RE: Bang 'em Up
Friday 21st February 2003
Bang 'em Up
Tougher sentances for falling asleep at the wheel
New stricter jail terms are being recommended by the Government's Sentencing Advisory Panel. They've looked at the sentances dished out to drivers who have been prosecuted for offences such as falling asleep at the wheel or using a mobile phone while driving.
They're recommending that such offences should always carry a custodial sentances. Previously such matters have been considered mitigating factors. The Sentancing Panel want them seen as aggravating factors.
Discussion
So sir Alex wont get prosecuted for kicking a boot at Beckham (assault in anyones book) but driving off afterwards on the mobile will put him in clink?
World gone mad
Perhaps they could dream up an endorsement scheme for rapists.
Do it once you get 3 points, a child 9, repeat offend & get 12 points you go to gaol.
Would they hang a jump jockey if he uses his mobile in his car on a racecourse?
World gone mad
Perhaps they could dream up an endorsement scheme for rapists.
Do it once you get 3 points, a child 9, repeat offend & get 12 points you go to gaol.
Would they hang a jump jockey if he uses his mobile in his car on a racecourse?
I believe that the logic goes something like this:
If you're feeling tired, you should pull over and rest. If you fall asleep, you must have been driving while tired.
If you kill somebody because you fell asleep, it's your fault, as you could (and should) have rested when you felt tired.
If you kill somebody through something that you do (deliberate or not) you should be punished.
I drive a long way to work each day. I sometimes feel sleepy while driving. When this happens, I pull over at the next possible place, and have a rest. I usually find that getting out and walking around for a couple of minutes does the trick, although I have been known to have a bit of a sleep. I end up arriving at my destination a bit later, but I arrive (and so does everybody driving around me).
James
If you're feeling tired, you should pull over and rest. If you fall asleep, you must have been driving while tired.
If you kill somebody because you fell asleep, it's your fault, as you could (and should) have rested when you felt tired.
If you kill somebody through something that you do (deliberate or not) you should be punished.
I drive a long way to work each day. I sometimes feel sleepy while driving. When this happens, I pull over at the next possible place, and have a rest. I usually find that getting out and walking around for a couple of minutes does the trick, although I have been known to have a bit of a sleep. I end up arriving at my destination a bit later, but I arrive (and so does everybody driving around me).
James
:boring mode on:
As part of my course, I study philosophy and the foundations of law creation. Having compared the likes of Jean-Jacques Rousseau and John Stuart Mill to the current laws we have today, it's quite clear that few, if any are truly ethical, either to enforce the viewpoint of a minority (the government) over a silenced majority (us), or simply to collect revenue (which constitutes a minor invasion of privacy in 'stealth tax' form.)
:boring mode off:
B@STARDS B@STARDS B@STARDS NUMPTY CONTROLFREAK B@STARDS.
As part of my course, I study philosophy and the foundations of law creation. Having compared the likes of Jean-Jacques Rousseau and John Stuart Mill to the current laws we have today, it's quite clear that few, if any are truly ethical, either to enforce the viewpoint of a minority (the government) over a silenced majority (us), or simply to collect revenue (which constitutes a minor invasion of privacy in 'stealth tax' form.)
:boring mode off:
B@STARDS B@STARDS B@STARDS NUMPTY CONTROLFREAK B@STARDS.
DanL said: So burglars shouldn't go to prison, but if I take a call on my mobile whilst driving I should? Nice...
To a certain extent I can see the point, but surely existing law takes care of things - do we really need specific laws against driving whilst on the phone/eating/etc?
Dan
You seem to forget that burglars are part of the population that do not care about anything. They have little to lose other than what they have previously stolen from someone else which can be easily replaced by the same means.
You however, are part of the population who must be controlled at all costs and examples made at every possible chance available. You will have a grteat deal to lose by being made an example of, maybe a job, house, mortgage, wife, family car etc. You care about that obviously. That is why punishments such as these are effective on the law abiding sections of society because they do not want the loss of either material goods, relationships and their reputation.
The only reputation a burglar has is amongst his fellow burglars as to how good he is!!!!
If its distractions then what about searchin for that tape that fell under your seat etc. I know its not right but are they trying to target things that are making the news?
How many school run mums/dads have I seen trying to sort out the little darlings rather than concentrating on the job in hand, driving.
And no, I am not a perfect driver.
Not getting caught
How many school run mums/dads have I seen trying to sort out the little darlings rather than concentrating on the job in hand, driving.
And no, I am not a perfect driver.
The only reputation a burglar has is amongst his fellow burglars as to how good he is!!!!
Not getting caught
Not sure how "Falling asleep at the wheel" could be proven "beyond reasonable doubt".
If you had the choice of admitting snoozing (and taking a jail sentence) or adamantly sticking to your story of "A cat/dog/squirrel ran out and distracted me", what would you choose?
I know driving while drowsy is dangerous, just curious as to how the evidence could be presented.
If you had the choice of admitting snoozing (and taking a jail sentence) or adamantly sticking to your story of "A cat/dog/squirrel ran out and distracted me", what would you choose?
I know driving while drowsy is dangerous, just curious as to how the evidence could be presented.
Isn't this a reaction to the prat who flew off a motorway and took out a train a few minutes later killing a number of train passengers? I think the CPS provided evidence the driver had spent most of the previous evening on the Net and had had bugger all sleep in the previous 24 hours.
Interesting how they can develope a law which they can never enforce on the basis they can't prove if a dog ran out etc......
DAZ
Interesting how they can develope a law which they can never enforce on the basis they can't prove if a dog ran out etc......
DAZ
Tabs said: If a dog runs out you'd leave skid marks, if you doze off you hit something without braking. Incidently, I understand Plod can work out impact speed from length of skid marks; are different methods used if the vehicle had ABS?
You won't leave skid marks in the wet or if you're a numpty running "long life tyres" that have the characteristics of running on plastic rather than rubber.
DAZ
Tabs said: If a dog runs out you'd leave skid marks, if you doze off you hit something without braking. Incidently, I understand Plod can work out impact speed from length of skid marks; are different methods used if the vehicle had ABS?
They can take a wild guessimate at best.
We had a copper come to a physics class when I was at school and explain the technique. After almost evey pupil had pointed out various flaws in the technique he admitted it was not overly accurate and was only used to try and build up a picture of events.
Imagine a car pulling out of a side road just in front of you. You slam on, lock up and milliseconds later hit the side of the car. To calculate the speed of the car, not only would you need to get the length of the skid marks and the frictional coefficients for the particiular tyre/road surface but also how much force it took to crumple the front of your car/side of the other car and the total length of crumpled bodywork. The amount of assumptions and estimates that need to be made in doing this means the accuracy of the result is always in some doubt.
Well some police can't make up their minds about this. Drove back from Bournemouth home - 250 miles - from Sunseeker Rally having dropped through gearbox failure in rally car. No available hotel rooms to stay in Bournemouth. Feeling rather tired by midnight decided to have a doze in layby at Stroud just before M5. Woken up after 20 mins by plod banging on the window - are you all right sir ???? - explained situtaion - aaaahhh very sensible sir - have a safe trip. FFS - OK, Was I upside down in the carriageway??? or perhaps vertically up a bank ? Nooo ! apart from the crystal clarity that the adrenaline rush gave for the next 50 miles why could I not have had another 20 mins decent sleep.
So you are banged up if you fall asleep and given the sleep deprivation treatment if you try to do something responsible about it.
So you are banged up if you fall asleep and given the sleep deprivation treatment if you try to do something responsible about it.
You may have been taken ill and decided to pull over, they were probably only trying to help (can't beleive i'm sticking up for the Police 
*)
As for people that drive when they shouldn't through drunk/sleep deprivation, they should be hit on the head with a length of 2x4 with a nail in the end.
* And yes, I know some nice ones myself, but while it's not the individual officers fault, they are pretty much useless these days, unless you get murdered, then it's a bit too late..
*) As for people that drive when they shouldn't through drunk/sleep deprivation, they should be hit on the head with a length of 2x4 with a nail in the end.
* And yes, I know some nice ones myself, but while it's not the individual officers fault, they are pretty much useless these days, unless you get murdered, then it's a bit too late..
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