I'm guessing synchro issue??
Discussion
Hey all
I have a 2002 EP3 Civic Type R with 120,000 on the clock. It's recently had its clutch changed because amongst other things like low biting point, it was getting hard to get into gears. (all common signs of bad clutch on an EP3)
The clutch seems to have really improved the drivability of the car however it's shown up how hard it is to get into 2nd gear - but only when the car is cold and mainly at normal revs. This happens going up or down the box by the way.
For example, I start the car to go to work in the morning, roll up to about 10-15mph in first, clutch down for a normal change into 2nd but then it won't change straight into 2nd unless I double declutch it and even then has a notchy feel to it. If I try to force it in instead of double declutching, it feels very, very notchy and has popped out of gear once or twice doing it this way.
More revs @ 4/5k rpm+ make it less notchy, however don't want to be doing that down my street early in the morning on a cold engine. For the first 5 minutes of driving I just avoid 2nd gear.
These symptoms gradually subside until you have really driven for at least half an hour or so. At that point the gearchange is really great, butter smooth changes and the 2nd gear issue goes away completely. Shame my work is 5 or 10 minutes away!
So, thoughts??
Reading up on the Type R forums apparently this 2nd gear notchyness when cold was or is a massive problem.. I honestly thought I had escaped it as my car had no signs of this until the clutch was showing signs of dying. The value of the car means that it is not worth taking the box out for a synchro change so would any oil additives help? I am keeping the car for the forseeable so not going to offload it on someone else, but I cant justify a gearbox out job!
Thanks for any advice
I have a 2002 EP3 Civic Type R with 120,000 on the clock. It's recently had its clutch changed because amongst other things like low biting point, it was getting hard to get into gears. (all common signs of bad clutch on an EP3)
The clutch seems to have really improved the drivability of the car however it's shown up how hard it is to get into 2nd gear - but only when the car is cold and mainly at normal revs. This happens going up or down the box by the way.
For example, I start the car to go to work in the morning, roll up to about 10-15mph in first, clutch down for a normal change into 2nd but then it won't change straight into 2nd unless I double declutch it and even then has a notchy feel to it. If I try to force it in instead of double declutching, it feels very, very notchy and has popped out of gear once or twice doing it this way.
More revs @ 4/5k rpm+ make it less notchy, however don't want to be doing that down my street early in the morning on a cold engine. For the first 5 minutes of driving I just avoid 2nd gear.
These symptoms gradually subside until you have really driven for at least half an hour or so. At that point the gearchange is really great, butter smooth changes and the 2nd gear issue goes away completely. Shame my work is 5 or 10 minutes away!
So, thoughts??
Reading up on the Type R forums apparently this 2nd gear notchyness when cold was or is a massive problem.. I honestly thought I had escaped it as my car had no signs of this until the clutch was showing signs of dying. The value of the car means that it is not worth taking the box out for a synchro change so would any oil additives help? I am keeping the car for the forseeable so not going to offload it on someone else, but I cant justify a gearbox out job!
Thanks for any advice
Hi
I owned an EP3 and had the gearbox done under warranty for a problem with a balky
2nd gear change but if you had no problems with the gears before the clutch was changed
I would be looking at a incorrectly adjusted gear linkage to start.
There are a lot of variables between a cold engine and gearbox and a hot one regarding gear change and if I remember correctly my EP3 was a little balky into second even after the warranty work on the gearbox was done.
One thing I will add is if it is jumping out of gear you need to sort this ASAP as if it is something simple as a linkage problem then you need to get it sorted. If you let it persist then it will damage the gearbox internals.
Best Regards
Michael
I owned an EP3 and had the gearbox done under warranty for a problem with a balky
2nd gear change but if you had no problems with the gears before the clutch was changed
I would be looking at a incorrectly adjusted gear linkage to start.
There are a lot of variables between a cold engine and gearbox and a hot one regarding gear change and if I remember correctly my EP3 was a little balky into second even after the warranty work on the gearbox was done.
One thing I will add is if it is jumping out of gear you need to sort this ASAP as if it is something simple as a linkage problem then you need to get it sorted. If you let it persist then it will damage the gearbox internals.
Best Regards
Michael
Thanks for the swift replies all.
Just to clarify - every other gearchange is fine when cold, just not 2nd. Clutch feels normal in its operation.
Doubt gear oil would cause the issue just on 2nd gear but its got the reccomended MTF fluid in.
Also this has not just appeared since the clutch change - its just now the clutch has been changed its shown up how 2nd gear has not improved like the other gears have.
I will check the gear linkages in due course but these tend to be good on these cars. However I think an engine mount may be poor as I can occasionally feel the engine rocking on gear changes so would this have an effect on the one gear??
Just to clarify - every other gearchange is fine when cold, just not 2nd. Clutch feels normal in its operation.
Doubt gear oil would cause the issue just on 2nd gear but its got the reccomended MTF fluid in.
Also this has not just appeared since the clutch change - its just now the clutch has been changed its shown up how 2nd gear has not improved like the other gears have.
I will check the gear linkages in due course but these tend to be good on these cars. However I think an engine mount may be poor as I can occasionally feel the engine rocking on gear changes so would this have an effect on the one gear??
seany87 said:
Thanks for the swift replies all.
Just to clarify - every other gearchange is fine when cold, just not 2nd. Clutch feels normal in its operation.
Doubt gear oil would cause the issue just on 2nd gear but its got the reccomended MTF fluid in.
Also this has not just appeared since the clutch change - its just now the clutch has been changed its shown up how 2nd gear has not improved like the other gears have.
I will check the gear linkages in due course but these tend to be good on these cars. However I think an engine mount may be poor as I can occasionally feel the engine rocking on gear changes so would this have an effect on the one gear??
I never said gear oil can cause it, I said sometimes changing gear oil can work wonders. And "correct" oil is a variable. Sometimes the most expensive, biggest name super dooper synthetic oil really isnt the best oil.Just to clarify - every other gearchange is fine when cold, just not 2nd. Clutch feels normal in its operation.
Doubt gear oil would cause the issue just on 2nd gear but its got the reccomended MTF fluid in.
Also this has not just appeared since the clutch change - its just now the clutch has been changed its shown up how 2nd gear has not improved like the other gears have.
I will check the gear linkages in due course but these tend to be good on these cars. However I think an engine mount may be poor as I can occasionally feel the engine rocking on gear changes so would this have an effect on the one gear??
Ultimately friction is required for the synchros to work, so some slippery gear oils just dont help the synchros work so well, especially if they are worn.
On other gearboxes that have started crunching, some gears quite badly crunching a new fill with Castrol Syntrax Universal semi really has worked wonders.
stevieturbo said:
I never said gear oil can cause it, I said sometimes changing gear oil can work wonders. And "correct" oil is a variable. Sometimes the most expensive, biggest name super dooper synthetic oil really isnt the best oil.
Ultimately friction is required for the synchros to work, so some slippery gear oils just dont help the synchros work so well, especially if they are worn.
On other gearboxes that have started crunching, some gears quite badly crunching a new fill with Castrol Syntrax Universal semi really has worked wonders.
MTF is the standard Honda specified oil for these gearboxes, nothing particularly super duper about it other than the price if you buy it at a dealer.Ultimately friction is required for the synchros to work, so some slippery gear oils just dont help the synchros work so well, especially if they are worn.
On other gearboxes that have started crunching, some gears quite badly crunching a new fill with Castrol Syntrax Universal semi really has worked wonders.
Second gear does seem to be particularly problematic on the EP3 for some reason, though mine is on 126k and still feels like a new box (using Honda MTF, clutch and oil changed at 90k).
Mr2Mike said:
MTF is the standard Honda specified oil for these gearboxes, nothing particularly super duper about it other than the price if you buy it at a dealer.
Second gear does seem to be particularly problematic on the EP3 for some reason, though mine is on 126k and still feels like a new box (using Honda MTF, clutch and oil changed at 90k).
But that MTF probably isnt Syntrax.Second gear does seem to be particularly problematic on the EP3 for some reason, though mine is on 126k and still feels like a new box (using Honda MTF, clutch and oil changed at 90k).
All I can say is that Syntrax above all other oils I've tried has completely eliminated some crunching gears on Subaru boxes.
of course there will be a point where the box simply needs fixed, but it's always worth a try.
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