hsv gts or 5.7 cv8
Discussion
i know this is going to get emotions high and that its spread throughout loads of posts but....
i'm thinking of buying a either of the above.
so either hsv gts or 5.7 cv8 old model on a 04. - ie older car or newer car / kudos or vauxhall (flame suite put on)... ;-)
the car is to be used for fast road and comuting 60 motorway miles each day.
No1 - (i know not top on everyones priority list) boot space?
much difference - do the reat seats do anything ie fold or ski hatch etc? excuse my ignorance
No2 - ride comfort (bearing in mind the previous cars i've had - 993 on billies, lancia integrale evo, GTM libra) is the car relatively smooth on b road stuff?
No3 - maintanance - costs? do suspension bushes wear out every 4k miles etc?
No4 - mpg for each - roughly the same?
No5 - availability of parts / trim on the HSV - hard to get? costly - is it robust?
factoring in the above i also have the added problem that i'm a serial modifier.... brakes, manifolds etc changes would be planned and then charger - in your opinions should i factor anything in when chosing between them
any thoughts are greatly appreciated
marc
i'm thinking of buying a either of the above.
so either hsv gts or 5.7 cv8 old model on a 04. - ie older car or newer car / kudos or vauxhall (flame suite put on)... ;-)
the car is to be used for fast road and comuting 60 motorway miles each day.
No1 - (i know not top on everyones priority list) boot space?
much difference - do the reat seats do anything ie fold or ski hatch etc? excuse my ignorance
No2 - ride comfort (bearing in mind the previous cars i've had - 993 on billies, lancia integrale evo, GTM libra) is the car relatively smooth on b road stuff?
No3 - maintanance - costs? do suspension bushes wear out every 4k miles etc?
No4 - mpg for each - roughly the same?
No5 - availability of parts / trim on the HSV - hard to get? costly - is it robust?
factoring in the above i also have the added problem that i'm a serial modifier.... brakes, manifolds etc changes would be planned and then charger - in your opinions should i factor anything in when chosing between them
any thoughts are greatly appreciated
marc
marcevo1 said:
i know this is going to get emotions high and that its spread throughout loads of posts but....
i'm thinking of buying a either of the above.
so either hsv gts or 5.7 cv8 old model on a 04. - ie older car or newer car / kudos or vauxhall (flame suite put on)... ;-)
the car is to be used for fast road and comuting 60 motorway miles each day.
No1 - (i know not top on everyones priority list) boot space?
much difference - do the reat seats do anything ie fold or ski hatch etc? excuse my ignorance
No2 - ride comfort (bearing in mind the previous cars i've had - 993 on billies, lancia integrale evo, GTM libra) is the car relatively smooth on b road stuff?
No3 - maintanance - costs? do suspension bushes wear out every 4k miles etc?
No4 - mpg for each - roughly the same?
No5 - availability of parts / trim on the HSV - hard to get? costly - is it robust?
factoring in the above i also have the added problem that i'm a serial modifier.... brakes, manifolds etc changes would be planned and then charger - in your opinions should i factor anything in when chosing between them
any thoughts are greatly appreciated
marc
i'm thinking of buying a either of the above.
so either hsv gts or 5.7 cv8 old model on a 04. - ie older car or newer car / kudos or vauxhall (flame suite put on)... ;-)
the car is to be used for fast road and comuting 60 motorway miles each day.
No1 - (i know not top on everyones priority list) boot space?
much difference - do the reat seats do anything ie fold or ski hatch etc? excuse my ignorance
No2 - ride comfort (bearing in mind the previous cars i've had - 993 on billies, lancia integrale evo, GTM libra) is the car relatively smooth on b road stuff?
No3 - maintanance - costs? do suspension bushes wear out every 4k miles etc?
No4 - mpg for each - roughly the same?
No5 - availability of parts / trim on the HSV - hard to get? costly - is it robust?
factoring in the above i also have the added problem that i'm a serial modifier.... brakes, manifolds etc changes would be planned and then charger - in your opinions should i factor anything in when chosing between them
any thoughts are greatly appreciated
marc
No contest. GTS.
Technically speaking the GTS is a better car factory stock however; I personally think the Monaro is much better looking and if you are serious about modifying it, it is more of a challenge and therefore some would argue more fun. It is also something of a sleeper and it is hilarious to see the looks on the faces of drivers of M3's and the like as you blast away from them in your Vauxhall. The CV8 does have a lot of presence and my dad was commenting about it the other day as he was driving behind our old one and from what I've seen it sits very nicely on the road. I don't think you can wrong with either really, they are both great cars, it just depends on which one you personally prefer. It might also be worth noting that there are some bargain 5.7l VXR's for sale at the moment, one silver one on autotrader is going for £22500 with only 15,000 miles!
To be honest you can't go far wrong with either! As the consumate alrounder a HSV GTS/GTS-R is well nigh impossible to beat think M5 without the image problem. You'll be driving something a bit "special" that only yourself and a few committed petrolheads know anything about. It'll have the best seats you'll ever sit in, yes they do have ski-hatch/through load facility and most have proven very reliable. The downside is that most were manufactured 1998/99/2000 and are getting on a bit, so although parts aren't much of a problem most will be at that age where you may have the odd bill or so.
The CV8/VXR's are starting to become real bargains now, and although they maybe aren't as "special " ( absolutely no offence meant to anyone) but of course they are still covered by the 3 year warranty, so bills will be less. If I was buying a car and keeping it fairly stock, for me it would be an HSV or a VXR, if I was going to seriously mod the car it would be an 04 CV8 without question, as you'll probably end up upgrading the upgraded bits on the HSV/VXR's anyway! Enjoy the hunt, as I say either way it's a win-win.
The CV8/VXR's are starting to become real bargains now, and although they maybe aren't as "special " ( absolutely no offence meant to anyone) but of course they are still covered by the 3 year warranty, so bills will be less. If I was buying a car and keeping it fairly stock, for me it would be an HSV or a VXR, if I was going to seriously mod the car it would be an 04 CV8 without question, as you'll probably end up upgrading the upgraded bits on the HSV/VXR's anyway! Enjoy the hunt, as I say either way it's a win-win.
What a lovely position to be in then! In the Pistoneads classifieds there are a couple of late reg big boot CV8's at circa £16/£17K. So for approx £22/£24K you could end up with a big braked,big wheeled, ripshifted, 500BHP' nearly new V8!!!!! I can't think of anything on the planet better value than that.
Monaro has calais interior which is top of the line. GTS has Exec or in later models berlina interior which is more basic.
Monaro is 4 years newer and parts are in stock with vauxhall.
Mind you based on a members recent experience with a water pump you are better off buying parts in from oz or us. In which case either model is good parts-wise.
Performance will be very similar due to same spec engine and gearboxes.
4 door is more practical. I went with the gts due to the extra stuff like larger brakes and uprated suspension, rear 3.73:1 gears etc.
Monaro is 4 years newer and parts are in stock with vauxhall.
Mind you based on a members recent experience with a water pump you are better off buying parts in from oz or us. In which case either model is good parts-wise.
Performance will be very similar due to same spec engine and gearboxes.
4 door is more practical. I went with the gts due to the extra stuff like larger brakes and uprated suspension, rear 3.73:1 gears etc.
Firstly, welcome to the forum.
I can only echo the responses so far, and here's the answers to your questions....
>>> No1 - (i know not top on everyones priority list) boot space?
Boot Capacities:
4dr HSV/Commodore = 245 litres
CV8/5.7 VXR = 245 litres
6.0 VXR = <don't know, but it's tiny>
>>> much difference - do the reat seats do anything ie fold or ski hatch etc? excuse my ignorance
The centre seat folds to provide a very large ski flap. The main seats don't fold.
>>> No2 - ride comfort (bearing in mind the previous cars i've had - 993 on billies, lancia integrale evo, GTM libra) is the >>> car relatively smooth on b road stuff?
Haven't driven any of the above cars so I can't compare but I drive my Commodore on A, B, & Non Classified Roads and find the ride very comfortable.
>>> No3 - maintanance - costs?
Service intervals are 6-10,000 miles or 6months and only generally requires an oil change.
Check out [this|www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=244240&f=69&h=0&hw=servicing] thread (3rd Post) for the full servicing schedule. I copied it from my Commodore manual. Vauxhall have deemed that 10000 mile service intervals for the Monaro is OK and the jobs done at each service are the same as the Commodore. The cars will tell you when the service is due anyway. If you do the work yourself it's 4quid for the filter + whatever oil you want to use (generally 5w-40 fully synth). No more than 40quid for a DIY service usually.
Hardly anything ever goes wrong with these cars. They're pretty much bullet proof and extremely reliable.
>>> do suspension bushes wear out every 4k miles etc?
This isn't a problem on these cars to the best of my knowledge. They have well built McPherson suspension systems.
>>>> No4 - mpg for each - roughly the same?
Pretty much, yes. The following is based on manufacturers standard values. Tuned vehicles will be different depending on the hardware & tune but most members get around 30mpg from a tuned vehicle on long motorway runs when using cruise control at 70-75mph.
These are the figures for the Coupe (Monaro) in MPG:
/5.7 CV8/5.7 VXR/6.0 VXR/
Fuel Economy: Urban 12.4 12.2 11.6
Fuel Economy: Extra Urban 25.7 26.2 24.9
Fuel Economy: Combined 18.5 18.5 17.6
These are the figures for the 4dr Commodore in liters per 100KM.
* V6 Automatic City / Highway: 12.0 / 7.2 (L/100km)
* V6 Manual: 11.0 / 7.2 (L/100km)
* Supercharged V6 Automatic: 13.5 / 7.8 (L/100km)
* V8 5.0L Automatic: 15.0 / 9.0 (L/100km)
* V8 5.0L Manual: 14.0 / 9.0 (L/100km)
* V8 5.7L Automatic City/Highway: 13.0 / 8.5 (L/100km)
* V8 5.7L Manual: 13.0 / 7.4 (L/100km)
>>> No5 - availability of parts / trim on the HSV - hard to get? costly - is it robust?
Parts for the 5.7 & 6.0 aren't too bad to come by and much easier now Vauxhall have imported the Monaro. Most of the Monaro parts fit the 4door which makes things easy and Wortec make some of the components (mainly exhaust systems) here in the UK.
>>> factoring in the above i also have the added problem that i'm a serial modifier.... brakes, manifolds etc changes would be planned and then charger -
Aren't we all
The 5.7 is a known entity with lots of mods available.
The 6.0 is still relatively new and UK tuners like Wortec, LSV, WRC, etc have made huge leaps forwards in terms of tuning & performance parts availability.
There's always the possibility to import bits from Aus or the USA if you want to.
>>> in your opinions should i factor anything in when chosing between them
Depends whether you want a 2 door or a more practical 4 door vehicle.
If you're a heavy modder and are going to upgrade most of the hardware then unless you absolutely have to have a 6.0 litre engine I'd recommend either the HSV or CV8. It would seem pointless paying for the VXR if you're going to rip out all the bits you've just paid the extra money for.
If you want a cheap starting platform I know somebody with a partially modded 230rwkw 4dr Commodore going for around 10k
I can only echo the responses so far, and here's the answers to your questions....
>>> No1 - (i know not top on everyones priority list) boot space?
Boot Capacities:
4dr HSV/Commodore = 245 litres
CV8/5.7 VXR = 245 litres
6.0 VXR = <don't know, but it's tiny>
>>> much difference - do the reat seats do anything ie fold or ski hatch etc? excuse my ignorance
The centre seat folds to provide a very large ski flap. The main seats don't fold.
>>> No2 - ride comfort (bearing in mind the previous cars i've had - 993 on billies, lancia integrale evo, GTM libra) is the >>> car relatively smooth on b road stuff?
Haven't driven any of the above cars so I can't compare but I drive my Commodore on A, B, & Non Classified Roads and find the ride very comfortable.
>>> No3 - maintanance - costs?
Service intervals are 6-10,000 miles or 6months and only generally requires an oil change.
Check out [this|www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=244240&f=69&h=0&hw=servicing] thread (3rd Post) for the full servicing schedule. I copied it from my Commodore manual. Vauxhall have deemed that 10000 mile service intervals for the Monaro is OK and the jobs done at each service are the same as the Commodore. The cars will tell you when the service is due anyway. If you do the work yourself it's 4quid for the filter + whatever oil you want to use (generally 5w-40 fully synth). No more than 40quid for a DIY service usually.
Hardly anything ever goes wrong with these cars. They're pretty much bullet proof and extremely reliable.
>>> do suspension bushes wear out every 4k miles etc?
This isn't a problem on these cars to the best of my knowledge. They have well built McPherson suspension systems.
>>>> No4 - mpg for each - roughly the same?
Pretty much, yes. The following is based on manufacturers standard values. Tuned vehicles will be different depending on the hardware & tune but most members get around 30mpg from a tuned vehicle on long motorway runs when using cruise control at 70-75mph.
These are the figures for the Coupe (Monaro) in MPG:
/5.7 CV8/5.7 VXR/6.0 VXR/
Fuel Economy: Urban 12.4 12.2 11.6
Fuel Economy: Extra Urban 25.7 26.2 24.9
Fuel Economy: Combined 18.5 18.5 17.6
These are the figures for the 4dr Commodore in liters per 100KM.
* V6 Automatic City / Highway: 12.0 / 7.2 (L/100km)
* V6 Manual: 11.0 / 7.2 (L/100km)
* Supercharged V6 Automatic: 13.5 / 7.8 (L/100km)
* V8 5.0L Automatic: 15.0 / 9.0 (L/100km)
* V8 5.0L Manual: 14.0 / 9.0 (L/100km)
* V8 5.7L Automatic City/Highway: 13.0 / 8.5 (L/100km)
* V8 5.7L Manual: 13.0 / 7.4 (L/100km)
>>> No5 - availability of parts / trim on the HSV - hard to get? costly - is it robust?
Parts for the 5.7 & 6.0 aren't too bad to come by and much easier now Vauxhall have imported the Monaro. Most of the Monaro parts fit the 4door which makes things easy and Wortec make some of the components (mainly exhaust systems) here in the UK.
>>> factoring in the above i also have the added problem that i'm a serial modifier.... brakes, manifolds etc changes would be planned and then charger -
Aren't we all
The 5.7 is a known entity with lots of mods available.
The 6.0 is still relatively new and UK tuners like Wortec, LSV, WRC, etc have made huge leaps forwards in terms of tuning & performance parts availability.
There's always the possibility to import bits from Aus or the USA if you want to.
>>> in your opinions should i factor anything in when chosing between them
Depends whether you want a 2 door or a more practical 4 door vehicle.
If you're a heavy modder and are going to upgrade most of the hardware then unless you absolutely have to have a 6.0 litre engine I'd recommend either the HSV or CV8. It would seem pointless paying for the VXR if you're going to rip out all the bits you've just paid the extra money for.
If you want a cheap starting platform I know somebody with a partially modded 230rwkw 4dr Commodore going for around 10k
No1 - (i know not top on everyones priority list) boot space?
GTS boot is excellent but cannot comment on Monaro as I have not tried the boot but think it is similar to GTS, the latest ones are good for o’nite bags.
much difference - do the reat seats do anything ie fold or ski hatch etc? excuse my ignorance
GTS centre rear fold down to provide an armrest or a table with two cup holders, don’t know about Monaro
No2 - ride comfort (bearing in mind the previous cars i've had - 993 on billies, lancia integrale evo, GTM libra) is the car relatively smooth on b road stuff?
Excellent ride in both cars, even on poor roads
No3 - maintanance - costs? do suspension bushes wear out every 4k miles etc?
No stupid wear rates on either model, parts hardly required unless you abuse it
No4 - mpg for each - roughly the same?
Monaro might have the edge with better aerodynamics, 22-26 achievable, so is 8 mpg
No5 - availability of parts / trim on the HSV - hard to get? costly - is it robust?
Built like agricultural machinery, solid, basic & built to last except for corrosion issues, needs protecting underneath possibly, Oz owners expect 7 years per car compared to our 3 or 4 yrs
factoring in the above i also have the added problem that i'm a serial modifier.... brakes, manifolds etc changes would be planned and then charger - in your opinions should i factor anything in when chosing between them
100% yes, this can well exceed initial purchase price but if you set a budget & stick to it you will be ok, don’t adhere to budget & well, that’s another story.
IMAO, brake upgrade first, then decide on turbo or supercharger, improved gear throw and you should have change from £10k
Will
009 said:
Andrew, your car is the bomb... how much £..??
Hope that is meant as a complement - calling someones car a bomb in Oz sometimes results in blood and pain
As for the car, Quicksilver 2004 Y2 series Clubsport 285kw (~390 bhp) 4 sp Auto, has 23500 km on it and has HSV's Performance Brake upgrade. It was imported Nov last year, so am unable to sell it before 12 months is up - I would expect to see offers over 23k.
Edited by hsv_rulz on Saturday 29th July 19:44
I just noticed this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Holden-HSV-GTS_
It looks like the VX model, which is good as it gets the rear links so suspension is improved. £9K is a good price (Assuming thats its reserve too)
Low miles too.
It looks like the VX model, which is good as it gets the rear links so suspension is improved. £9K is a good price (Assuming thats its reserve too)
Low miles too.
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