Critique my baby cam plan

[KMud]

Here's what I have, assume OE if not mentioned:

2004 Monaro LS1 ~36k miles
X-air OTR
AAS medium headers & 200 cell cats
Wortec back
LS7 clutch

Thinking aloud, my plan is to put on 243 heads and slide in a baby cam to make a well-rounded street car. I am assuming I will fall short of the magic 400rwhp/500fwhp, but it should pull well from low revs and not need constant top-end rebuilds. I will later seek more acceleration with gearing and lightening, but hopefully at some point I can call the car 'done' and just enjoy/maintain ().

Cam: I am currently looking at the 206/212-112 Comp cam with XFI lobes (259/265), but it might be a bit close to the LS6 cam LS2 owners already have . I want low/mid pull more than anything, but may bump to 212/218-114 or 216/220-114 (or near). I don't think I want more than about .550" lift, I'm a worrier! I believe any of these cams should match well with the flow rates at relatively low lift the 243s offer, and should all play ok with my LS6 intake.
Heads: I am not looking to get the 243s ported, but may skim slightly to bump compression.
Springs: Singles - Comp 918.
Pushrods/lifters/retainers: As here.
Rockers: Stockers.
Trays: Undecided. LS2? Remove and link lifters?
Oil pump: Leave as is? Low miles on engine.
Throttle body/intake: Leave stock.
MAF: Uprated or removed depending on who tunes it.
Tune: Yup. Transport to tuner potentially an issue though!

Missed anything? Poor decisions?

[anonymous-user]

KMud said:

Missed anything?

Supercharger?

[KMud]

wormus said:

Supercharger?

Haha, probably not...at least for now.

[well_fans]

Look higher up with the cam, a 218/224 or 224/228 with 114 lsa should still be fine for mot. Pretty sure its 243 heads on the ls1 Monaro already, sure that was what i sold to Simon to get flowed?

[KMud]

well_fans said:

Look higher up with the cam, a 218/224 or 224/228 with 114 lsa should still be fine for mot. Pretty sure its 243 heads on the ls1 Monaro already, sure that was what i sold to Simon to get flowed?

Think it's 241s on a LS1, 243s on an LS2.

At what sort of revs do these larger cams kick in? I don't want to compromise on the low end and think I would need to buy more bits for big breathing at high rpms.

[nosubstitute]

I've got an '05 LS1 CV8 with 243 heads on and a Monkfish cam and the car made 365RWHP.

Drives really nice, no idling or surging issues. You can tell the engine has a cam but is as drivable as it was when totally stock. Performance is excellent and revs very hard and quick right up to the redline.

I asked for a 'conservative' tune so there is probably more on the table and my 365RWHP was when the car was badly heat soaked so not running the full timing.

Worth giving Monkfish a call to discuss.

[gsd2000]

220/220 is a good baby cam, the aussies like it

[KMud]

nosubstitute said:

I've got an '05 LS1 CV8 with 243 heads on and a Monkfish cam and the car made 365RWHP.

Drives really nice, no idling or surging issues. You can tell the engine has a cam but is as drivable as it was when totally stock. Performance is excellent and revs very hard and quick right up to the redline.

I asked for a 'conservative' tune so there is probably more on the table and my 365RWHP was when the car was badly heat soaked so not running the full timing.

Worth giving Monkfish a call to discuss.

As good as Monkfish are I have limited upgrade funds. I am tempted to ask Roger to do the tune, but no question it's the reassuringly expensive option (and would be a definite motivator for doing 'the works' and calling the engine 'done'). Sounds like you've got the kind of setup I'm aiming for

[KMud]

gsd2000 said:

220/220 is a good baby cam, the aussies like it

Baby is relative, the Yanks seem to call 224s and even 228s babies! Those Comp kits seem like an easy life, though it did target limit choice.

[ringram]

Definitely think bigger on cam. Absolute min 216/220, but I would not do that. Its too pathetic. Simon passed emissions on his 223/231-112 cam so forget the bks trotted out about staying small to pass emissions. Gareth's 224/232-114 also passes easily.

I have a 219/227 in the camaro LS1 and its fine, plenty of torque down low. In fact too much.

If you want a small cam the 218/222 here will be good. http://www.cammotion.com/Street-Performance-C202.a...

But if I were you Id go for the 603 cam on this page http://www.cammotion.com/Street-and-Strip-C203.asp...

Failing that something similar from Comp.

Lift is not what stresses the valvetrain its the cam lobe profile, valve, pushrod and rocker weights etc. Comp now do the LXR and HUC lobes which are designed to be nice, but still give good lift etc.

You wont gain much/anything over a well setup stock setup with those small cams you note. Put in a decent cam or forget it.
You might as well just bolt on some 1.8 ratio rockers otherwise.

[ringram]

Oh also as long as the car idles ok when installed, just drive to the tuner.
In closed loop fueling will be fine. Run high octane fuel and listen for knock. Depending on cam your actual compression ratio may increase.
Just keep off the throttle and stay at light load.

[bimbleuk]

I like Ringham's post as it saves me some typing. With your first cams mentioned the 243 heads probably wouldn't be worth hassle/expense to install for the benefits. Though they would support future mods.

I've just spent a month or so learning to tune my LS1. I've already got a free flowing exhaust setup. 80mm Edelbrock throttle body and an LS2 85mm MAF to aid breathing. I've currently got a Comp Cams XR275HR-12, 222/224, 0.556/0.558 cam waiting to go in with the extras.

Checking my logs I appear to be at 85-87% injector duty now at 6200 RPM (Ringham does that sound right?) so I bought an uprated set on Ebay.com to arrive this week (36 lb @ 43.5 PSI).

All starts to add up so I'm not in a hurry to swap my heads. I believe I'm currently at 330 RWHP from the two dynos I've been on (one was indicating 345 but that was probably optimistic).

[jameshsv]

Ls1 heads are not good at flowing air.à good n/a set up costs money.save up and do the job once.!

[jameshsv]

Ls1 heads are not good at flowing air.à good n/a set up costs money.save up and do the job once.!

[KMud]

ringram said:

Definitely think bigger on cam. Absolute min 216/220, but I would not do that. Its too pathetic. Simon passed emissions on his 223/231-112 cam so forget the bks trotted out about staying small to pass emissions. Gareth's 224/232-114 also passes easily.

I have a 219/227 in the camaro LS1 and its fine, plenty of torque down low. In fact too much.

If you want a small cam the 218/222 here will be good. http://www.cammotion.com/Street-Performance-C202.a...

But if I were you Id go for the 603 cam on this page http://www.cammotion.com/Street-and-Strip-C203.asp...

Failing that something similar from Comp.

Lift is not what stresses the valvetrain its the cam lobe profile, valve, pushrod and rocker weights etc. Comp now do the LXR and HUC lobes which are designed to be nice, but still give good lift etc.

You wont gain much/anything over a well setup stock setup with those small cams you note. Put in a decent cam or forget it.
You might as well just bolt on some 1.8 ratio rockers otherwise.

I'm not too worried on emissions, especially since I have 200 cell cats - I know people are passing here on ~224/230 as you said. My concern is moving the powerband high where it's less useful to me and where my OE TB/intake will start to bottleneck. When a cam spec says it doesn't do much before 1300-1500 rpm I wonder whether I'll enjoy living with the car as much.

Will look into those lobes.

[KMud]

jameshsv said:

Ls1 heads are not good at flowing air.à good n/a set up costs money.save up and do the job once.!

Plan is once, right...just have to draw a line somewhere! 243 heads are cheap, as is a cam. Ancillary valvetrain bits also cheap. FAST intake + TB + ported heads + ported intake + longtube headers, etc. is another league in terms of expense though

[jameshsv]

[quote=KMud]

Plan is once, right...just have to draw a line somewhere! 243 heads are cheap, as is a cam. Ancillary valvetrain bits also cheap. FAST intake + TB + ported heads + ported intake + longtube headers, etc. is another league in terms of expense though [
Unless you already have headers cats exhaust à cam on its own will knot do much.

[jameshsv]

[quote=KMud]

Plan is once, right...just have to draw a line somewhere! 243 heads are cheap, as is a cam. Ancillary valvetrain bits also cheap. FAST intake + TB + ported heads + ported intake + longtube headers, etc. is another league in terms of expense though [
Unless you already have headers cats exhaust à cam on its own will knot do much.

[KMud]

jameshsv said:

Unless you already have headers cats exhaust à cam on its own will knot do much.

Got those bits. Sound was reason enough!

[ringram]

KMud said:

I'm not too worried on emissions, especially since I have 200 cell cats - I know people are passing here on ~224/230 as you said. My concern is moving the powerband high where it's less useful to me and where my OE TB/intake will start to bottleneck. When a cam spec says it doesn't do much before 1300-1500 rpm I wonder whether I'll enjoy living with the car as much.

Will look into those lobes.

Do a search for Stick100's post on his 240 duration cam that in his LS1 beat an LS3 and cam setup.
He lost zero torque down low and gained power everywhere, often when people say you lose low down power, they mean in proportion to upper RPM power.

So a larger cam should not lose off idle torque if done right. Look at the valve events and do a search for Dynamic compression. You will learn much. You can raise cranking pressure with a new cam and gain over stock.

The cams I mentioned will give you plenty of low down torque. Once you head over 224 on the intake in an LS1 though you will end up having to close the intake valve later and later to fit the duration in. Its all a balance, but some time spent with Mr Google SCR, DCR, LSA, LCA etc will help. Comp has some good articles etc. This can be fixed with more static compression such as given with some new heads etc. LS2 heads will add half a point of compression, which actually is where some of the gains come from too.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1561460457-post13.... for an example. Stock vs Heads and Cam. No loss down low...