Discussion
A few basic questions from a complete Monaro numpty here. Don't even know if the UK cars are the same spec as here in Oz?
Considering a Monaro as an alternative 'sensible family car' (current favourite is RX8) to compliment the Vito work van & RX7 trackday beast.
Do all V8 Monaros have the LS engine? or is the 5.7 still the old 1950 SBC?
What spec do you need to get the 6.0? or is it an option across the range?
I'm sure I will have more Q's, hope to test drive next week.
Tim
Considering a Monaro as an alternative 'sensible family car' (current favourite is RX8) to compliment the Vito work van & RX7 trackday beast.
Do all V8 Monaros have the LS engine? or is the 5.7 still the old 1950 SBC?
What spec do you need to get the 6.0? or is it an option across the range?
I'm sure I will have more Q's, hope to test drive next week.
Tim
All Monaros have either LS1 or LS2 engines AFAIK. All up to model year 2005 had the LS1 and then the HSV GTO and Pontiac GTO and Vauxhall VXR got the 6.0 LS2. So to get the 6.0 you'd need to be looking at an HSV GTO (I could be wrong but the last-model CV8 we got was still an LS1 albeit with 350bhp rather than 333)
I believe UK spec = Oz spec but the Pontiacs get a strange mix (basic rubbish brakes + 400bhp LS2 + 17in wheels).
I believe UK spec = Oz spec but the Pontiacs get a strange mix (basic rubbish brakes + 400bhp LS2 + 17in wheels).
I had an RX8 before Roo,
RX8 was great, one of my favorite cars..... but still would not swap the Monaro back
Doesn't handle as well as an RX8.....but performance difference..massive
Fuel consumption the same
Sevicing similar
No reliability diffrences
Monaro is Fun,Fun,Fun all the way - RX8 would have been if only it had more power (no i'm not power daft, but RX8 isn't any faster than a Golf)
RX8 was great, one of my favorite cars..... but still would not swap the Monaro back
Doesn't handle as well as an RX8.....but performance difference..massive
Fuel consumption the same
Sevicing similar
No reliability diffrences
Monaro is Fun,Fun,Fun all the way - RX8 would have been if only it had more power (no i'm not power daft, but RX8 isn't any faster than a Golf)
"Do all V8 Monaros have the LS engine? or is the 5.7 still the old 1950 SBC?
What spec do you need to get the 6.0? or is it an option across the range?"
Correct me if I am wrong please guys but I understood all Monaro engines to be derivatives of the Small Block Chevy (the worlds oldest, still in production engine)
The other 6.0 in the Commodore range in Aus is a truck engine and didn't go in the Monaro.
What spec do you need to get the 6.0? or is it an option across the range?"
Correct me if I am wrong please guys but I understood all Monaro engines to be derivatives of the Small Block Chevy (the worlds oldest, still in production engine)
The other 6.0 in the Commodore range in Aus is a truck engine and didn't go in the Monaro.
phrich said:
The other 6.0 in the Commodore range in Aus is a truck engine and didn't go in the Monaro.
OK I've been looking at a few cars in today's paper, as well as reading what I can find on the web.
VZ HSV Clubsport 6.0 is LS2 right?
Some late VZ (non HSV) SS Commodores have a 6.0 with engine code "Gen4 L76". Is this LS2? or is it the iron block truck version of the LS1? Or am I getting more confused?
The 5.7 "GenIII" engine, is it SBC or LS1?
madazrx7 said:
phrich said:
The other 6.0 in the Commodore range in Aus is a truck engine and didn't go in the Monaro.
OK I've been looking at a few cars in today's paper, as well as reading what I can find on the web.
VZ HSV Clubsport 6.0 is LS2 right?
Some late VZ (non HSV) SS Commodores have a 6.0 with engine code "Gen4 L76". Is this LS2? or is it the iron block truck version of the LS1? Or am I getting more confused?
The 5.7 "GenIII" engine, is it SBC or LS1?
Gen 4 is the series of small block Chev engines (actually I think 6.0litre is actually big block dimensions). L76 is a derivative of the Gen 4, different to LS2, but same series of block / engine design. Its not iron block.
Before the Gen 4 was Gen 3. The LS1 is a 5.7 Gen 3. This is a small block Chev.
jagsy said:
Gen 4 is the series of small block Chev engines (actually I think 6.0litre is actually big block dimensions). L76 is a derivative of the Gen 4, different to LS2, but same series of block / engine design. Its not iron block.
Before the Gen 4 was Gen 3. The LS1 is a 5.7 Gen 3. This is a small block Chev.
Hmm, getting more confused now. In a previous thread www.petrolheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=275176&r=3545474&hm=60034#3545474
I was making rude remarks about the 'old fashioned' SBC engine, and deriding the idea of replacing a rotary in a RX7 with one.
Several posters responded that the LS series engines are in fact quite different to the old SBC.
I have also read threads re the difficulty in using a LS instead of SBC in an Ultima.
I'm also certain that 6.0 is well within 'small block' capacity?
madazrx7 said:
Hmm, getting more confused now. In a previous thread www.petrolheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=275176&r=3545474&hm=60034#3545474
I was making rude remarks about the 'old fashioned' SBC engine, and deriding the idea of replacing a rotary in a RX7 with one.
Several posters responded that the LS series engines are in fact quite different to the old SBC.
I have also read threads re the difficulty in using a LS instead of SBC in an Ultima.
I'm also certain that 6.0 is well within 'small block' capacity?
Arh well, if you read too much.......
You can't get away from the fact that the Gen 3 and Gen 4 are push rods - thats upto date tech hehehe.
The Gen 3 and Gen 4 are different to 'OLD' SBC's but they are still SB's.
Arh well, keep on reading you may learn more.
The LS series have nothing in common with the old "SBC" apart from the general layout. It was a clean-sheet design created in the late 90s so it is a modern engine. They basically set out to create the ultimate pushrod V8 and I think they pretty much managed it. Very stong, very light, very compact, clean (legal in Cali) 6 bolt mains(!) std, very rigid block, low maintenance and I'm guess pretty cheap to produce. The LS7 is simply amazing, so much power in such a small and light package.
Tim,
Yes it will be an ls1 or 2. You can check with the seller as well as looking at the engine if it's local. It will be all aluminium construction and have a coil per plug arrangement. The inlet manifold is pretty distinctive being made from nylon and looking like a bunch of bananas. You can't mistake the lsx range of engines for any other smallblock from GM. The waterpump casting is also distinctive. There are some old pics on my web pages, not monaro but enough for you to see what an engine looks like.
As for capacity, they all share similar block castings/dimensions but can achieve big block capacity via different bore/stroke combinations. Some firms don't retrofit them because they prefer the simplicity of a carbed sbc which is also easier to get through sva tests for kit cars and the like.
The lsx is probably the ultimate sbc but is a completely brand new design and as far as I know the only component it shares with the iron sbc gen 1 are it's big end shells. The rest is brand new and designed in the 90'ies.
Boosted.
Yes it will be an ls1 or 2. You can check with the seller as well as looking at the engine if it's local. It will be all aluminium construction and have a coil per plug arrangement. The inlet manifold is pretty distinctive being made from nylon and looking like a bunch of bananas. You can't mistake the lsx range of engines for any other smallblock from GM. The waterpump casting is also distinctive. There are some old pics on my web pages, not monaro but enough for you to see what an engine looks like.
As for capacity, they all share similar block castings/dimensions but can achieve big block capacity via different bore/stroke combinations. Some firms don't retrofit them because they prefer the simplicity of a carbed sbc which is also easier to get through sva tests for kit cars and the like.
The lsx is probably the ultimate sbc but is a completely brand new design and as far as I know the only component it shares with the iron sbc gen 1 are it's big end shells. The rest is brand new and designed in the 90'ies.
Boosted.
Boosted LS1 said:
The lsx is probably the ultimate sbc but is a completely brand new design and as far as I know the only component it shares with the iron sbc gen 1 are it's big end shells. The rest is brand new and designed in the 90'ies.
Boosted.
Think the big ends bit is correct.
IMO the LSx is NOT a SBC.
Only one aspect of these engines are the same. Calling it the small block, could be similar to calling it a Pinto.
They are both engines arent they ?? yes, but totally different.
Single chain always, but you can run a dual row chain for additional strength.
Gen3 and Gen4 use same block dimensions externally. Some sensors like cam and knock are relocated between the families. As mentioned its a total clean sheet design. 4.4" bore spacing. New LSx Bowtie engine from GMPP can take 4.2" bore for over 480 cubes.
Gen3 and Gen4 ls2 share the same head design. In fact LS6 and LS2 heads are the same thing. Later Gen4 engines like the LS7, L92, L76, L98 (Alloy engines) use larger square intake ports with a huge intake valve and smaller exhaust in comparison to the gen3 and early gen4 stuff.
The Aussie L98 engine is basically the LS2 with L92 truck heads. The main changes have been in the heads, the block is much the same as BoostedLS1 mentioned.
Gen3 and Gen4 use same block dimensions externally. Some sensors like cam and knock are relocated between the families. As mentioned its a total clean sheet design. 4.4" bore spacing. New LSx Bowtie engine from GMPP can take 4.2" bore for over 480 cubes.
Gen3 and Gen4 ls2 share the same head design. In fact LS6 and LS2 heads are the same thing. Later Gen4 engines like the LS7, L92, L76, L98 (Alloy engines) use larger square intake ports with a huge intake valve and smaller exhaust in comparison to the gen3 and early gen4 stuff.
The Aussie L98 engine is basically the LS2 with L92 truck heads. The main changes have been in the heads, the block is much the same as BoostedLS1 mentioned.
OK I'm going to take my thread a bit off track rather than start a new one...
I've been researching prices and specs. Seem that for my budget (around $45k) I have a choice, both 2004 VZ models.
Either a Monaro CV8, LS1, 350BHP, standard brakes etc, or
HSV Clubsport R8, LS2, 400BHP, 4 spot brakes...
Fairly obvious which will be the better drive, but I'm wondering about potential depreciation, the R8 HSV has a new VE version, whereas the Monaro is no longer. Should I assume that the Monaro will probably retain more value? Planning on keeping for up to 2 years, will only get occasional weekend use so will remain low milage.
Any thoughts? (other than "get the one you prefer"; unfortunately I DO have to consider the cost of this 'fling')
I've been researching prices and specs. Seem that for my budget (around $45k) I have a choice, both 2004 VZ models.
Either a Monaro CV8, LS1, 350BHP, standard brakes etc, or
HSV Clubsport R8, LS2, 400BHP, 4 spot brakes...
Fairly obvious which will be the better drive, but I'm wondering about potential depreciation, the R8 HSV has a new VE version, whereas the Monaro is no longer. Should I assume that the Monaro will probably retain more value? Planning on keeping for up to 2 years, will only get occasional weekend use so will remain low milage.
Any thoughts? (other than "get the one you prefer"; unfortunately I DO have to consider the cost of this 'fling')
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