RE: Gonzo is a Muppet
Sunday 12th January 2003
Gonzo is a Muppet
Do car magazines have a moral responsibility to promote safe driving?
Discussion
I knew cars oversteered and understeered when I was 18 years old and took full advantage of this fact. I knew this despite the complete absence in my litarary collection of any car magazines telling me so. People who like cars, like driving cars quickly and will explore the limits of their cars regardless of what is printed in magazines.
Nowadays I tend not to drive on the edge all the time but will do so when I please and when it is safe (at least for everyone else) that I do so. When I do drive closer to the edge than many people feel comfortable I do so off my own back and haven't been compelled to do so by some road tester.
Your car-crazed youngsters (jesus, Robert, wake up mate, why is it that the instant people reach a certain age they start to blanket accuse the youth of being car-crazed? I'm car crazed and I'm 34) are more interested in big ICE installs and drag-racing off the lights than mastering opposite lock along the byways of middle england.
What a bunch of guff this article is... "Remember: ninety-nine out of 100 drivers would sooner drive backwards than sideways, consider understeer and oversteer an indication of an impending accident and abhor "moments" (the gonzo term of veneration for a near death experience)."... Pistonheads and Evo are aimed at that 1% of which I am one.
Robert, please either stop trying to be provocative (unless you are genuinely a pensionable caravan tugger waving your stick at us), it's not what we want to read about. Tell us about fast cars, it's what we like.
Regards,
Mark
Nowadays I tend not to drive on the edge all the time but will do so when I please and when it is safe (at least for everyone else) that I do so. When I do drive closer to the edge than many people feel comfortable I do so off my own back and haven't been compelled to do so by some road tester.
Your car-crazed youngsters (jesus, Robert, wake up mate, why is it that the instant people reach a certain age they start to blanket accuse the youth of being car-crazed? I'm car crazed and I'm 34) are more interested in big ICE installs and drag-racing off the lights than mastering opposite lock along the byways of middle england.
What a bunch of guff this article is... "Remember: ninety-nine out of 100 drivers would sooner drive backwards than sideways, consider understeer and oversteer an indication of an impending accident and abhor "moments" (the gonzo term of veneration for a near death experience)."... Pistonheads and Evo are aimed at that 1% of which I am one.
Robert, please either stop trying to be provocative (unless you are genuinely a pensionable caravan tugger waving your stick at us), it's not what we want to read about. Tell us about fast cars, it's what we like.
Regards,
Mark
I have to agree with this article - you don't want to be giving the anti-car lobby any ammunition like this. I bought Autocar for many years before I stopped buying magazines, prefering to get the information I wanted from the web. I'm a bit disappointed that standards seem to be slipping in this direction - they always used to include articles and booklets about improving your driving and enjoying spirited driving in safety. Can't believe anyone would be so stupid as to brag about driving with their eyes shut and then write about it in the national press!
People have a big responsibility when they are behind the wheel on public roads - exiting a corner sideways with a load of opposite lock maybe ok on a track, but it has no place on public roads where there is no telling what could be round the corner, specially on a narrow country road
People have a big responsibility when they are behind the wheel on public roads - exiting a corner sideways with a load of opposite lock maybe ok on a track, but it has no place on public roads where there is no telling what could be round the corner, specially on a narrow country road
An excellent critic and a very relevant article. However, I beg to differ on a few points concerning evo mag. First, they do take into account 'real world' usability - see NSX vs. Zonda and secondly, they tend to limit on-the-limit handling tests to tracks - but I have to admit this is not always the cases, e.g. the Jag, porker, Maser trash on the Mont Ventoux in France.
Hmm... I can see Mr Farago's point here. It's a bit like Top Gear / 5th Gear / Drivel etc etc... screetching away from the lights, with tyres smoking... in a Honda Jazz. 
hmm... yeah, really clever... and doing donuts, handbrake turns... 
- personally I want to know what the car can do, without having to replace the rubber every 2000 miles...
hmm... yeah, really clever... and doing donuts, handbrake turns... - personally I want to know what the car can do, without having to replace the rubber every 2000 miles...Although I have to agree with the points regarding sutcliffs driving, I think youl find that EVO has in recent issues at least promoted HPC and advanced driving courses in genral. I also have to take issue with the idea that this is a new thing, dig out some old copies of fast lane or performance car and I am fairly certian you will find the odd motoring misdemeanour.
Yes. I take Robert's point completely. Including the responsibility of car photographers to ensure that the blasted fog lights are switched off....
Don't get me wrong - I like EVO (and the like). Particularly the on-track reviews. I LIKE automotive pornography. But (like tha majority of readers I expect) do not expect to repeat on-track adventures on the public highway.
But maybe the yoof do. Personally I'd credit the majority of 'em with more intelligence. But that may just be me. I'm an optimist like that...
Don't get me wrong - I like EVO (and the like). Particularly the on-track reviews. I LIKE automotive pornography. But (like tha majority of readers I expect) do not expect to repeat on-track adventures on the public highway.
But maybe the yoof do. Personally I'd credit the majority of 'em with more intelligence. But that may just be me. I'm an optimist like that...
"Get the entry right, shovel in the power, and the outcome is much the same: storming pace, terrific grip, mild understeer that can be trimmed with the throttle."? Oooh! Scary! 
Hmm. Sure, evo was without a doubt responsible for other magazines - Car and Autocar most notably - upping their game: they knew a threat when they saw it. But I can't ever recall evo encouraging irresponsible behaviour on public roads - not beyond anything that Mr Farago himself wouldn't attempt on a road test, anyway.
If Sutcliffe and co have to resort to gonzo acts to get attention then, well, that's their problem, and probably why I, for one, find their style of journalism a complete turn-off.
Hmm. Sure, evo was without a doubt responsible for other magazines - Car and Autocar most notably - upping their game: they knew a threat when they saw it. But I can't ever recall evo encouraging irresponsible behaviour on public roads - not beyond anything that Mr Farago himself wouldn't attempt on a road test, anyway.
If Sutcliffe and co have to resort to gonzo acts to get attention then, well, that's their problem, and probably why I, for one, find their style of journalism a complete turn-off.
I subscribe to AutoCar and remember reading the article in question. The "driving with your eyes closed" bit certainly raised my eyebrows at the time.
If I'd done something as blatantly stupid as that, even in a moment of weakness, I certainly wouldn't admit to it in a magazine with the circulation of AutoCar. Damn, I probably wouldn't even admit to it on PistonHeads!
The other thing I recall thinking was that if their luck had run out, instead of the article I was reading I could so easily have been reading a tribute to Sutcliffe and Harris and the "tragic loss" to motoring journalism after they were killed instantly as a truck pulled out whilst conducting a "high speed road test" of the Lambo.
If I'd done something as blatantly stupid as that, even in a moment of weakness, I certainly wouldn't admit to it in a magazine with the circulation of AutoCar. Damn, I probably wouldn't even admit to it on PistonHeads!
The other thing I recall thinking was that if their luck had run out, instead of the article I was reading I could so easily have been reading a tribute to Sutcliffe and Harris and the "tragic loss" to motoring journalism after they were killed instantly as a truck pulled out whilst conducting a "high speed road test" of the Lambo.
** Contentious post alert: **
Well said Farago !!!!
Seems I'm not the only one who finds Steve Sutcliffe a smug, self backslapping, arrogant odious little twat. Heck, not satisfied with reckless speeding, he also totalled an S Type R late last year. THAT was swept under the carpet PDQ, wasn't it ?
No wonder websites such as our beloved PH are so popular, why ? Well, I'll tell you: because there's not a decent weekly car magazine that's actually a good read. Autocar is grim, full of this sort of "I drove a car really fast, but on an autobahn" nonsensical rubbish. I'll wager the readership has plummeted in recent times because, save the news section (which is full of Photoshop masterpieces ("this is what the Porsche We-Haven't-Thought-Of-It-Yet could look like...." type), its rubbish. Used cars ? Marvellous.
Dear Autocar,
What's my car worth ? Its an average car with average mileage. Grrrrr.....aaaggghh
BUY A COPY OF PARKERS YOU SHORT SIGHTED IMBECILE !!!!!
Two pages of Sutcliffes utterings, most sickworthy. Prose chock full of clueless gimps asking stupid questions, such as:
Dear Steve,
My gran's left me £65,000. Should I buy:
a) A Volvo and a caravan;
b) A Nissan Primera and invest the rest in a nice, safe deposit account;
c) A BMW M5/RS6/E55/TVR/blah blah fcuking blah
Same crap every bloody week. Groundhog Day in print ? You betcha !!
And hey, Auto Express is exactly the same old rubbish. Why, they still run the DIY SOS type section, a la:
Dear Auto Express,
My 1982 Talbot Samara is hesitant to start. Any ideas ?
Tell me - who buys, and actually gets something out of these magazines ? I'll admit, I monotonously buy Autocar, but each week wonder why the hell I did. It passes the time of day whilst on the Kermit, but nothing else, as far as I'm concerned.
Well said Farago !!!!
Seems I'm not the only one who finds Steve Sutcliffe a smug, self backslapping, arrogant odious little twat. Heck, not satisfied with reckless speeding, he also totalled an S Type R late last year. THAT was swept under the carpet PDQ, wasn't it ?
No wonder websites such as our beloved PH are so popular, why ? Well, I'll tell you: because there's not a decent weekly car magazine that's actually a good read. Autocar is grim, full of this sort of "I drove a car really fast, but on an autobahn" nonsensical rubbish. I'll wager the readership has plummeted in recent times because, save the news section (which is full of Photoshop masterpieces ("this is what the Porsche We-Haven't-Thought-Of-It-Yet could look like...." type), its rubbish. Used cars ? Marvellous.
Dear Autocar,
What's my car worth ? Its an average car with average mileage. Grrrrr.....aaaggghh
BUY A COPY OF PARKERS YOU SHORT SIGHTED IMBECILE !!!!! Two pages of Sutcliffes utterings, most sickworthy. Prose chock full of clueless gimps asking stupid questions, such as:
Dear Steve,
My gran's left me £65,000. Should I buy:
a) A Volvo and a caravan;
b) A Nissan Primera and invest the rest in a nice, safe deposit account;
c) A BMW M5/RS6/E55/TVR/blah blah fcuking blah
Same crap every bloody week. Groundhog Day in print ? You betcha !!
And hey, Auto Express is exactly the same old rubbish. Why, they still run the DIY SOS type section, a la:
Dear Auto Express,
My 1982 Talbot Samara is hesitant to start. Any ideas ?
Tell me - who buys, and actually gets something out of these magazines ? I'll admit, I monotonously buy Autocar, but each week wonder why the hell I did. It passes the time of day whilst on the Kermit, but nothing else, as far as I'm concerned.
This Sutcliffe guy is obviously a peckerhead.
Ill bet hes one of these dinks that drives down country lanes at night with no lights on seeing how fast he can go.
Theres far too many of these kinds of gurning max-muppet type folks masquerading as "journos in the know".
All hes succeeded in doing is providing the opposition with large dollops of sticky mud type ammo to throw.
Now if hed done his "eyes wide shut" stunt on a track, then ok, but on a public highway? Is he of lower than average Iq or what?
Never ceases to amaze me how many fools are actually given a license to kill.
If the mag hes writing for has any morals at all theyll fire his ass and hell never work in the business again.
We dont need this kind of "artistic writing", it has no place in a so-called performance mag.
Do the decent thing and lose him.
Ill bet hes one of these dinks that drives down country lanes at night with no lights on seeing how fast he can go.
Theres far too many of these kinds of gurning max-muppet type folks masquerading as "journos in the know".
All hes succeeded in doing is providing the opposition with large dollops of sticky mud type ammo to throw.
Now if hed done his "eyes wide shut" stunt on a track, then ok, but on a public highway? Is he of lower than average Iq or what?
Never ceases to amaze me how many fools are actually given a license to kill.
If the mag hes writing for has any morals at all theyll fire his ass and hell never work in the business again.
We dont need this kind of "artistic writing", it has no place in a so-called performance mag.
Do the decent thing and lose him.
Steve Sutcliffe is the Motoring Editor, so I would presume that he's only answerable to Steve Fowler the Editor of AutoCar. I would imagine that this gives Sutcliffe the ability to bypass a lot of the scrutiny that a more junior member of the team would be subject to.
dazren said:Worryingly the Editor would have approved the article, so presumably the Editor should be walking the plank as well?
>> Edited by JonRB on Monday 13th January 11:09
1. Hmmm don't know anything about this sutcliffe chap but it seems a bit silly to boast about doing something as dim as driving with your eyes shut! + I cannot criticise his speed as I am guilty myself of tending to push as hard as poss in whatever car i'm in at the time (ESPECIALLY hire cars! lol).
2. I assume I am in the age bracket referred to as "car crazed youngsters" (I'm 20) but I can assure you my urge to take roundabouts at 65mph in the wet just to get lift off oversteer comes purely from within - I have never read Autocar/Express/whatever. Apart from this (rant over) I broadly agree with the feeling of rage re crap journo who thinks he's tuff
ITHANKYOU
2. I assume I am in the age bracket referred to as "car crazed youngsters" (I'm 20) but I can assure you my urge to take roundabouts at 65mph in the wet just to get lift off oversteer comes purely from within - I have never read Autocar/Express/whatever. Apart from this (rant over) I broadly agree with the feeling of rage re crap journo who thinks he's tuff
ITHANKYOU
I read Autocar for the news section and the non-sensational parts of the road tests, and subscribe to EVO and Autosport simply to find out what's happening in the motoring world.
Sadly hype has overtaken reality, and you have to take an awful lot of what you read with a huge pinch of salt.
Mr. Sutcliffe is undoubtedly an expert wheel-man, but he and his ilk have been giving me a sizeable inferiority complex these last few years.
I do not hang it out on the public road. I do not want to hang it out on the public road - ever! OK, I make mistakes - we all do - but the fewer the better. There is an optimum speed for every corner, just below the limit of adhesion, and tidy fast driving is just that - tidy!
Yes, I break the speed limit from time to time, but when and where is my decision, and I'm circumspect in the obvious no-no places. Quite how the road-testers get away with their published antics in Wales defeats me to the extent that I begin to disbelieve the truth of what they write, and I'm a little tired of their endless language-twisting superlatives too.
A massive ego-trip? I think so.
Signed, with sincere regret,
Ian.
Sadly hype has overtaken reality, and you have to take an awful lot of what you read with a huge pinch of salt.
Mr. Sutcliffe is undoubtedly an expert wheel-man, but he and his ilk have been giving me a sizeable inferiority complex these last few years.
I do not hang it out on the public road. I do not want to hang it out on the public road - ever! OK, I make mistakes - we all do - but the fewer the better. There is an optimum speed for every corner, just below the limit of adhesion, and tidy fast driving is just that - tidy!
Yes, I break the speed limit from time to time, but when and where is my decision, and I'm circumspect in the obvious no-no places. Quite how the road-testers get away with their published antics in Wales defeats me to the extent that I begin to disbelieve the truth of what they write, and I'm a little tired of their endless language-twisting superlatives too.
A massive ego-trip? I think so.
Signed, with sincere regret,
Ian.
Dear Robert,
I couldn't agree more, knobs like Steve Sutcliffe are the sort idiots that provoke anti s into getting laws tightend. He also underminds his readership hudgely.I can only suggest that he goes and works for max power , and you become editor of Evo. I did however enjoy very much your piece on road racing (not a piece for your future @ Evo)
Best regards
Joe cc Dennis publishing
I couldn't agree more, knobs like Steve Sutcliffe are the sort idiots that provoke anti s into getting laws tightend. He also underminds his readership hudgely.I can only suggest that he goes and works for max power , and you become editor of Evo. I did however enjoy very much your piece on road racing (not a piece for your future @ Evo)
Best regards
Joe cc Dennis publishing
Dear Robert,
I couldn't agree more, knobs like Steve Sutcliffe are the sort idiots that provoke anti s into getting laws tightend. He also underminds his readership hudgely.I can only suggest that he goes and works for max power , and you become editor of Evo. I did however enjoy very much your piece on road racing (not a piece for your future @ Evo)
Best regards
Joe cc Dennis publishing
I couldn't agree more, knobs like Steve Sutcliffe are the sort idiots that provoke anti s into getting laws tightend. He also underminds his readership hudgely.I can only suggest that he goes and works for max power , and you become editor of Evo. I did however enjoy very much your piece on road racing (not a piece for your future @ Evo)
Best regards
Joe cc Dennis publishing
Speed Matters | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff