2900 miles in eight days
Discussion
Just covered 2900 miles in the last eight days through Engalnd, France, Italy, Switzerland, Italy (again), Switzerland (again), Italy (again), Switzerland (again), France (again), before returning back to Engalnd.
Ambient temperatures were in the high 30's, but the car performed almost faultlessly. Problems were: -
o Car struggled at the top of Stelvio (air was too thin and it would breathe properly)
o Starter motor started cooking itself and a couple of times wouldn't engage
o Occasional problems selecting gears when very hot
o Over heated badly queueing for the Eurotunnel (110+ on the temp guage)
Off to get it serviced next week, and talk about cooling as even on the autoroutes maintaining 3000 rpm water temp. remained at 90 degrees and oil temp was about 75, and things only went skyward when we got stuck in traffic.
Neil.
Ambient temperatures were in the high 30's, but the car performed almost faultlessly. Problems were: -
o Car struggled at the top of Stelvio (air was too thin and it would breathe properly)
o Starter motor started cooking itself and a couple of times wouldn't engage
o Occasional problems selecting gears when very hot
o Over heated badly queueing for the Eurotunnel (110+ on the temp guage)
Off to get it serviced next week, and talk about cooling as even on the autoroutes maintaining 3000 rpm water temp. remained at 90 degrees and oil temp was about 75, and things only went skyward when we got stuck in traffic.
Neil.
Nice one! Very interesting..doing something similar myself in few weeks.
Eurotunnel-France-Genvea (via Dijon/Jura mountains)..a few tunnels whilst Im there!
- then same route back. Should be good as the French and Swiss in this area seldom even see a TVR..
Gunna try some of that water wetter stuff to see if its as good as they say.
Eurotunnel-France-Genvea (via Dijon/Jura mountains)..a few tunnels whilst Im there!
- then same route back. Should be good as the French and Swiss in this area seldom even see a TVR.. Gunna try some of that water wetter stuff to see if its as good as they say.
I'm also off to France in a couple of weeks, and my main concern is overheating, during the recent hot weather the guage was almost always at about the 100 mark, and up to 110 in heavy traffic. I've ordered a small front number plate in attempt to let more air in through the grille - dont know if it will make much difference, we'll see.
I put some water wetter in, but I honestly dont think it lowers the temperature, it just prevents hot spots forming.
Apparently Anti-freeze raises reduces the efficiency of water to dissipate heat, so the engine will run warmer. 100% water is the most efficent way to dissipate heat, so I'm thinking of draining the cooling system and just using water.
I put some water wetter in, but I honestly dont think it lowers the temperature, it just prevents hot spots forming.
Apparently Anti-freeze raises reduces the efficiency of water to dissipate heat, so the engine will run warmer. 100% water is the most efficent way to dissipate heat, so I'm thinking of draining the cooling system and just using water.
It may be of some consolation, I just did 3k hooning all over france after we did Le Mans Classic. temp gauge rarely raises above 105 here, but in 37* in France it was well into 110 and up against the gauge stop. Even when stuck in traffic there were no problems, as soon as I was able to drive with airflow entering the scoops, the gauce settled around 100-105.
Checked the levels every night, and although I used a little more oil than usual (prob due to the higher temp ....and heavy right boot ) coolent levels were as normal.
ensure you use a very good quality coolant/antifreeze (red glycol product) and all should be well.
And most of all enjoy your trip...and put the usual (TVR cartoon Head...what was that noise?...etc) to the back of your mind and go for it....remember why you bought the greatest thing money can buy for a budget.... a Cerb is for life..not just Sunday Hoons.
with the correct amount of preventional maintennence and care, i doubt you will ever find anything as reliable with the same levels of performance and miles of smiles.
Good luck on your tip and don't forget to post a few piccys.
Cooky
Checked the levels every night, and although I used a little more oil than usual (prob due to the higher temp ....and heavy right boot
) coolent levels were as normal. ensure you use a very good quality coolant/antifreeze (red glycol product) and all should be well.
And most of all enjoy your trip...and put the usual (TVR cartoon Head...what was that noise?...etc) to the back of your mind and go for it....remember why you bought the greatest thing money can buy for a budget.... a Cerb is for life..not just Sunday Hoons.
with the correct amount of preventional maintennence and care, i doubt you will ever find anything as reliable with the same levels of performance and miles of smiles.
Good luck on your tip and don't forget to post a few piccys.
Cooky
jensena said:
I've ordered a small front number plate in attempt to let more air in through the grille - dont know if it will make much difference, we'll see.
Won't make a difference, I was 'adjusting' my front plate and it 'fell' off in my hands.
This didn't appear to make a difference to the temps. The biggest problem I found was the temperature in the cabin; should have got a thermometer, but I wouldn't be surprised if at times it was 50+.
Neil.
Hi there,
We are planning to take the Cerbera over to Europe next week for ten days. We are due to be leaving on Friday 28th and will be going from Calais to Copenhagen (via Hamburg), then over to Sweden, back into Denmark, over to Aarhus and then back down to Calais (via Antwerp).
Have just had the car serviced (6,000 miles) and also had the clutch replaced a few weeks ago. Have taken the car over to France before but not covered this sort of distance. 'Other Half' would rather we take the other car, but I am keen to use the Cerby!
Any tips or recommendations for making the trip as 'trouble free' as poss?????
Cerby4.5
We are planning to take the Cerbera over to Europe next week for ten days. We are due to be leaving on Friday 28th and will be going from Calais to Copenhagen (via Hamburg), then over to Sweden, back into Denmark, over to Aarhus and then back down to Calais (via Antwerp).
Have just had the car serviced (6,000 miles) and also had the clutch replaced a few weeks ago. Have taken the car over to France before but not covered this sort of distance. 'Other Half' would rather we take the other car, but I am keen to use the Cerby!
Any tips or recommendations for making the trip as 'trouble free' as poss?????
Cerby4.5
cerby4.5 said:
Hi there,
We are planning to take the Cerbera over to Europe next week for ten days. We are due to be leaving on Friday 28th and will be going from Calais to Copenhagen (via Hamburg), then over to Sweden, back into Denmark, over to Aarhus and then back down to Calais (via Antwerp).
Have just had the car serviced (6,000 miles) and also had the clutch replaced a few weeks ago. Have taken the car over to France before but not covered this sort of distance. 'Other Half' would rather we take the other car, but I am keen to use the Cerby!
Any tips or recommendations for making the trip as 'trouble free' as poss?????
Cerby4.5
We are planning to take the Cerbera over to Europe next week for ten days. We are due to be leaving on Friday 28th and will be going from Calais to Copenhagen (via Hamburg), then over to Sweden, back into Denmark, over to Aarhus and then back down to Calais (via Antwerp).
Have just had the car serviced (6,000 miles) and also had the clutch replaced a few weeks ago. Have taken the car over to France before but not covered this sort of distance. 'Other Half' would rather we take the other car, but I am keen to use the Cerby!
Any tips or recommendations for making the trip as 'trouble free' as poss?????
Cerby4.5
Hiya,
make sure you have good breakdown/recovery cover, ensure there is onward travel cover and a hire car....if this is in place, then forget about worrying is the car going to make it....enjoy yourselves and drive its nuts off... it will thank you for it
cerby4.5 said:
Hi there,
We are planning to take the Cerbera over to Europe next week for ten days. We are due to be leaving on Friday 28th and will be going from Calais to Copenhagen (via Hamburg), then over to Sweden, back into Denmark, over to Aarhus and then back down to Calais (via Antwerp).
Have just had the car serviced (6,000 miles) and also had the clutch replaced a few weeks ago. Have taken the car over to France before but not covered this sort of distance. 'Other Half' would rather we take the other car, but I am keen to use the Cerby!
Any tips or recommendations for making the trip as 'trouble free' as poss?????
Cerby4.5
We are planning to take the Cerbera over to Europe next week for ten days. We are due to be leaving on Friday 28th and will be going from Calais to Copenhagen (via Hamburg), then over to Sweden, back into Denmark, over to Aarhus and then back down to Calais (via Antwerp).
Have just had the car serviced (6,000 miles) and also had the clutch replaced a few weeks ago. Have taken the car over to France before but not covered this sort of distance. 'Other Half' would rather we take the other car, but I am keen to use the Cerby!
Any tips or recommendations for making the trip as 'trouble free' as poss?????
Cerby4.5
Hi - I covered the same (ish!) route as Neilus.
Things I wish I had...
- manual fan override switch; and/or
- modified ECU that switches fans in earlier.
Not having them wasn't a problem BUT I needed to 'manage' the water temperature carefully.:
- Switch off aircon when temperature begins to creep - gives you a bit of time to get moving/airflow again
- If temp gets high, STOP. Switch off engine, then switch ignition back on (fully on, i.e. squawking dash) so fans can work. Only takes a few minutes to blow 15 degrees out.
- If heat soak gets severe, you may get a soft clutch pedal if the slave cylinder gets a chance to boil the fluid. Early warning signs are stiff gears, the soft pedal (like fade in the brakes). STOP - it takes about 30 mins of hood up and fans on (as above) to blow the heat out enough to get going again. Err on the side of caution - the last thing you want is slave cylinder failure.
Provided you don't get stuck in stationary/ultra-slow situations for too long, you won't have a problem with temperature. I found water was typically about 50degrees above ambient, oil 30 degrees above ambient. If anything, Cerbera oil temps are too low - a healthy oil temp would be 100+ but the Boss Cerbera could only get oil over 100 if water was there too.
"Worst case" for me was following coaches up steep alpine passes at <10mph stopping and starting.
cerby4.5 said:
Cheers Chaps!
Many thanks for the info. I have full European cover etc via the AA, so I wil double check that it does provide those elements you mentioned and then we are off......
A helpful lot....you fellow PH'ers!!
Regards,
Cerby4.5
Many thanks for the info. I have full European cover etc via the AA, so I wil double check that it does provide those elements you mentioned and then we are off......
A helpful lot....you fellow PH'ers!!
Regards,
Cerby4.5
I'd get RAC breakdown cover rather than AA. I've just been on the same trip as Neil and Phil and we had 3 breakdowns. 2 had AA cover and their cars will be back in the UK "in the next few weeks" and then they had a battle to get even a hire car sorted. The one guy with RAC cover, was put up in a hotel overnight and flown back home next day at the RAC's expense and his car will be back this week.
As for the hoon I can only concur with the above. I'm so glad I did a full strip down and rebuild of my cooling system 3 months ago as the cerb ran at 89-90 most of the time. I had to stop once going up a French mountain when it hit 102 but with scenery like this to look at while she cooled down it wasn't a problem...
Apart from that, even in Italian roadwork traffic it only hit 96-98. The major problem was altitude. She ran like a dog at 9000ft, coughing, popping and banging, would not idle at all when stopped, so had to keep dipping the clutch, out of gear, left foot braking with right foot holding the revs up. Apart from also losing windscreen wipers on day 2 of eight and a weird squeaking noise to investigate the Cerb did me proud for all of the 3000 miles I covered.
Edited by SlvrCrb on Monday 24th July 08:33
jensena said:
I'm also off to France in a couple of weeks, and my main concern is overheating, during the recent hot weather the guage was almost always at about the 100 mark, and up to 110 in heavy traffic. I've ordered a small front number plate in attempt to let more air in through the grille - dont know if it will make much difference, we'll see.
I put some water wetter in, but I honestly dont think it lowers the temperature, it just prevents hot spots forming.
Apparently Anti-freeze raises reduces the efficiency of water to dissipate heat, so the engine will run warmer. 100% water is the most efficent way to dissipate heat, so I'm thinking of draining the cooling system and just using water.
I put some water wetter in, but I honestly dont think it lowers the temperature, it just prevents hot spots forming.
Apparently Anti-freeze raises reduces the efficiency of water to dissipate heat, so the engine will run warmer. 100% water is the most efficent way to dissipate heat, so I'm thinking of draining the cooling system and just using water.
jensena - this is exactly what i did, i left what was in the system as i've been told the antifreeze does contain chemicals to protect the block. i used 2 bottles of water-wetter.
dean_ratpac said:
jensena said:
I'm also off to France in a couple of weeks, and my main concern is overheating, during the recent hot weather the guage was almost always at about the 100 mark, and up to 110 in heavy traffic. I've ordered a small front number plate in attempt to let more air in through the grille - dont know if it will make much difference, we'll see.
I put some water wetter in, but I honestly dont think it lowers the temperature, it just prevents hot spots forming.
Apparently Anti-freeze raises reduces the efficiency of water to dissipate heat, so the engine will run warmer. 100% water is the most efficent way to dissipate heat, so I'm thinking of draining the cooling system and just using water.
I put some water wetter in, but I honestly dont think it lowers the temperature, it just prevents hot spots forming.
Apparently Anti-freeze raises reduces the efficiency of water to dissipate heat, so the engine will run warmer. 100% water is the most efficent way to dissipate heat, so I'm thinking of draining the cooling system and just using water.
jensena - this is exactly what i did, i left what was in the system as i've been told the antifreeze does contain chemicals to protect the block. i used 2 bottles of water-wetter.
The anti-freeze acts as a corrosion inhibitor. If I remember right, there are steel bolts used to secure the cylinder heads, which sit in the coolant permanently. While plain water is the best coolant, it shouldn't be used in the case of the AJP8.
Steve.
jensena said:
I'm also off to France in a couple of weeks, and my main concern is overheating, during the recent hot weather the guage was almost always at about the 100 mark, and up to 110 in heavy traffic. I've ordered a small front number plate in attempt to let more air in through the grille - dont know if it will make much difference, we'll see.
I put some water wetter in, but I honestly dont think it lowers the temperature, it just prevents hot spots forming.
Apparently Anti-freeze raises reduces the efficiency of water to dissipate heat, so the engine will run warmer. 100% water is the most efficent way to dissipate heat, so I'm thinking of draining the cooling system and just using water.
I put some water wetter in, but I honestly dont think it lowers the temperature, it just prevents hot spots forming.
Apparently Anti-freeze raises reduces the efficiency of water to dissipate heat, so the engine will run warmer. 100% water is the most efficent way to dissipate heat, so I'm thinking of draining the cooling system and just using water.
i find water wetter is a life saver in my griff. find 100% water struggles to cope and that's in manchester traffic. i'd be scared witless in mainland europe.
i'd definitely use wetter in a cerb during summer when anti-freeze isn't requred
I think the FB5K trip exposed a few things about TVR's development efforts. The engine-mapping struggled to cope with altitude, temperature and poor fuel (and combinations thereof). To put this into perspective though, the Ferraris and Porsches on the trip suffered from the same things albeit to a lesser degree.
Although I haven't done a sweltering Europe run in my 4.5 yet, I'd be pretty confident that Joolz's ECU mods would help greatly. Certainly in 30+ degree UK traffic jams, the water temperature gauge is rock steady pointing straight down. All that weird snapping over to the right has gone. If you have time before your trip, I'd recommend a run up to Joolz.
The oddest thing about the Cerbera though is how COLD the oil runs. Not unless the water is on the verge of vaporising does the oil reach the 100 - 110 operating temperature it really needs. In a car I race, we don't give the engine any stick until 100, expect to run the race at about 120 and the warning light is set at 140. The Boss Cerbera runs at between 50 and 70 - generally in the low 60s - the oil typically 20 degrees below the water temperature. I have to wonder if below-optimum oil temperatures have a bearing on 'reliability'/longevity issues. With hi-tech lubricants like Mobil 1, engines ought to able to virtually avoid any wear at all.
Water temperature is manageable though - just pay attention to the gauge and if in doubt, stop the engine and switch the ignition back on so the fans can run. They will blow 15 degrees or more out of the system in under 10 minutes (even when the ambient temp is high 30s).
The problem that worried me the most though was the clutch hydraulics. Heat soak in the driveline would first make gear selection stiff (earliest warning) then lead to a soggy clutch pedal (like brake fade). TVRs are not alone in having this problem, a spirited drive in an F40 on a hot day can achieve the same result.
It strikes me that these little things, simply by listening to customers, could be engineered out by TVR at little or no R&D cost to themselves - and with the possibility of owners happily buying 'hot weather mods'. Personally, I don't mind having to 'manage' my car's foibles but it's easy to imagine how wayward water/oil temperatures and boiling clutch fluid (if not considered by the driver) can put yet another TVR on the lowloader very easily.
Although I haven't done a sweltering Europe run in my 4.5 yet, I'd be pretty confident that Joolz's ECU mods would help greatly. Certainly in 30+ degree UK traffic jams, the water temperature gauge is rock steady pointing straight down. All that weird snapping over to the right has gone. If you have time before your trip, I'd recommend a run up to Joolz.
The oddest thing about the Cerbera though is how COLD the oil runs. Not unless the water is on the verge of vaporising does the oil reach the 100 - 110 operating temperature it really needs. In a car I race, we don't give the engine any stick until 100, expect to run the race at about 120 and the warning light is set at 140. The Boss Cerbera runs at between 50 and 70 - generally in the low 60s - the oil typically 20 degrees below the water temperature. I have to wonder if below-optimum oil temperatures have a bearing on 'reliability'/longevity issues. With hi-tech lubricants like Mobil 1, engines ought to able to virtually avoid any wear at all.
Water temperature is manageable though - just pay attention to the gauge and if in doubt, stop the engine and switch the ignition back on so the fans can run. They will blow 15 degrees or more out of the system in under 10 minutes (even when the ambient temp is high 30s).
The problem that worried me the most though was the clutch hydraulics. Heat soak in the driveline would first make gear selection stiff (earliest warning) then lead to a soggy clutch pedal (like brake fade). TVRs are not alone in having this problem, a spirited drive in an F40 on a hot day can achieve the same result.
It strikes me that these little things, simply by listening to customers, could be engineered out by TVR at little or no R&D cost to themselves - and with the possibility of owners happily buying 'hot weather mods'. Personally, I don't mind having to 'manage' my car's foibles but it's easy to imagine how wayward water/oil temperatures and boiling clutch fluid (if not considered by the driver) can put yet another TVR on the lowloader very easily.
BossCerbera said:
The oddest thing about the Cerbera though is how COLD the oil runs. Not unless the water is on the verge of vaporising does the oil reach the 100 - 110 operating temperature it really needs. In a car I race, we don't give the engine any stick until 100, expect to run the race at about 120 and the warning light is set at 140. The Boss Cerbera runs at between 50 and 70 - generally in the low 60s - the oil typically 20 degrees below the water temperature. I have to wonder if below-optimum oil temperatures have a bearing on 'reliability'/longevity issues. With hi-tech lubricants like Mobil 1, engines ought to able to virtually avoid any wear at all.
This depends a lot on where the oil temperature is measured though: are you comparing like-for-like in your two example cars? It may be in the Cerbera you are measuring the temperature of oil in the sump (likely to be almost the coolest, especially as it is directly in the airstream) whereas you might want to look at the temperature at the oil filter or the entry/exit of the oil cooler.
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