RE: Britain's Best Drivers' Car
Monday 9th September 2002
Britain's Best Drivers' Car
Mercielago or Mondeo? Robert Farago's not sure
Discussion
I absolutely agree. Magazines like this and EVO are always trying to compare cars in groups based on size and style and the results are always somewhat ridiculous a) because the real needs of motorists are not addressed in the selection process and b) the answer is always a Porsche in any case whatever the question. It would be much better to categorise the actual requirements motorists face such as long haul transport e.g. motorway cruising, load carrying needs, leisure etc., contrast this with driver types / ability / willingness to spend money etc. and come up with a matrix of optimal solutions for each box. This would make a lot more sense for most readers whereas at present I suspect the vast majority of us are just irritated to find we didn't go for the best buy (ie a Porsche) when in fact the question we were asking when making our purchase was a lot more complex. We can't all afford to buy the best one of each type of car so have to compromise a great deal of the time by combining groups of desired functionality in a single vehicle.
So wot exactly are you having a go at ?? The selection process, or the car chosen or the fact that it wasn't a Ford??
Sorry, But I've had a V6 Ford, and it is possible to get the brakes to fry with spirited driving on the road....
Come on - this type of competition never gives the result that everyone wants and what were the criteria they were scoring on. Just take it for what it is - a bunch of blokes out having fun on a track and saying that the Lambo was the best fun on the day. Simple.
Sorry, But I've had a V6 Ford, and it is possible to get the brakes to fry with spirited driving on the road....
Come on - this type of competition never gives the result that everyone wants and what were the criteria they were scoring on. Just take it for what it is - a bunch of blokes out having fun on a track and saying that the Lambo was the best fun on the day. Simple.
The problem isn't the fact that the results are purely reliant on the boys playing with their toys at Goodwood. The problem is the misrepresentation it offers - if it were just us reading the result we would all laugh and say much the same thing. Unfortunately this isn't some little lightly read posting on a forum, instead it is supposedly one of the most "authoritative" views on the current range of cars in the UK. There is a responsibility for the reviewers to put things in perspective and form a realistic and relevant decision together and not just play a game of who has the biggest skidmarks (by the sounds of the Focus RS I think I know the answer to that one...).
I'm not doubting that the new lambo is a VERY good car in many respects but it's very exclusivity is a big minus when it comes to us plebs who can't even afford the wheel nuts! I also realise that in order to form a half-decent comparison you have to downplay some of the quirks of these different vehicles but you can't ignore them.
Whatever happened to the autocar tests of yore? They used to put together useful and meaningful tests that compared like-for-like without trying to fool the reader with glamour
I'm not doubting that the new lambo is a VERY good car in many respects but it's very exclusivity is a big minus when it comes to us plebs who can't even afford the wheel nuts! I also realise that in order to form a half-decent comparison you have to downplay some of the quirks of these different vehicles but you can't ignore them.
Whatever happened to the autocar tests of yore? They used to put together useful and meaningful tests that compared like-for-like without trying to fool the reader with glamour
Being and old geezer, I have learned over my life that all of the motor magazines lists of "best cars" are only good for bed time reading.
I have found that when it came time to buy a car, I bought what I wanted at the time, and what I could afford.
Lamborghini number 1? Most people will never even sit in one.
I own a Chimaera and love it. I wonder where that one has been on anyone's list of "best" cars.
I have found that when it came time to buy a car, I bought what I wanted at the time, and what I could afford.
Lamborghini number 1? Most people will never even sit in one.
I own a Chimaera and love it. I wonder where that one has been on anyone's list of "best" cars.
I agreed with everything Robert said, until his inane comment about the Tamora 'blowing up'. Well, any engine will 'blow up' if a tester changes into second instead of fourth under spirited driving, I've even seen it done on a LGV!
>> Edited by kevinday on Tuesday 10th September 07:27
>> Edited by kevinday on Tuesday 10th September 07:27
Its a magazine with one purpose and one purpose only to sell copies and make the publishers money. No one forces you to buy it, read it or take the recommendation literally - unless you don't have the capacity to form your own opinions..
As human being's we have a choice and we don't do anything we don't want to do. If you think you can do it better with a cross matrix of car choices based on needs, wants, performance, luggage capacity etc then go and do it, don't whinge and talk about it. We live in the techno age, if you can post to this list, chances are you can publish your own web page.
Lighten up, in a hundred years we'll all be dead anyway. Stop gassing, sell your Focus buy an old Porsche (its the best at everything anyway), drive it and live life.
10k - 1 X 944S2, 1 x Year, 14,000 miles HAPPY! couldn't care less what 'they' think is the best drivers care, like 'they' say its down to YOU. In my opinion the best drivers car is my own and the best driver is me! And if you didn't all disagree then I'd be seriously concerned.
Plus imagine you win the lottery, you buy a Lambo, you read the article and find out a Boxster won.... *gutted* S'all hypothetical, look at the argument from all sides
>> Edited by Zoom_Jones on Tuesday 10th September 12:57
As human being's we have a choice and we don't do anything we don't want to do. If you think you can do it better with a cross matrix of car choices based on needs, wants, performance, luggage capacity etc then go and do it, don't whinge and talk about it. We live in the techno age, if you can post to this list, chances are you can publish your own web page.
Lighten up, in a hundred years we'll all be dead anyway. Stop gassing, sell your Focus buy an old Porsche (its the best at everything anyway), drive it and live life.
10k - 1 X 944S2, 1 x Year, 14,000 miles HAPPY! couldn't care less what 'they' think is the best drivers care, like 'they' say its down to YOU. In my opinion the best drivers car is my own and the best driver is me! And if you didn't all disagree then I'd be seriously concerned.
Plus imagine you win the lottery, you buy a Lambo, you read the article and find out a Boxster won.... *gutted* S'all hypothetical, look at the argument from all sides
>> Edited by Zoom_Jones on Tuesday 10th September 12:57
i agree with Zoom!, on holiday in scotland recently the hire comapny gave me a 1.4 zetec fiesta. i had the time of my life in that car, it was great for the scottish roads and i could easily keep up with most things, more to the point, i was always left with a big grin when i got out of the car! britains best drivers car will never be a lamborghini or a ferrari, it will be a fiesta and you all know it!...
quote:
I absolutely agree. Magazines like this and EVO are always trying to compare cars in groups based on size and style and the results are always somewhat ridiculous a) because the real needs of motorists are not addressed in the selection process and b) the answer is always a Porsche in any case whatever the question. It would be much better to categorise the actual requirements motorists face such as long haul transport e.g. motorway cruising, load carrying needs, leisure etc., contrast this with driver types / ability / willingness to spend money etc. and come up with a matrix of optimal solutions for each box. This would make a lot more sense for most readers whereas at present I suspect the vast majority of us are just irritated to find we didn't go for the best buy (ie a Porsche) when in fact the question we were asking when making our purchase was a lot more complex. We can't all afford to buy the best one of each type of car so have to compromise a great deal of the time by combining groups of desired functionality in a single vehicle.
Martin,
Then buy 'What Car?' I buy EVO because I want to read about exotica. I don't give a damn about the latest Eurobox... They're all the same and most are extremely good at what they are doing.
Here Here!
The moment these guys got the call to the office to say they could have the loan of a Lambo their minds we're already made up, the Lambo had won - they won't admit that to you but that's what happened. Here's a company lending them a 160k car for god's sake, you think if they slag it off they'll be lent another one? Come on, wake up and smell the coffee. Put yourself in their shoes, out on the track, the excitement you feel thrashing some of the world's finest handling cars around the track and then having to come back to the office to write it all up.. Yawn.. much rather be back out there tearing up the tarmac. Like they give a damn about what you think or want, they've just driven a Lambo for christ's sake put yourself in their shoes, would you want to devise a matrix that cross referenced ownership costs, with luggage space, fuel economy, how many cup holders it had and whether if fit in with your weekly budget, if you want that then buy used car buyer or Which magazine. You either buy the magazine or you don't.
Its sensationalism, they care about front covers, selling copies and making money end of story. Unless of course they're a non-profit organisation.......
The moment these guys got the call to the office to say they could have the loan of a Lambo their minds we're already made up, the Lambo had won - they won't admit that to you but that's what happened. Here's a company lending them a 160k car for god's sake, you think if they slag it off they'll be lent another one? Come on, wake up and smell the coffee. Put yourself in their shoes, out on the track, the excitement you feel thrashing some of the world's finest handling cars around the track and then having to come back to the office to write it all up.. Yawn.. much rather be back out there tearing up the tarmac. Like they give a damn about what you think or want, they've just driven a Lambo for christ's sake put yourself in their shoes, would you want to devise a matrix that cross referenced ownership costs, with luggage space, fuel economy, how many cup holders it had and whether if fit in with your weekly budget, if you want that then buy used car buyer or Which magazine. You either buy the magazine or you don't.
Its sensationalism, they care about front covers, selling copies and making money end of story. Unless of course they're a non-profit organisation.......
Another great article....
I personally thought the criteria in this test were better than previous ones that Autocar (who make practically everything up anyway) had carried out.If they had made more reference to the real road driving I think you'd have been happier with the result?
having been lucky enough to drive nearly all the cars in their test, including the lambo, I kinda concurred with a lot of what was said....but...
who the hell can really get to grips with a Tamora in one day? no matter how many cars you've driven? let alone a Murcielago. I am always interested that people put so much faith in a road testers opinion of soemthing they've spent 5 minutes in
"Oh the diablo is just too wide for UK roads" - utter b*ll*x - what they mean is "It's too wide for me to work out how to drive it properly in the 15 minutes I actually had access to the thing"
And as every car has it's own feeling/quirks/needs I dont see how these tests can be anything other than 'interesting reading' anyway!
N
I personally thought the criteria in this test were better than previous ones that Autocar (who make practically everything up anyway) had carried out.If they had made more reference to the real road driving I think you'd have been happier with the result?
having been lucky enough to drive nearly all the cars in their test, including the lambo, I kinda concurred with a lot of what was said....but...
who the hell can really get to grips with a Tamora in one day? no matter how many cars you've driven? let alone a Murcielago. I am always interested that people put so much faith in a road testers opinion of soemthing they've spent 5 minutes in
"Oh the diablo is just too wide for UK roads" - utter b*ll*x - what they mean is "It's too wide for me to work out how to drive it properly in the 15 minutes I actually had access to the thing"
And as every car has it's own feeling/quirks/needs I dont see how these tests can be anything other than 'interesting reading' anyway!
N
Ok, I'm an Elise owner so biased, but what is Robert talking about when he says a Jag will give :
'Surely, even the pie eater's express, the Jaguar S-Type 4.2 (14th), would provide more thrills, more consistently, over greater distances, for more of the time, for more types of people, than Hethel's miniature motoring miracle.'
Perhaps he has a different definition of thrills to me? The thrill of adjusting the climate control? The thrill of getting 15mpg? The thrill of central locking? ... If thats what he's talking about, then he missed the point. The article was about the performance dynamics of the cars when driven hard. Perhaps he misread it as 'Best Passengers Car for long haul journeys where you want to arrive as refreshed as possible'.
Even with that kind of remit, you'd probably end up with an equally exotic (just on a different axis) Aston or Roller.
farago, I'm sad to say that I disagree again. Autocar will be giving out LOTS of awards this year, I'm sure, but they specifically address the enthusiasts, and I'm sure they'll identify that the drivers car is the one that weighs the most emphasis on the pure thrills offered to the driver. The focus rs may be unruly as your quote points out, but that's probably not even a care in their case. if they rated it so highly, I bet it just that much of a joy to drive. top gear does all their awards at once, which keeps the meaning behind the award more apparent, and I think they gave driver's car to the noble m12 last year, which, if anything, is more impractical than anything else they tested.
The problem I found with the article, as with previous Autocar features of this type, is that they contadict themselves right from the outset. They claim their looking for "The Best Drivers Car" then omit the Caterham R300. Excuse me, but are'nt the Caterham cars, all versions, suposed to be the bench mark drivers car? OK, it would be a little boring if they won every year, but if they produce the best drivers car ...... ?
And, isn't getting wet sometimes less of a barrier to ownership than a £160k price tag. Hang on a moment, Caterham have a turnover of lets say £2,3,4million a year? VAG, Ford or some of the others probably do that an hour. Best not upset the big boys then? Or am I being cynical?
And, isn't getting wet sometimes less of a barrier to ownership than a £160k price tag. Hang on a moment, Caterham have a turnover of lets say £2,3,4million a year? VAG, Ford or some of the others probably do that an hour. Best not upset the big boys then? Or am I being cynical?
So the title was "Britains best driver's car of the year 2002", which means what exactly?
Is it;
Best british drivers car? - No cause a Lambo won not a TVR/Morgan/Caterham etc.
Is it;
Best car representative of a British driver? - No cause a Lambo won not a family saloon!
Is it;
Best car for British drivers? (assuming that 'drivers' means driving enthusiasts) - No cause the average income would just about support a Lotus Elise as the only car!
So it's;
Best drivers car that can be bought in Britain? - i.e. No budget, no compromise.
So why not say that in the first place? Cause maybe some people who thought that it might be an informative real world evaluation might not buy it.
Some people have said that it doesn't matter as everybody should make up there own mind, well if that was the case then marketeering people would all be unemployed wouldn't they?
It really does naff me off when things do not do what they say on the box (in my game especially!).
Is it;
Best british drivers car? - No cause a Lambo won not a TVR/Morgan/Caterham etc.
Is it;
Best car representative of a British driver? - No cause a Lambo won not a family saloon!
Is it;
Best car for British drivers? (assuming that 'drivers' means driving enthusiasts) - No cause the average income would just about support a Lotus Elise as the only car!
So it's;
Best drivers car that can be bought in Britain? - i.e. No budget, no compromise.
So why not say that in the first place? Cause maybe some people who thought that it might be an informative real world evaluation might not buy it.
Some people have said that it doesn't matter as everybody should make up there own mind, well if that was the case then marketeering people would all be unemployed wouldn't they?
It really does naff me off when things do not do what they say on the box (in my game especially!).
quote:
Excuse me, but are'nt the Caterham cars, all versions, suposed to be the bench mark drivers car? OK, it would be a little boring if they won every year, but if they produce the best drivers car ...... ?
definitely don't agree here...reading the article they said "the best drivers car in a variety of conditions" having driven an R500 in the wet, once, I can absolutely say with utter confidence that this should NEVER win "generally best drivers car"...it is far too scary...and I guess the R300 is just a slightly softer version....
Don't get me wrong, I don't own a Caterham, never even driven one (a little wide of girth) I have however been reading Autocar since 1986 and in every article they have written about the cars they have raved about them. I'm not even saying it should have won. The R300 meets every requirement to have been included, including being a car launched in the previous 12 months. All i want to know is why was it not part of the test?
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