LS1 vs LS2

[Stigmundfreud]

Now I am not particularly bothered by the slight difference of power between the LS1 and LS2, nor am I bothered about the cable throttle body vs fly by wire either.....

the Americans on the other hand seem to have a huge undercurrent of feelings that the LS1 is vastly inferior to the LS2. Quotes of the LS2 having much stronger blocks, much more power, fly by wire is da bomb etc.

www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130080

That is the thread and its amazing to read as until I read that I hd never encountered such crap about one being better than the other. Also with regards to the LS2 being stronger I thought it had potential issues from what some here had said due to the changes in cooling etc? I'm not looking to start a yours is better than mine but just really interested to hear why the undercurrent felt in that thread doesn't appear here?

From reading some comments from posters it seems a few GTO owners were bought the cars by their parents (not all) and maybe that's where some of it comes from? It looks as though in the states the GTO is a fairly cheap car so perhaps brings a different mentality?

[ringram]

LS2 has seimeased bores which helps strenght, but hinders cooling a little.
Also LS2 has uprated heads over the LS1. Plus GenIV cam sensor and knock sensors which are located differently from memory.
Factor in 300cc more capacity and there you go.

[greens vauxhall]

ringram said:

LS2 has seimeased bores which helps strenght, but hinders cooling a little.
Also LS2 has uprated heads over the LS1. Plus GenIV cam sensor and knock sensors which are located differently from memory.
Factor in 300cc more capacity and there you go.

In Monaro, LS2 cars have always ran cooler than LS1 cars, whenever I have read loggings.

[weltmeister]

My take on this is simple. V8 small block enters production in 1958 [at c283 c.i.d ?] it morphs into 327 then 350 during '60's. 90,000,000 engines in the small block family have been produced in the ensuing years. The LS1 is realistically just the same as it was in 1970 but with the addition of fuel injection & coil on plug ignition. It is in essence at the end of its developed life, whereas the LS2 is only at the beginning of its journey of development. This has allowed engineers to alter things that could not be altered cost effectively on LS1.

Cheers

Allan

Edited by weltmeister on Friday 9th March 11:32

[ringram]

greens vauxhall said:

In Monaro, LS2 cars have always ran cooler than LS1 cars, whenever I have read loggings.

The fans work differently between the two due to the different ECM. LS2 have an almost totally variable fan speed depending on engine temp, whereas LS1 is either on or off depending on temp. So in theory LS2 has better fan control.
Interesting though.

[Stigmundfreud]

so whilst the LS1 is certainly older and down on capacity, being at the end of its development life means it is currently (probably) the better option with regards to tuning but the LS2 will surpass this as more knowledge is learnt?

[mackie1]

Huh? The LS1 was all-new in 1997, the LS2 is just a development of it. The LS1 has nothing in common with the old SBC apart from the basic design.

[ringram]

Yep, the LT1 from 93 however is more along the lines of the old Iron block.

LS1 and LS2 are very closely related. Same heads fit either, cranks, cams, intakes etc. Even the LS7 isnt that different.

[RichardD]

mackie1 said:

Huh? The LS1 was all-new in 1997, the LS2 is just a development of it. The LS1 has nothing in common with the old SBC apart from the basic design.

Interesting topic this.

Indeed, from one of the two LS1/6 tuning books I've got - it was mentioned that the Gen 3 development budget was $1.6B !!!!

LS1 = base engine, LS6 = better heads and cam (probably other things but I forget).
LS2 still uses the LS6 head?

The LS2 (and 7) get called Gen 4, I don't quite understand this as the difference between them isn't as big (enormous more like) as the SBC and LS1 !?!

Anyone please correct that if wrong!

[boosted ls1]

weltmeister said:

The LS1 is realistically just the same as it was in 1970 but with the addition of fuel injection & coil on plug ignition. It is in essence at the end of its developed life, whereas the LS2 is only at the beginning of its journey of development. This has allowed engineers to alter things that could not be altered cost effectively on LS1.

Cheers

Allan

Edited by weltmeister on Friday 9th March 11:32

Not so Allan. The ls1 (and all gen 3 series) was a brand new development with nothing in common with Gen 1&2iron block stuff apart from the rod shells. LS2 is a simple evolution of the ls1. I wouldn't use an ls2 for a custom build. If starting from scratch I'd use an ls1 block and probably a non windowed version depending on the intended application. Ls2 does have siamesed liners and it also has raised jacket floors to support the weaker liners, so there's less coolant capacity in the block. This sort of stuff caused issues with the older 400 ci chev. All this work on an ls2 for 300 extra cc it seems a bit pointless. Still, there must have been a reason for it? I think there were also cost cuttings with the ls2 so questions about quality have been raised.

Boosted.

[stevieturbo]

weltmeister said:

My take on this is simple. V8 small block enters production in 1958 [at c283 c.i.d ?] it morphs into 327 then 350 during '60's. 90,000,000 engines in the small block family have been produced in the ensuing years. The LS1 is realistically just the same as it was in 1970 but with the addition of fuel injection & coil on plug ignition. It is in essence at the end of its developed life, whereas the LS2 is only at the beginning of its journey of development. This has allowed engineers to alter things that could not be altered cost effectively on LS1.

Cheers

Allan

Edited by weltmeister on Friday 9th March 11:32

Id also disagree on this. The LS1 is nothing like the old SBC engine. Sure you arent getting confused with the older LT1 ?

The only parts an LSx shares with the old SBC, are the conrod bearings. The LSx was designed with performance in mind from the outset, and its designers achieved everything they set out to.... and probably a lot more.

When the LS2 block appeared, there were concerns about its strength due to its open deck design, as opposed to a stronger closed deck of the LS1/6 blocks.

Obviously a different liner design, as ensured strength is fine though, and some do now favour the LS2 block.

[Gelf VXR]

ringram said:

Yep, the LT1 from 93 however is more along the lines of the old Iron block.

LS1 and LS2 are very closely related. Same heads fit either, cranks, cams, intakes etc. Even the LS7 isnt that different.

Is the LS2 an aluminium block?

[ringram]

Yes, alloy block and heads, same as LS1 and LS7 do.
Some of the truck engines LQ9 and LQ4 are iron LSx style blocks.

The new L98 VE Holden has an LS2 GenIV 6L block with the L92 truck heads FWIW.

Edited by ringram on Friday 9th March 15:33

[P15TON]

Our experince of the LS2 versus the LS1 for big capacity race engines (14:1 Compression 7.0 litre Moslers) has the LS2 based block leagues ahead of the LS1 based block for reliabilty. (Both using Darton liners.) Just an observation.

[stigcv8]

so you can basically rip the head off an ls2 and stick em onto the LS1? Well not that easy but the better ls2 heads will fit?

[ringram]

stigcv8 said:

so you can basically rip the head off an ls2 and stick em onto the LS1? Well not that easy but the better ls2 heads will fit?

Yes then you have in effect an LS6 engine. I think Sean had this done for his heads and cam upgrade.
It is basically that easy too.

[Boosted Ls1]

What about chamber diameter, is it bigger for the ls2?

Boosted.

[Le Sarthe]

Yep I have LS6 heads and a nice chunky cam

[stigcv8]

prob just the head and crank?

[ringram]

Boosted Ls1 said:

What about chamber diameter, is it bigger for the ls2?

Boosted.

Yes they are a little bigger. I hear you can only get the 4" head gaskets now anyway, plus its not too much bigger.
I guess its not significant. Not sure if the LS6 and LS2 heads differ in chamber diameter or not.