Whats the N/A upgrade path without doing engine internals?
Discussion
Just curious what the Normally Aspirated upgrade path is for the LS2 engine on these cars without starting to take the engine to bits, ive had turbo cars for the past 4-5years so a bit out of touch!
The problem is the more I look at sites the more stuff im finding which is never a good thing.
I take it the obvious are induction kit of some sort, manifolds, and exhaust system.
Is a de-cat possible on these cars or will they only run with cats?
Is the throttle body something people upgrade along with the inlet manifold? Also does anyone replace the MAF?
Finally I take it would be an ecu re-map once all the bits are done.
Am I thinking along the right lines and if ive missed anything please fill in the gaps!
The problem is the more I look at sites the more stuff im finding which is never a good thing.
I take it the obvious are induction kit of some sort, manifolds, and exhaust system.
Is a de-cat possible on these cars or will they only run with cats?
Is the throttle body something people upgrade along with the inlet manifold? Also does anyone replace the MAF?
Finally I take it would be an ecu re-map once all the bits are done.
Am I thinking along the right lines and if ive missed anything please fill in the gaps!
1. I take it the obvious are induction kit of some sort, manifolds, and exhaust system.
Yes, both Wortec suppliers and LSV etc have exhaust, headers etc that will transform car
2.Is a de-cat possible on these cars or will they only run with cats?
Can run de-cat but could fail mot or roadside emissions test, especially on otherwise modded cars
3.Is the throttle body something people upgrade along with the inlet manifold? Also does anyone replace the MAF?
VXR comes with 90mm throttle body as standard and should be more than sufficient. Some decent aftermarket inlet manifolds available for the LS1 5.7l engine, havent seen any mention of same for LS2. Even the pipework connecting it all together is as good as its going to get realistically, none of the problems seen on the LS1 cars. MAF upgrade, lot of us run without the maf but this does require a remap - would open up possibility of fitting an OTRCAI to improve the cold air intake.
4. Finally I take it would be an ecu re-map once all the bits are done.
Yes and there are options available, get Wortec supplier or LSV to remap the engine for slight performance improvement on standard LS2, better fuel economy and better acceleration. Or buy a programmer kit - see ringram on here for the Efilive, or any multitude of similiar packages from US/Oz and then tune the car yourself at a rolling road depending on how confident you are in your abilities to set things up correctly. Loads of info and tech help available on the web but remember you'd be learning while paying the hire costs of the rolling road.
5. Am I thinking along the right lines and if ive missed anything please fill in the gaps!
For serious upgrades without going supercharger/turbo then you start to get into getting flowed heads, new cam etc etc all major work. I've just invested in 3 books on this subject to research where I want to go next with my LS1.
Personally I'd concentrate on the induction and exhaust, get a decent exhaust and headers fitted and then get some form of higher flow air intake/filter. That with a remap should be good for around a 40bhp increase in performance over standard, possibly a bit more.
Yes, both Wortec suppliers and LSV etc have exhaust, headers etc that will transform car
2.Is a de-cat possible on these cars or will they only run with cats?
Can run de-cat but could fail mot or roadside emissions test, especially on otherwise modded cars
3.Is the throttle body something people upgrade along with the inlet manifold? Also does anyone replace the MAF?
VXR comes with 90mm throttle body as standard and should be more than sufficient. Some decent aftermarket inlet manifolds available for the LS1 5.7l engine, havent seen any mention of same for LS2. Even the pipework connecting it all together is as good as its going to get realistically, none of the problems seen on the LS1 cars. MAF upgrade, lot of us run without the maf but this does require a remap - would open up possibility of fitting an OTRCAI to improve the cold air intake.
4. Finally I take it would be an ecu re-map once all the bits are done.
Yes and there are options available, get Wortec supplier or LSV to remap the engine for slight performance improvement on standard LS2, better fuel economy and better acceleration. Or buy a programmer kit - see ringram on here for the Efilive, or any multitude of similiar packages from US/Oz and then tune the car yourself at a rolling road depending on how confident you are in your abilities to set things up correctly. Loads of info and tech help available on the web but remember you'd be learning while paying the hire costs of the rolling road.
5. Am I thinking along the right lines and if ive missed anything please fill in the gaps!
For serious upgrades without going supercharger/turbo then you start to get into getting flowed heads, new cam etc etc all major work. I've just invested in 3 books on this subject to research where I want to go next with my LS1.
Personally I'd concentrate on the induction and exhaust, get a decent exhaust and headers fitted and then get some form of higher flow air intake/filter. That with a remap should be good for around a 40bhp increase in performance over standard, possibly a bit more.
Thanks for the responses, much appreciated. Take you a while to read the books!
When you say a sports cat is that something along the lines of a 100cel unit? Would a modified car still pass the MOT with 100cel units in or would 300cel be the minimum?
If a turbo kit was to be fitted to a LS2 unit running realistic power, i.e not 700bhp or something silly high would any internal work be required? From what ive read I know the bottom end can take a realistic amount but would the cam or valves need changing and is the compression on the standard engine o.k for forced induction?
When you say a sports cat is that something along the lines of a 100cel unit? Would a modified car still pass the MOT with 100cel units in or would 300cel be the minimum?
If a turbo kit was to be fitted to a LS2 unit running realistic power, i.e not 700bhp or something silly high would any internal work be required? From what ive read I know the bottom end can take a realistic amount but would the cam or valves need changing and is the compression on the standard engine o.k for forced induction?
The std engine is good for a "mild" power upgrade when blown, provided that it is mapped accordingly.
Mild in this instance, can be a marked amount though...
Richard on the other hand, has chosen the n/a route for his car. There are a wealth of head cand cam pacakges you could go for, a larger TB ( stock intake either LS6 or LS2 are proven to be very good anyway ) with perhaps a larger TB as some say.
Exhausts and air filter etc are obvious mods to go woth this.
IMO, bang for your buck, forced induction is the best way forward. THEN if you want to go for heads and cam after that, things can only improve.
Stock pistons arent ideal for a blown engine, BUT, if you wanted to reduce the CR for added safety on a blown engine, you could do that via heads, to save going internal.
Mild in this instance, can be a marked amount though...
Richard on the other hand, has chosen the n/a route for his car. There are a wealth of head cand cam pacakges you could go for, a larger TB ( stock intake either LS6 or LS2 are proven to be very good anyway ) with perhaps a larger TB as some say.
Exhausts and air filter etc are obvious mods to go woth this.
IMO, bang for your buck, forced induction is the best way forward. THEN if you want to go for heads and cam after that, things can only improve.
Stock pistons arent ideal for a blown engine, BUT, if you wanted to reduce the CR for added safety on a blown engine, you could do that via heads, to save going internal.
Yep forced induction for all out power for sure.
From the stock engine its possible to get between 400 and 500 rear wheel horse power from an ALL OUT NA install with no changes to the block. But that will require serious exhaust, heads, intake, midrange cam etc.
I posted up some info not long ago on NA stuff, with some links etc. Most mods like heads, exhaust etc will help NA or FI power. Once you start looking at cams and intakes though you start needing to decide which way you are going.
You are going to want to get a decent intake setup once you put a cam in there, I have a fast90 with 90mm throttle and it made a significant difference to high RPM airflow.
So sort your exhaust out for a start it will be used with all mod paths except to a certain extent turbos.
Hours of leisure time spent reading pages and pages of info on ls1tech.com will serve you well. Especially posts by TonyM (AFR, Air Flow Research Heads employee), PatrickG, Predator, StrokerAce (You will soon pick out the guys who know whats what).
Ive almost done the whole lot, heads, cam, otrcai, intake, exhaust, clutch, injectors, efilive custom os tune etc. Just a little more on the exhaust in the next month or so and Im done with my mods (hopefully).
From the stock engine its possible to get between 400 and 500 rear wheel horse power from an ALL OUT NA install with no changes to the block. But that will require serious exhaust, heads, intake, midrange cam etc.
I posted up some info not long ago on NA stuff, with some links etc. Most mods like heads, exhaust etc will help NA or FI power. Once you start looking at cams and intakes though you start needing to decide which way you are going.
You are going to want to get a decent intake setup once you put a cam in there, I have a fast90 with 90mm throttle and it made a significant difference to high RPM airflow.
So sort your exhaust out for a start it will be used with all mod paths except to a certain extent turbos.
Hours of leisure time spent reading pages and pages of info on ls1tech.com will serve you well. Especially posts by TonyM (AFR, Air Flow Research Heads employee), PatrickG, Predator, StrokerAce (You will soon pick out the guys who know whats what).
Ive almost done the whole lot, heads, cam, otrcai, intake, exhaust, clutch, injectors, efilive custom os tune etc. Just a little more on the exhaust in the next month or so and Im done with my mods (hopefully).
Another recent link www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=660917
Over 500rwhp NA stock engine capacity.
Cam is likely too hairy for daily driving though.
Over 500rwhp NA stock engine capacity.
Cam is likely too hairy for daily driving though.
I always wanted to avoid the internals but know that once I have the SC I will want to take the boost higher and cannot on normal parts.
Thing is I can find nowhere that can show me what I should do.
New pistons and 'balancing' the engine is what I have heard plus a better cam - but which one as GM performance parts do loads.
Are there recommendations anywhere for the 'best' road ls1 conversion?
Thing is I can find nowhere that can show me what I should do.
New pistons and 'balancing' the engine is what I have heard plus a better cam - but which one as GM performance parts do loads.
Are there recommendations anywhere for the 'best' road ls1 conversion?
I think its best to ask people who have done what you want to do and also ask a few of the companies that offer the internal upgrades.
Took one look before at the amount of pistons and rods that are on offer is ridiculous, even the cams have a number of options so finding the best one isnt going to be easy.
Took one look before at the amount of pistons and rods that are on offer is ridiculous, even the cams have a number of options so finding the best one isnt going to be easy.
Forum | HSV & Monaro | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff