What the frig is going on in Surrey schools?

[Nick W]

Bit behind the times here, but whats going on at that sad little school in Epsom where the kids can threaten a teachers life and not be allowed to be expelled for it. Have they all gone soft? Wouldnt happen in my day.. A PE teacher for chrissakes! He'd have beaten the living sh1t out of me, then had me expelled.

[joust]

Actually - given that I come from a 'teaching' family, it would appear to me that the school did not do their homework............

Independant appeals panels (IAP) are a strange thing setup by the government.

If you think about it - UK law is enshrined around the principle of a fair trial. For serious offenses, that trial is done in front of "12 lay people, straight and true" that without any appreciation of the finer facts have to make a judgement on what they hear given in evidence.

Now, one could argue that the IAP is therefore a direct reflection of this - in that non teaching people make a judgement on if the child is "guilty or not guilty".

Uunfortunatly that is where it breaks down.

In a court case, the *magistrate* - a professional person, takes the guilty/not guilty verdict and lays down the sentance. If you wish to appeal against that sentance, then the evidence is heard in front of more professionals (i.e. appeal magistrates).

Unfortunatly its all arse about face due to the Labour govenments meddling.

What we have is that the professionals decide if the child is "guilty or not guilty" (i.e. the senior management team) and the most senior professional (the headteacher) lays down the "sentance" (detention / suspension / expel).

We then have a mad situation where the appeal can not only decide if the child is "guilty/not guilty", but can change the "sentance" as well.

In this case, whilst the IAP decided the children were "guilty" - they changed the sentance

Totally bonkers if you follow the drift???

However, it would appear that in this case the school did not present the facts of the case to the IAP at all well. This, in my view and experience of the same situation happening in schools with heads/deputy heads that I know, can be the only reason that the IAP overturned the expulsion order.

Who's to blame - the "mad looney" that makes a "profession" out of representing parents at these IAPs, or the school for not going prepared with all the facts and evidence?

There are generally 3 people on an IAP, so for all 3 to not be convinced the evidence presented really must have been bad...

Makes you think if nothing else.

J

[DrSeuss]

This has been discussed in more detail here:

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=19294&f=23&h=0

But there was an interesting article in the paper the other day about some character called Gerry German (!), a 70-odd year-old leftie with a history of sh*t-stirring, who's set up something called the "Communities Empowerment Network". The aim of this organisation (funded, naturally, by a Lottery grant...) is to campaign for the "rights" of troublemaking pupils who have been expelled from school - and yep, he's been the prime mover in forcing the Surrey school to take these 2 scrotes back.

In case you fancy raising your blood pressure, their website is at www.compowernet.org/.

Note how they're big on the rights of expelled pupils, but no mention of their responsibilities, or the rights of the other pupils who actually want to learn, or the teachers who just want to do their jobs without receiving death threats.

[Nick W]

I've always lived in the hopeful belief that comon sense can prevail in these situations, so that even if the head, et al screw up in presenting their case, the system will allow sense to prevail. I cannot for the life of me understand how a judgemental body could see racism, death threats,and what ever else these scroats have done/said as a schoolboy prank.

Too right it makes you think.

[incorrigible]

DrSeuss said:But there was an interesting article in the paper the other day about some character called Gerry German (!), a 70-odd year-old leftie with a history of sh*t-stirring, who's set up something called the "Communities Empowerment Network". The aim of this organisation (funded, naturally, by a Lottery grant...) is to campaign for the "rights" of troublemaking pupils who have been expelled from school - and yep, he's been the prime mover in forcing the Surrey school to take these 2 scrotes back.

In case you fancy raising your blood pressure, their website is at www.compowernet.org/.

Note how they're big on the rights of expelled pupils, but no mention of their responsibilities, or the rights of the other pupils who actually want to learn, or the teachers who just want to do their jobs without receiving death threats.

I think the paper you talk about may have sensationalised the involvment of this organisation.
The first page of their site, goes on about inequality in expelling pupils (ethnic minorities more likely to get expelled for the same offence etc)

But your other points are fair enough, death threats can hardly be decribed as friendly banter. And, as many others who've contributed to this thread have said, if I did anything like that at school etc

Maybe we just need someone to design a PS2 Organic chemistry game, or Medieval history trading cards...

[M@H]

or perhaps get a bunch of very wierd people to release a pop song about chemistry...?


Edited to add from the top40:

No 23. John Otway - Bunsen Burner (U-Vibe)


>> Edited by M@H on Tuesday 15th October 15:06