SHOULD I DISH THE DIRT ?
Discussion
Pistonheads, has a "no shaming" policy put in to protect everyone, including Ted himself. (The company you're referring to probabaly pays to advertise on this site). I'm sure your grievances are justified, but I really would suggest trying to sort it privately (and yes I'm sure also that you're at your wits end).Maybe let everyone know the hopefully happy outcome?
I think potential damage has already been done tbh. Obviously you have a grievence but the two threads would be enough to put me off using them (if I had not done so already, great chaps and service in my experience) so I think you should at least aire your issue but in a toned down manner.
Failing that email me off board as I am nosey and would love to know!!!
Failing that email me off board as I am nosey and would love to know!!!
May be I am giving the wrong impression. I to think they are very decent and fair company to deal with. I am however frustrated at failure to get replies to requests.Rather than put customers off I would recommend them technically.As a person who runs their own company, I would rather be told about my short comings rather than let them drift on.
In matters such as this it is always a question whether to react, in the knowledge one's words may appear more harsh than is intended, or may add fuel to the fire, or may be taken the wrong way by readers. Putting one's own side may indeed be counter-productive, and merely prolong a debate in writing that, if left alone, may tomorrow be wrapping someone's fish supper, figuratively speaking. Different people will have radically different views. It will be noted that recent (long) threads have elicited reactions ranging from genuinely interested and possibly enlightened, through to thoroughly appalled and disgusted at both their nature and content.
But, a point has been raised and the issue should be addressed, or at least a debate incepted, as the ground rules of the internet are still in their infancy, or more likely (and sadly), are a contradiction in terms. Please would Mick not take any of this the wrong way; his post has merely prompted me to a statement of my position, probably overdue, which would in isolation be an over-reaction to an easily resolved situation.
The growth of the internet and forums such as this has contributed enormously to the information revolution. Likewise, misinformation, the venting of frustration, vendettas, rants or whatever can now be made public, indeed 'narrowcasted' to those most likely to be interested, at the click of a few keys, from the safety of one's own home or place of work. In a field of business such as this with a fairly restricted potential customer base of computer literate enthusiasts, the ability to make public a complaint, either justified or otherwise, is a veiled and, although I hesitate to say it, a valid threat. Thus, such a recourse is available to all to back up a position adopted in any dispute, or in reaction to an unresolved or unsatisfactorily resolved argument, or merely as an outlet for irritation.
Thus, for businesses such as ours, the internet is a two-edged sword. On the one hand, we have the opportunity to promote ourselves very efficiently, and I would admit that through reasons beyond our control (primarily my absence for an extended and critical period) we have not thus far adequately done so. On the other hand, we must sometimes face negativity and criticism.
Philosophically, I am opposed to censorship in its widest sense, and the airing of views and the exchange of ideas is generally a force for good. On the other hand, however precious, loved, admired or monetarily valuable a forum posters' vehicle may be (and few would be as smitten as me), and irrespective of how exercised they may become about them, as someone whose business is their source of income, their most valuable possession and the centre of their life, I can reflect that one's business is infinitely closer to one's heart. From that perspective I can appreciate the policy adopted by the forum of discouraging harmful or negative posts, particularly against businesses. I can also perhaps more readily understand the sometimes fierce, perhaps occasionally immoderate, responses elicited from business owners on this and other forums to criticism, implied or explicit, just or fatuous.
As for this specific case of public embarrassment, I thank Mick for his kind words about our technical ability, and apologise for any administrative failure he has experienced. Thanks also for a positive final post. We will henceforth incept the procedure of verifying addresses of customers at each visit, but would ask if our invoices bear an old address the customer advises us of this. With that said, I'd be happy to put this matter behind us.
But for the future, I will state that after a long illness I am now back at the helm, and the buck stops with me. If anyone has a complaint, I would prefer they were directed to me personally rather than broadcast on this or any other forum. I run Linden because I am a car enthusiast, I really enjoy the cameraderie and shared passion of our customers, and I am always willing to work with people I like to push the envelope, and create for them something special. We've been in this business for nearly twenty years, and have seen a lot of changes, but the passion and interest of our customers has been a constant.
One change that has caught us out is we've not been as quick to embrace the networking potential of the internet as we should have been, and I raise my hat to those who have been quicker off the mark in this respect. It is probably unfortunate that very few of our customers post on this forum, or know it exists (or care even less in some cases), but the corollary to the above is that even for those that do post here or elsewhere, I would rather eschew public debate in favour of a private resolution, preferably face to face, but in any event avoiding showboating to the crowd.
An aggrieved party may of course take any action they desire, and at the risk of stating what is obvious to someone not already impassioned, it is only fair to point out that anyone wishing to air criticism in public does so now in the knowledge it will doubtless strain my usual good humour, and may colour my view of their case.
To round off a long post on a positive note (for those who have made it this far, hopefully not Ted – only joking), and in the interests of commerce I can’t resist sneaking in an ad: we will be making available our LS2 intercooled supercharger conversion from next week, each car being individually tuned and dynoed (before and after) for optimum performance and verified enhancement. Our (non posting) customers who’ve had the pre-production LS2 conversions love them....
Tim@Linden
But, a point has been raised and the issue should be addressed, or at least a debate incepted, as the ground rules of the internet are still in their infancy, or more likely (and sadly), are a contradiction in terms. Please would Mick not take any of this the wrong way; his post has merely prompted me to a statement of my position, probably overdue, which would in isolation be an over-reaction to an easily resolved situation.
The growth of the internet and forums such as this has contributed enormously to the information revolution. Likewise, misinformation, the venting of frustration, vendettas, rants or whatever can now be made public, indeed 'narrowcasted' to those most likely to be interested, at the click of a few keys, from the safety of one's own home or place of work. In a field of business such as this with a fairly restricted potential customer base of computer literate enthusiasts, the ability to make public a complaint, either justified or otherwise, is a veiled and, although I hesitate to say it, a valid threat. Thus, such a recourse is available to all to back up a position adopted in any dispute, or in reaction to an unresolved or unsatisfactorily resolved argument, or merely as an outlet for irritation.
Thus, for businesses such as ours, the internet is a two-edged sword. On the one hand, we have the opportunity to promote ourselves very efficiently, and I would admit that through reasons beyond our control (primarily my absence for an extended and critical period) we have not thus far adequately done so. On the other hand, we must sometimes face negativity and criticism.
Philosophically, I am opposed to censorship in its widest sense, and the airing of views and the exchange of ideas is generally a force for good. On the other hand, however precious, loved, admired or monetarily valuable a forum posters' vehicle may be (and few would be as smitten as me), and irrespective of how exercised they may become about them, as someone whose business is their source of income, their most valuable possession and the centre of their life, I can reflect that one's business is infinitely closer to one's heart. From that perspective I can appreciate the policy adopted by the forum of discouraging harmful or negative posts, particularly against businesses. I can also perhaps more readily understand the sometimes fierce, perhaps occasionally immoderate, responses elicited from business owners on this and other forums to criticism, implied or explicit, just or fatuous.
As for this specific case of public embarrassment, I thank Mick for his kind words about our technical ability, and apologise for any administrative failure he has experienced. Thanks also for a positive final post. We will henceforth incept the procedure of verifying addresses of customers at each visit, but would ask if our invoices bear an old address the customer advises us of this. With that said, I'd be happy to put this matter behind us.
But for the future, I will state that after a long illness I am now back at the helm, and the buck stops with me. If anyone has a complaint, I would prefer they were directed to me personally rather than broadcast on this or any other forum. I run Linden because I am a car enthusiast, I really enjoy the cameraderie and shared passion of our customers, and I am always willing to work with people I like to push the envelope, and create for them something special. We've been in this business for nearly twenty years, and have seen a lot of changes, but the passion and interest of our customers has been a constant.
One change that has caught us out is we've not been as quick to embrace the networking potential of the internet as we should have been, and I raise my hat to those who have been quicker off the mark in this respect. It is probably unfortunate that very few of our customers post on this forum, or know it exists (or care even less in some cases), but the corollary to the above is that even for those that do post here or elsewhere, I would rather eschew public debate in favour of a private resolution, preferably face to face, but in any event avoiding showboating to the crowd.
An aggrieved party may of course take any action they desire, and at the risk of stating what is obvious to someone not already impassioned, it is only fair to point out that anyone wishing to air criticism in public does so now in the knowledge it will doubtless strain my usual good humour, and may colour my view of their case.
To round off a long post on a positive note (for those who have made it this far, hopefully not Ted – only joking), and in the interests of commerce I can’t resist sneaking in an ad: we will be making available our LS2 intercooled supercharger conversion from next week, each car being individually tuned and dynoed (before and after) for optimum performance and verified enhancement. Our (non posting) customers who’ve had the pre-production LS2 conversions love them....
Tim@Linden
Edited by TimAla on Thursday 4th January 19:26
Apart from personal clashes and using the forum as a form of threat (both of which I don't agree with)..... I'm all for naming and shaming suppliers of a service who consistantly don't perform....
That's the joy of the internet. That's why we're all logged onto a site that chats about our type of cars. We all use hsv.org.uk to find out about all the good things (mods, tips etc) ... why not the bad? I'd certainly be mighty upset if a supplier dicked me around/ripped me off and someone could have warned me....
Those suppliers that are good, will have good reviews, those that are bad... they either step up to the mark, or they ship out. Why don't you think we have any Monaro 'Specialist' Vx dealers on here (apart from the obvious)?? Because they can't step up to the mark and they'd get slated in 2 minutes.
I would have no problems in trusting my car with ANY of the suppliers that post on here. This is because they have the reputation & quality service that stands up to scrutiny. Yes, we all have hiccups, but all being members of this forum, hopefully we can get them all ironed out without tears & thrown teddy's.
BUT - if you do post a negative comment about a supplier, be prepared to back it up, all the way, not just post random threatening comments. It's called moral courage.
That's the joy of the internet. That's why we're all logged onto a site that chats about our type of cars. We all use hsv.org.uk to find out about all the good things (mods, tips etc) ... why not the bad? I'd certainly be mighty upset if a supplier dicked me around/ripped me off and someone could have warned me....
Those suppliers that are good, will have good reviews, those that are bad... they either step up to the mark, or they ship out. Why don't you think we have any Monaro 'Specialist' Vx dealers on here (apart from the obvious)?? Because they can't step up to the mark and they'd get slated in 2 minutes.
I would have no problems in trusting my car with ANY of the suppliers that post on here. This is because they have the reputation & quality service that stands up to scrutiny. Yes, we all have hiccups, but all being members of this forum, hopefully we can get them all ironed out without tears & thrown teddy's.
BUT - if you do post a negative comment about a supplier, be prepared to back it up, all the way, not just post random threatening comments. It's called moral courage.
The "no shaming" policy is in place because most of the Pistonhead site revenue comes from advertising.No-one in their right mind would advertise on here if they had the potential to get slaughtered. However I'm all for having a "great service" category and then everyone can draw their own conclusions.The main issue in this debate is now sorted which is the most important thing for all concerned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_e
"Milton Friedman believes that many market failures can be solved not through government regulation of current information but through information disclosure. Information disclosure would be a requirement of government law but would not actually seriously regulate how businesses operate. Instead the disclosure of information would allow the market to react to their behavior by allowing consumers to vote with their dollars given better information about the companies they do business with."
"Milton Friedman believes that many market failures can be solved not through government regulation of current information but through information disclosure. Information disclosure would be a requirement of government law but would not actually seriously regulate how businesses operate. Instead the disclosure of information would allow the market to react to their behavior by allowing consumers to vote with their dollars given better information about the companies they do business with."
Edited by ringram on Thursday 4th January 22:50
The problem with allowing people to name and shame....
Quite often, the customer can tend to exaggerate a little, and the true facts can often get overlooked, or perhaps they simply dont understand.
As Tim says, the internet really is a double edged sword, and quite often its a lot sharper when it comes to attack a business.
Ive been using various forums for a few years now, and if you can filter out the crap, its an amazing tool for an enthusiast seeking information about cars and tuning.
But along the way, I have seen many vendors feel the wrath of internet users. Many of whom arent even customers.
Some of this is justified, a lot of it isnt.
All too often when the truth does come out, the initial complaint really wasnt anything to talk about, yet it can end up very hurtful to the other party.
Rather than name and shame....praising good service is much better. Unless there really is someone who has done bad, and evidence can back the claims up.
But any disputes should always try to be settled, before goin mad on the internet. If nothing else, its common courtesy.
Quite often, the customer can tend to exaggerate a little, and the true facts can often get overlooked, or perhaps they simply dont understand.
As Tim says, the internet really is a double edged sword, and quite often its a lot sharper when it comes to attack a business.
Ive been using various forums for a few years now, and if you can filter out the crap, its an amazing tool for an enthusiast seeking information about cars and tuning.
But along the way, I have seen many vendors feel the wrath of internet users. Many of whom arent even customers.
Some of this is justified, a lot of it isnt.
All too often when the truth does come out, the initial complaint really wasnt anything to talk about, yet it can end up very hurtful to the other party.
Rather than name and shame....praising good service is much better. Unless there really is someone who has done bad, and evidence can back the claims up.
But any disputes should always try to be settled, before goin mad on the internet. If nothing else, its common courtesy.
I dont post on the forum very often. Maybe its just as well? Its strange how asking a question as I did on my first post to LSV has created such a response.When I arrive at the next meeting[Ace Cafe maybe]perhaps I should wear a Tin Hat!!or should I come in disguise? If so what disguise do you recommend?
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