Anyone else running open loop?
Discussion
I suppose I really had way more power in BHP and especially torque running maffless but I wanted the car tuned without over fuelling & knock issues and never had the time or resources then to tune it, at that time LSV had no s/w or RR, Wortec got substantial power (500 rwbhp & 550 ft-lbs at the wheels) and now I have only about 10 brake more & not as much torque but it is smoother, quieter & not so smelly.
Ar, I think you will find the GTS 300KW runs closed loop Speed Density, not open loop, as it still uses the O2 sensors for managing fueling.
I was just wondering as the consensis in Oz seems to be that SD gives better throttle response and better max power.
The open loop part was seeing if anyone else has dropped the O2 sensors and is running soley off a nice VE table, maybe to tame larger camshafts etc.
Just wanted to see how far anyone had gone with tuning options as Id like to compare notes etc
I was just wondering as the consensis in Oz seems to be that SD gives better throttle response and better max power.
The open loop part was seeing if anyone else has dropped the O2 sensors and is running soley off a nice VE table, maybe to tame larger camshafts etc.
Just wanted to see how far anyone had gone with tuning options as Id like to compare notes etc
Apologies, you're right! misread question!
Never stuck mine in open loop fueling, but see no reason not too if the maps are close where you need them. i would imagine if you need to sort fueling to correct big cam idling/delivery issues etc then that should work.
On SD throttle response, I've driven MAF and MAFless (GTS 300 vs Clubsport 255 & Monaro CV8) and I feel the throttle does respond quicker as a general rule (could also be 3.91 rear end).
However, it doesn't seem 100% consistent. But I put that down to variable fuel quality as SD mode only runs low octane map so expects performance from the fuel (I fill up anywhere with anything that's convenient).
If running consistent fuel and driving styles then I see no issues using just VE table and closed loop ign.
Not really had any time to play around in anger with HP tuners cable yet, but if I observe anything I will ping you.
Cheers
Eric
>> Edited by v2hsv on Sunday 12th March 14:47
Never stuck mine in open loop fueling, but see no reason not too if the maps are close where you need them. i would imagine if you need to sort fueling to correct big cam idling/delivery issues etc then that should work.
On SD throttle response, I've driven MAF and MAFless (GTS 300 vs Clubsport 255 & Monaro CV8) and I feel the throttle does respond quicker as a general rule (could also be 3.91 rear end).
However, it doesn't seem 100% consistent. But I put that down to variable fuel quality as SD mode only runs low octane map so expects performance from the fuel (I fill up anywhere with anything that's convenient).
If running consistent fuel and driving styles then I see no issues using just VE table and closed loop ign.
Not really had any time to play around in anger with HP tuners cable yet, but if I observe anything I will ping you.
Cheers
Eric
>> Edited by v2hsv on Sunday 12th March 14:47
Ok cool.
Yeah GTS has the same high and low octane tables, as mafless on a stock OS will force PCM into low octane table.
Though in effect the low is the same as high, but without the usual adaptive spark scaling.
You can probably run one of the custom OS's and regain both high and low octane tables (Im using efilive OS3 to do that)
Nice VX GTS you have there. Have you considered an OTRCAI? replacing the convoluted induction system supplied as stock?
Something like this?
Apparently worth 10KW due to colder air and a slight ramair effect. Im hoping to get one shortly.
>> Edited by ringram on Friday 17th March 13:29
Yeah GTS has the same high and low octane tables, as mafless on a stock OS will force PCM into low octane table.
Though in effect the low is the same as high, but without the usual adaptive spark scaling.
You can probably run one of the custom OS's and regain both high and low octane tables (Im using efilive OS3 to do that)
Nice VX GTS you have there. Have you considered an OTRCAI? replacing the convoluted induction system supplied as stock?
Something like this?
Apparently worth 10KW due to colder air and a slight ramair effect. Im hoping to get one shortly.
>> Edited by ringram on Friday 17th March 13:29
[quote=ringram
Have you considered an OTRCAI? replacing the convoluted induction system supplied as stock?
Apparently worth 10KW due to colder air and a slight ramair effect. Im hoping to get one shortly.[/quote]
In the process of fabrication at the moment.But with a bigger size K&N 33-2244 521X83X29
Dave
Have you considered an OTRCAI? replacing the convoluted induction system supplied as stock?
Apparently worth 10KW due to colder air and a slight ramair effect. Im hoping to get one shortly.[/quote]
In the process of fabrication at the moment.But with a bigger size K&N 33-2244 521X83X29
Dave
ringram said:
Ooo, mass production Dave? Or limited run of 1?
Will you be using a MAF with it?
Is it modeled on an existing one?
First one should be done this week.It will be for myself so mafless.Design for maf runners wont be much of a problem! Yes iv'e looked at others, but mine will be in s/s
Dave
ringram said:
You tuning it mafless yourself Dave?
What about heatsoak with the metal?
Id be interested to see what the before and after IAT temps are like.
Mafless tune done last year.Not really concerned about heatsoak as it's done with insulation, so the IAT temps should not be an issue. This is the UK after all
Maybe not a fair comparison, but I run mine open loop most of the time although I'm not using the factory pcm.
I dont know how good or bad my closed loop software is, but I do switch it on occasionally. Sometimes it runs better, sometimes worse. Thats probably more down to me trying to make it run leaner than it wants to when in closed, for fuel economy.
Where is the IAT located in the standard cars ? I thought it was in the MAF ? What do you do for charge temp with you dump the MAF ?
I dont know how good or bad my closed loop software is, but I do switch it on occasionally. Sometimes it runs better, sometimes worse. Thats probably more down to me trying to make it run leaner than it wants to when in closed, for fuel economy.
Where is the IAT located in the standard cars ? I thought it was in the MAF ? What do you do for charge temp with you dump the MAF ?
MAF motors seem to have IAT in the MAF.
On my VX GTS 300 the IAT is drilled into the bottom of the intake pipe (I am hesitant to call it the MAF pipe on a MAFless car).
I have had it connected and disconnected (under the theory that MAP sensor should compensate for air temp). Motor doesn't SEEM to worry much, don't feel a lot of differnce either.
But I am still playing around to see if the annoying 1500rpm idle problem that exists on GTS 300s when warm, on overrun, only happens with IAT connected.
Problem is: it only happens now and again so haven't nailed it yet.
Ringram, yeh have thought about OTRCAI, it would help when replacing headlight bulbs, LOL.
IACS has a VX GTS-UK and also been talking about OTRCAI.
Dave52, interested to know how you get on with it!
As an add-on: My Mrs now runs a Munro (Red 2004 CV8) (reg: V3 HSV (Stands for: Holden Supplied Vauxhall)) - great car, but needs more power after my GTS!
Cheers
Eric
>> Edited by v2hsv on Monday 13th March 00:46
On my VX GTS 300 the IAT is drilled into the bottom of the intake pipe (I am hesitant to call it the MAF pipe on a MAFless car).
I have had it connected and disconnected (under the theory that MAP sensor should compensate for air temp). Motor doesn't SEEM to worry much, don't feel a lot of differnce either.
But I am still playing around to see if the annoying 1500rpm idle problem that exists on GTS 300s when warm, on overrun, only happens with IAT connected.
Problem is: it only happens now and again so haven't nailed it yet.
Ringram, yeh have thought about OTRCAI, it would help when replacing headlight bulbs, LOL.
IACS has a VX GTS-UK and also been talking about OTRCAI.
Dave52, interested to know how you get on with it!
As an add-on: My Mrs now runs a Munro (Red 2004 CV8) (reg: V3 HSV (Stands for: Holden Supplied Vauxhall)) - great car, but needs more power after my GTS!
Cheers
Eric
>> Edited by v2hsv on Monday 13th March 00:46
v2hsv,
You can get your Mrs Monaro to gts spec with a mafless tune. Its not got the heads and cam, but you dont need them, fueling and spark will get you there and a nice otrcai. (Stock GTS tune with 285KW R8 Spark timing is a good start)
You should use the IAT as it plays an extremely important role in spark timing, if IAT is over 25deg C it will pull timing and rob power. Hence why otrcai is good and why you want cold air. Ever wondered why your car runs better on a cold morning? IAT Spark timing!
the otrcai will help make that power all the time. And get rid of the SSI stuff to make bulb changing easier
What does the idle do on overrun? I might be able to throw a few ideas around.
I like open loop mainly because you can run leaner than stock at low engine loads increasing economy without any loss of power.
>> Edited by ringram on Monday 13th March 07:55
You can get your Mrs Monaro to gts spec with a mafless tune. Its not got the heads and cam, but you dont need them, fueling and spark will get you there and a nice otrcai. (Stock GTS tune with 285KW R8 Spark timing is a good start)
You should use the IAT as it plays an extremely important role in spark timing, if IAT is over 25deg C it will pull timing and rob power. Hence why otrcai is good and why you want cold air. Ever wondered why your car runs better on a cold morning? IAT Spark timing!
the otrcai will help make that power all the time. And get rid of the SSI stuff to make bulb changing easier
What does the idle do on overrun? I might be able to throw a few ideas around.
I like open loop mainly because you can run leaner than stock at low engine loads increasing economy without any loss of power.
>> Edited by ringram on Monday 13th March 07:55
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