Injector Replaced (Car now stalls and smokes)
Discussion
Hi folks,
Looking for some advice after replacing an injector. Had rocker cover off, everything cleaned up, replacement injector installed.
Have reassembled twice (replaced seals and copper o rings twice) and I still have the same issue.
Car starts. Revs can't get above 1500. Engine often stalls within 20 seconds. Sometimes it stays running. Not enough power to get it moving. No fault codes.
When I remove injectors, they are coated black. I'm fairly certain there is a fuel leak underneath the car too. Looks like it's near the back, as it's wet underneath.
Tried using water (mist) to detect if there is a vacuum leak. Couldn't find anything.
Just looking for some advice on what to try next?
Mega frustrating, as I am certain that the injectors are installed correctly.
I've attached some pics that may help. Any help gratefully received! Even a few pointers on things to try next.
The car is a Hyundai i40 2012 1.7CRDI.
Many thanks,
Joe.
Looking for some advice after replacing an injector. Had rocker cover off, everything cleaned up, replacement injector installed.
Have reassembled twice (replaced seals and copper o rings twice) and I still have the same issue.
Car starts. Revs can't get above 1500. Engine often stalls within 20 seconds. Sometimes it stays running. Not enough power to get it moving. No fault codes.
When I remove injectors, they are coated black. I'm fairly certain there is a fuel leak underneath the car too. Looks like it's near the back, as it's wet underneath.
Tried using water (mist) to detect if there is a vacuum leak. Couldn't find anything.
Just looking for some advice on what to try next?
Mega frustrating, as I am certain that the injectors are installed correctly.
I've attached some pics that may help. Any help gratefully received! Even a few pointers on things to try next.
The car is a Hyundai i40 2012 1.7CRDI.
Many thanks,
Joe.
Edited by Joeninho on Sunday 10th May 15:16
Edited by Joeninho on Sunday 10th May 15:20
If that's diesel & black gunge all over the body of the injector I'd say that the copper rings aren't sealing & you have a serious blowby issue forcing unburnt & partially burnt diesel past the copper seals.
Known as 'the black death' in Mercedes diesels when their copper seals fail.
Are the copper rings new, genuine parts or A.N.Other from ebay or elsewhere?
Are the seats in the head thoroughly clean & undamaged?
Known as 'the black death' in Mercedes diesels when their copper seals fail.
Are the copper rings new, genuine parts or A.N.Other from ebay or elsewhere?
Are the seats in the head thoroughly clean & undamaged?
The copper rings are new - Bosch. Replaced them twice now. Cleaned the injector wells (carefully) with a screwdriver and rag before reassembling yesterday.
I put a little bit of silicon grease on them to hold them on the injector, although I can't be certain that they are sealing properly. Found a busted up copper washer in one of the injector wells yesterday. Not one from when I've been working on it, as they are all accounted for.
I put a little bit of silicon grease on them to hold them on the injector, although I can't be certain that they are sealing properly. Found a busted up copper washer in one of the injector wells yesterday. Not one from when I've been working on it, as they are all accounted for.
If those are the injectors you are working with there is some serious blow-by issues.
It also looks like one of them isn't put together correctly as 1 has the middle body seals flush with the body & the other isn't.
I would personally recommend the following:
1. Remove all injectors, clean & recut the seats and fit new washers, clean all deposits from the injectors, make sure they are torqued down as per manufacturer's spec.
2. Fix the diesel leak at the fuel tank.
3. You will also need to do the re-learn/recal procedures for the car having fitted different injectors, this may require a good code-reader/a visit to your local garage/a visit to your min dealer.
ETA.
As per below, yes they are stretch bolts, so they need to be replaced.
It also looks like one of them isn't put together correctly as 1 has the middle body seals flush with the body & the other isn't.
I would personally recommend the following:
1. Remove all injectors, clean & recut the seats and fit new washers, clean all deposits from the injectors, make sure they are torqued down as per manufacturer's spec.
2. Fix the diesel leak at the fuel tank.
3. You will also need to do the re-learn/recal procedures for the car having fitted different injectors, this may require a good code-reader/a visit to your local garage/a visit to your min dealer.
ETA.
As per below, yes they are stretch bolts, so they need to be replaced.
Edited by E-bmw on Monday 11th May 14:17
The seat cutter will show if the seats are flat & undamaged. Go slowly & check frequently.
I had an issue with MB copper seals, they were very hard & not forming a good seal. Suggested on an MB specific site to use Honda ones which were softer & that worked fine, annealing MB ones was also suggested but I've not tried that.
Are your injector hold down bolts stretch bolts?
If so they are single use only & must be replaced each time. Stretch bolts are usually torqued & then a further angle turn.
If reused they are likely to snap & will not have the correct clamping force - which will mean incorrect sealing.
ETA a quick Google suggests they are stretch bolts.
I had an issue with MB copper seals, they were very hard & not forming a good seal. Suggested on an MB specific site to use Honda ones which were softer & that worked fine, annealing MB ones was also suggested but I've not tried that.
Are your injector hold down bolts stretch bolts?
If so they are single use only & must be replaced each time. Stretch bolts are usually torqued & then a further angle turn.
If reused they are likely to snap & will not have the correct clamping force - which will mean incorrect sealing.
ETA a quick Google suggests they are stretch bolts.
Edited by paintman on Monday 11th May 08:33
When everything is tightened up, are the injectors actually clamped ok ?
Are the new injectors the same and same length etc as the old ?
Are they some spurious injector, or OEM ?
Have they been coded in to the vehicle ?
Although from the dirt etc....seems fairly clear the injector cannot be clamped up correctly for whatever reason, unless it's leaking out the side of a faulty injector, which whilst not impossible, would seem unlikely.
As you seem to suggest it's almost immediately, seems either wrong fitment, or fitted wrong.
Are the new injectors the same and same length etc as the old ?
Are they some spurious injector, or OEM ?
Have they been coded in to the vehicle ?
Although from the dirt etc....seems fairly clear the injector cannot be clamped up correctly for whatever reason, unless it's leaking out the side of a faulty injector, which whilst not impossible, would seem unlikely.
As you seem to suggest it's almost immediately, seems either wrong fitment, or fitted wrong.
Just posting a quick reply to say thanks for all of the advice.
My cutting tool has just arrived today, so about to go out and give it a good clean up.
In terms of the injectors themselves, that is what they look like when they come out with the current situation, although i had them completely cleaned up before replacement. They looked fine, although I have not tested the spray pattern. The plan is to hook them up to a 9v battery to test and clean with some carb cleaner.
Two of the injectors are used from eBay. I've tested them with a multimeter and they appear to be fine.
I must admit to not replacing the stretch bolts. Took a chance on them being fine.
In terms of the fuel leak at the tank, could this be caused by the same issue? Or is it likely a different issue? If so, any pointers on where to look or a likely cause?
Plan is to try all of your recommendations above - I will report back with an update.
Thanks again to all. Hugely helpful.
Joe.
ETA
Injectors came from another Roomster. They all look identical. They are torqued currently and cannot see anything leaking when engine is running.
Coded them correctly, although problem was much worse after this - could be coincidence.
I will try the Honda copper washers.
My cutting tool has just arrived today, so about to go out and give it a good clean up.
In terms of the injectors themselves, that is what they look like when they come out with the current situation, although i had them completely cleaned up before replacement. They looked fine, although I have not tested the spray pattern. The plan is to hook them up to a 9v battery to test and clean with some carb cleaner.
Two of the injectors are used from eBay. I've tested them with a multimeter and they appear to be fine.
I must admit to not replacing the stretch bolts. Took a chance on them being fine.
In terms of the fuel leak at the tank, could this be caused by the same issue? Or is it likely a different issue? If so, any pointers on where to look or a likely cause?
Plan is to try all of your recommendations above - I will report back with an update.
Thanks again to all. Hugely helpful.
Joe.
ETA
Injectors came from another Roomster. They all look identical. They are torqued currently and cannot see anything leaking when engine is running.
Coded them correctly, although problem was much worse after this - could be coincidence.
I will try the Honda copper washers.
Edited by Joeninho on Tuesday 12th May 17:56
Joeninho said:
My cutting tool has just arrived today, so about to go out and give it a good clean up.
Don't forget to keep the resultant swarf out either with an airline into the glow plug hole or similar, you don't want it in the cylinders.Joeninho said:
In terms of the injectors themselves, that is what they look like when they come out with the current situation, although i had them completely cleaned up before replacement. They looked fine, although I have not tested the spray pattern. The plan is to hook them up to a 9v battery to test and clean with some carb cleaner.
9v battery will do nothing, they work at much more than that.Joeninho said:
Two of the injectors are used from eBay. I've tested them with a multimeter and they appear to be fine.
Tesing the coils means precisely nothing, it is how they actually inject fuel that matters.Joeninho said:
I must admit to not replacing the stretch bolts. Took a chance on them being fine.
They need replacing full stop, they are stretched when torqued correctly.Joeninho said:
In terms of the fuel leak at the tank, could this be caused by the same issue? Or is it likely a different issue? If so, any pointers on where to look or a likely cause?
No, not the same, you need to get eyes on & look for the issue, nobody else can see it from here.Joeninho said:
Injectors came from another Roomster. They all look identical. They are torqued currently and cannot see anything leaking when engine is running.
But can you hear the combustion gases leaking when running.Joeninho said:
Coded them correctly, although problem was much worse after this - could be coincidence.
It isn't coincidence, likely the ebay ones are goosed.Joeninho said:
I will try the Honda copper washers.
Brand of washers isn't relevant, size including thickness is important.My Audi A6 3.0 TDI was running rough and on tick over was shaking, took it to a Audi specialist who said they could put new seals in and ream the base but could not guarantee it would fix the problem.
They suggested I took it to a place in Ashford Kent who would take out the injectors to test them and see if they were ok.
Turns out that one injector was faulty and changed that one and coded it to the car and now is running lovely.
So no matter what you do unless checked and recoded the chances are that you will not solve the issue.
They suggested I took it to a place in Ashford Kent who would take out the injectors to test them and see if they were ok.
Turns out that one injector was faulty and changed that one and coded it to the car and now is running lovely.
So no matter what you do unless checked and recoded the chances are that you will not solve the issue.
finlo said:
Injectors came from another Roomster.
Isn't a Roomster a Skoda, I thought these were from a Hyundai?Edited by Joeninho on Tuesday 12th May 17:56
I am also replacing the front wheel bearings on my wife's Roomster, so two jobs currently on the go.
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