Discussion
Just wondering if any of you guy's out there have any good legal knowledge, or experience you could depart to me.
I have recieved a NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) through the post, for doing 64 in a 40 Zone, its was a dual carrage way so not as reckless as it first appears by a mobile traffic camera.
Trouble is I'm not sure if I was driving or the misses was, so I returned the NIP unsigned and asked for the photographic evidence. It came back today with a photo of the back of the car, with a sun reflection blocking out the rear window, so impossible to identify the driver.
So I now have until the 1st of March to confirm who the driver was or face prosecution.
Any thoughts much appreciated,
Cheers Mark
I have recieved a NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) through the post, for doing 64 in a 40 Zone, its was a dual carrage way so not as reckless as it first appears by a mobile traffic camera.
Trouble is I'm not sure if I was driving or the misses was, so I returned the NIP unsigned and asked for the photographic evidence. It came back today with a photo of the back of the car, with a sun reflection blocking out the rear window, so impossible to identify the driver.
So I now have until the 1st of March to confirm who the driver was or face prosecution.
Any thoughts much appreciated,
Cheers Mark
Boyce said:
Just wondering if any of you guy's out there have any good legal knowledge, or experience you could depart to me.
I have recieved a NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) through the post, for doing 64 in a 40 Zone, its was a dual carrage way so not as reckless as it first appears by a mobile traffic camera.
Trouble is I'm not sure if I was driving or the misses was, so I returned the NIP unsigned and asked for the photographic evidence. It came back today with a photo of the back of the car, with a sun reflection blocking out the rear window, so impossible to identify the driver.
So I now have until the 1st of March to confirm who the driver was or face prosecution.
Any thoughts much appreciated,
Cheers Mark
I have recieved a NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) through the post, for doing 64 in a 40 Zone, its was a dual carrage way so not as reckless as it first appears by a mobile traffic camera.
Trouble is I'm not sure if I was driving or the misses was, so I returned the NIP unsigned and asked for the photographic evidence. It came back today with a photo of the back of the car, with a sun reflection blocking out the rear window, so impossible to identify the driver.
So I now have until the 1st of March to confirm who the driver was or face prosecution.
Any thoughts much appreciated,
Cheers Mark
Sad thing is. If you dont name the driver, regardless of the reasons you can, or cannot. The registered keeper will get convicted.
Apparently its the registered keeper's responsibility to know who is driving the car 24 hours a day....and I guess keep logs of it.
The only way you will get off, is if you are rich, a police officer, or a politician.
Cheers, sadly I'm none of the above. I've looked at several web site's some say the case will be dropped and some suggest I could make the situation much worse by going to court.
Guess I'll have to take the hit, just worried about my insurance going up, I'm really annoyed I had a clean license for ten years then got 3 points in Nov last for sp30 and now this which will probably be 4 points.
Course if it was a stolen car with no insurance, tax or MOT and I had no license I get off with a slapped wrist!!
Guess I'll have to take the hit, just worried about my insurance going up, I'm really annoyed I had a clean license for ten years then got 3 points in Nov last for sp30 and now this which will probably be 4 points.
Course if it was a stolen car with no insurance, tax or MOT and I had no license I get off with a slapped wrist!!
If you reply, accepting the conditional offer of a fixed penalty then you will get three points. If you go to court, then chsnces are you will have 4 points added and a larger fine.
If you do to court and say that you don't know if it were you or the wife driving, then YOU will be liable to the prosecution as the registered keeper, and fine friends at you local constabularly will probably also try and have you up for obstructing a Police enquiry, or perverting the course of Justice, or some other rediculous charge.
Can I take a guess that the dual carriage way in question was virtually empty and the weather conditions were dry and sunny?
If you do to court and say that you don't know if it were you or the wife driving, then YOU will be liable to the prosecution as the registered keeper, and fine friends at you local constabularly will probably also try and have you up for obstructing a Police enquiry, or perverting the course of Justice, or some other rediculous charge.
Can I take a guess that the dual carriage way in question was virtually empty and the weather conditions were dry and sunny?
Actually all good advice chaps, tried to convice the misses to take the points but she's proud of her clean license, like the idea of catching up with that student who borrowed the car, but suspect he wasn't insured so could be a can of worms!!
If Mr Masterofpuppets is correct and I only get the 3 points then I guess thats not to bad, i.e I still have two lives left. But If I get 4, then I'm dangerously close to a full set of tiger tokens.
As per above it was a lovely clear day as I recall with light traffic and a heavy foot!!
Can't blame the car though even the lamest motor will go 64 and my last fine was in the old Calibra.
Cheers all,
If Mr Masterofpuppets is correct and I only get the 3 points then I guess thats not to bad, i.e I still have two lives left. But If I get 4, then I'm dangerously close to a full set of tiger tokens.
As per above it was a lovely clear day as I recall with light traffic and a heavy foot!!
Can't blame the car though even the lamest motor will go 64 and my last fine was in the old Calibra.
Cheers all,
Ask all your questions on www.pepipoo.com/ they are the gods of law regarding these matters.
Even if convictions happen, have faith in the fact that it is merely a tax incentive and not a judge on your partners driving abilities. The government is currently in a war on the motorist becase they are an easy target to create revenue.
Good luck
Even if convictions happen, have faith in the fact that it is merely a tax incentive and not a judge on your partners driving abilities. The government is currently in a war on the motorist becase they are an easy target to create revenue.
Good luck
If considering the other half etc taking the points.
Dont forget, purjery is a VERY VERY serious offence.
If you do go down that route, which would be silly after hinting you might do on a public forum, just consider the risks.
Some people have done it, and got caught and nailed for it.
Dont forget, purjery is a VERY VERY serious offence.
If you do go down that route, which would be silly after hinting you might do on a public forum, just consider the risks.
Some people have done it, and got caught and nailed for it.
As already suggested - www.pepipoo.com has a LOT of material. There are a lot of different ways of fighting speeding NIPs - if nothing else, contesting it will (a) make them work for their money and (b) ensure that the money goes to the courts and NOT the scammers. Get on to pepipoo and spend as much time as you can afford reading up on other people's cases and how they have worked out.
I am fighting one at the moment. I absolutely will not roll over and cough up the cash and points when I was driving perfectly sensibly and safely, and even if I lose, they will have been made to work for it.
I am fighting one at the moment. I absolutely will not roll over and cough up the cash and points when I was driving perfectly sensibly and safely, and even if I lose, they will have been made to work for it.
From Pepipoo:
If you can show that after reasonable diligence you have been unable to determine the identity of the driver, you will not be guilty of S172 failure to provide.
More info http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s
If you can show that after reasonable diligence you have been unable to determine the identity of the driver, you will not be guilty of S172 failure to provide.
More info http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s
GT2man-2 said:
From Pepipoo:
If you can show that after reasonable diligence you have been unable to determine the identity of the driver, you will not be guilty of S172 failure to provide.
More info http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s
If you can show that after reasonable diligence you have been unable to determine the identity of the driver, you will not be guilty of S172 failure to provide.
More info http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s
Be careful though - "reasonable diligence" in the case of a S172 prosecution (what happens if you fail to name the driver) means bending over backwards to attempt to discover the truth. Just saying you couldn't remember is not enough, you have to show that you have exhausted all avenues of enquiry. For example, did you visit any filling stations, can you ask them for CCTV? (hint - wait until at least 28 days from the "offence" and their tapes will probably have been wiped, but the fact that you asked is considered "reasonable diligence"
. Collect evidence, copies of letters, leave no stone unturned - in fact, try your best to discover who was driving. If you cannot, then you should not be prosecuted for failing to name the driver, and in that case the speeding allegation should fall too as there is nobody to pin it on. If you find that you can identify the driver, take the 3 points and consider yourself lucky - you're only 2mph inside the usual limit for a FPN!
As has already been said though - Pepipoo is your friend.
ETA: doh, the link posted contains all of this advice
ETA (again) this is an excellent account of how to defend a S172 charge: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s
Edited by moosepig on Saturday 17th February 10:06
Stigmundfreud said:
hamilton defense
under law you do not have to incriminate your partner and visa versa
under law you do not have to incriminate your partner and visa versa
Laws were passed to remove such rights. Motoring offences are 100% guilty until you can prove yourslf innocent, which in 99% of cases, is all but impossible, or would be so damn expensive, most people just take the punishment whether guilty or not.
The government say its closing loopholes. Really, its removing all rights you might have.
moosepig said:
Stigmundfreud said:
hamilton defense
under law you do not have to incriminate your partner and visa versa
under law you do not have to incriminate your partner and visa versa
But this doesn't exempt you from your obligations under S172, does it?
BTW the photo in your profile keeps asking for a password
photos
letmein
but thanks for that i might go change the root files a bit..
"I'm not sure if I was driving or the misses was, so I returned the NIP unsigned and asked for the photographic evidence. It came back today with a photo of the back of the car etc etc..."
I'v used this one too( as well as many others in the past), if you stand your ground you are unlikely to get the points but the fine will be £3-750.00 ( can be over £1K if they so wish ), or pay the fine & take the points, your choice, thats it is in a nut shell, then go & buy a road angel ( £200.00 ), these are a licence saver!!
I'v used this one too( as well as many others in the past), if you stand your ground you are unlikely to get the points but the fine will be £3-750.00 ( can be over £1K if they so wish ), or pay the fine & take the points, your choice, thats it is in a nut shell, then go & buy a road angel ( £200.00 ), these are a licence saver!!
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