the law requires them to).
The myth that lawyers take along time to do things because they get paid by the hour is a well worn one and has considerably less basis in truth than saying the same thing about IT contractors
When a lawyer is not specifically working on your case/instructions/whatever he/she will not charge you. They take a long time because they have a lot of other things to do as well and a lot of other people to deal with who are also busy and take timegetting back to them. It all builds up. If a lawyer takes 6 weeks to get back to you, but in that time has drafted a short document, phoned your ex-wife's solicitor and checked something with you, you will get charged for 3 hours work, not 6 weeks worth. This is different to those of my friends who are IT contractors being paid by the hour for a single job. They can stretch it out as long as they want as they have nothing else to do and are paid for a full day every day anyway. If we did that we would be struck off. I do however agree that what the defence lawyer did to that young girl was appalling and that the sentences for rapists should be stronger (penalties are already there but judges are not willing to fully utilise them), but that's a different discussion.
Phew, that was a bit long. Wonder which client I can charge my time spent on that to?
Can quite easily take five years unfortunately and yes, it is a common example, however the lawyers will still only be getting paid for the time they spend on it.
Getting satisfactory information from councils where it is not in their best interests to give it is hugely time consuming. Getting court time each time you have to ask for more time to get this information takes a long time as well. The courts are hugely overworked. In these cases the problem is usually with the judicial system and councils as opposed to the lawyers.
Getting satisfactory information from councils where it is not in their best interests to give it is hugely time consuming. Getting court time each time you have to ask for more time to get this information takes a long time as well. The courts are hugely overworked. In these cases the problem is usually with the judicial system and councils as opposed to the lawyers.
Are there really IT contractors who get paid by the hour and don't produce results? I must have led a sheltered life, in my experience if you don't come up with the goods you get your contract terminated. Unless a client wants you to be there at their beck and call, in which case its their money and their choice.
In my experience IT contractors don't charge by the hour for more hours than there are in a day, having passed the work on to their clerks and unpaid juniors.
In my experience IT contractors don't charge by the hour for more hours than there are in a day, having passed the work on to their clerks and unpaid juniors.
quote:There are plenty in large companies that I've met as I've gone from contract to contract. They seem to have been there for ever and they seem to have information in their heads that is essential and not documented in any way. If companies allow themselves to get in that situation they only have themselves to blame but the lack of professionalism from those contractors gives the rest of us a bad name.
Are there really IT contractors who get paid by the hour and don't produce results? I must have led a sheltered life, in my experience if you don't come up with the goods you get your contract terminated. Unless a client wants you to be there at their beck and call, in which case its their money and their choice.
Mark
I know a few, hence my post in that respect. Most have however been in places a while though and it is indeed the companies' fault if they let themselves get in that position.
More humourously, and even further off topic, I know a few IT "people" (not contractors) in big companies who actually don't know what they are doing at all. One guy had been moved across from HR because he fancied a change and he had never worked in IT before. Group Admin sec asked him if she prepared a couple of docs if he could put them on the department intranet. He had no idea what she was talking about. Good, eh??
More humourously, and even further off topic, I know a few IT "people" (not contractors) in big companies who actually don't know what they are doing at all. One guy had been moved across from HR because he fancied a change and he had never worked in IT before. Group Admin sec asked him if she prepared a couple of docs if he could put them on the department intranet. He had no idea what she was talking about. Good, eh??
quote:
I know a few, hence my post in that respect. Most have however been in places a while though and it is indeed the companies' fault if they let themselves get in that position.
More humourously, and even further off topic, I know a few IT "people" (not contractors) in big companies who actually don't know what they are doing at all. One guy had been moved across from HR because he fancied a change and he had never worked in IT before. Group Admin sec asked him if she prepared a couple of docs if he could put them on the department intranet. He had no idea what she was talking about. Good, eh??
sounds like the kind of person u'd expect from hr...
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