Service history records - Vantage
Discussion
Hi all
I'm currently looking at a 2012 Aston Martin Vantage. The car looks good and it's had some decent money spent on the car over the past couple of years including nearly £6k on subframe/under car work and £4k on new clutch and rear brake discs and pads.
However, I generally like a wedge of paperwork with cars I buy and all the current owner has is two invoices for the work above. The car does come with the service manual which has been stamped every year on the dot at either Aston Martin Cardiff or Bristol but no invoices.
Does anyone know if main dealers keep and will give you a copy of service work carried out on your car? While I've no doubt the car has been well maintained it would be good to have a full history of work that's been carried out on the car so wondering if I could request this?
Thanks
Trev
I'm currently looking at a 2012 Aston Martin Vantage. The car looks good and it's had some decent money spent on the car over the past couple of years including nearly £6k on subframe/under car work and £4k on new clutch and rear brake discs and pads.
However, I generally like a wedge of paperwork with cars I buy and all the current owner has is two invoices for the work above. The car does come with the service manual which has been stamped every year on the dot at either Aston Martin Cardiff or Bristol but no invoices.
Does anyone know if main dealers keep and will give you a copy of service work carried out on your car? While I've no doubt the car has been well maintained it would be good to have a full history of work that's been carried out on the car so wondering if I could request this?
Thanks
Trev
Hi Trev,
I wouldnt worry about it too much. My car came with a similar amount of paperwork as the previous owner had bought it from a garage that didnt include any previous paperwork due to “GDPR” so i too only got invoices for work/annual services undertaken during the then current owner’s ownership. This included a twin plate clutch upgrade by BR, full brake replacement by DAE as well as the annual servicing undertaken by HWM.
Like yours, the manual had a full history of stamps but from HWM so i gave them a call and they kindly validated all of the previous service history over the phone from their systems and also confirmed that no other major pieces of work had been done to the car nor had major any issues been flagged during those previous services so i felt that was sufficient. If you give AM Cardiff and Bristol a call they may be able to do the same?
Cheers
I wouldnt worry about it too much. My car came with a similar amount of paperwork as the previous owner had bought it from a garage that didnt include any previous paperwork due to “GDPR” so i too only got invoices for work/annual services undertaken during the then current owner’s ownership. This included a twin plate clutch upgrade by BR, full brake replacement by DAE as well as the annual servicing undertaken by HWM.
Like yours, the manual had a full history of stamps but from HWM so i gave them a call and they kindly validated all of the previous service history over the phone from their systems and also confirmed that no other major pieces of work had been done to the car nor had major any issues been flagged during those previous services so i felt that was sufficient. If you give AM Cardiff and Bristol a call they may be able to do the same?
Cheers
When I got mine, it came with all the invoices back to when the car was new. The guy said at the time said a fair few dealers were starting to throw away invoices because of GDPR (or the misunderstanding of it).
Luckily they gave me the whole folder, and his view was it was an important part of the car's history and should be kept, but also the past owners have been happy to give the paperwork over with the car, so why shouldn't it be handed on?
This ties in with this view from a solicitor on the subject.
"In the meantime, we have had a number of enquiries around personal details left on invoices handed over with a vehicle and in particular, questions around paperwork handed over with classic cars. In the case of classic cars, having a full ownership history can add significant value to a car and so there is a real value in retaining these details. The same can apply to invoices handed over with a part exchange as it can evidence work undertaken and any warranty information.
Some dealers have decided to black out the personal details when handing paperwork from previous owners over but there is no reason why this needs to be done. It is our view, that if a person didn’t want their details to be passed on, they would have removed them from the car. A dealer wouldn’t be passing on random details, just those in relation to the car’s history which a previous owner has made available."
There is a lot of waffle there, but it could be why you don't have any paperwork, I would see if you can get any info out of the dealers.
Luckily they gave me the whole folder, and his view was it was an important part of the car's history and should be kept, but also the past owners have been happy to give the paperwork over with the car, so why shouldn't it be handed on?
This ties in with this view from a solicitor on the subject.
"In the meantime, we have had a number of enquiries around personal details left on invoices handed over with a vehicle and in particular, questions around paperwork handed over with classic cars. In the case of classic cars, having a full ownership history can add significant value to a car and so there is a real value in retaining these details. The same can apply to invoices handed over with a part exchange as it can evidence work undertaken and any warranty information.
Some dealers have decided to black out the personal details when handing paperwork from previous owners over but there is no reason why this needs to be done. It is our view, that if a person didn’t want their details to be passed on, they would have removed them from the car. A dealer wouldn’t be passing on random details, just those in relation to the car’s history which a previous owner has made available."
There is a lot of waffle there, but it could be why you don't have any paperwork, I would see if you can get any info out of the dealers.
My car came with a fully stamped service book but no other history, apart from one photocopy of a service invoice. The dealer didn't even let me see the back of the V5 saying that the previous owner had insisted he be kept a secret! Somebody with a shady past maybe (like the dealer).
However the photocopy allowed me to contact the original owner, who'd had the car for all but the previous year. I asked him about all the paperwork/invoices/receipts, and he said that when he went to trade it in at Aston Sevenoaks, they didn't want it and said he could throw it away...
I've found AM dealers to be helpful about filling in history over the phone but yes, they are fearful of 'GDPR'.
However the photocopy allowed me to contact the original owner, who'd had the car for all but the previous year. I asked him about all the paperwork/invoices/receipts, and he said that when he went to trade it in at Aston Sevenoaks, they didn't want it and said he could throw it away...
I've found AM dealers to be helpful about filling in history over the phone but yes, they are fearful of 'GDPR'.
The GDPR thing would probably explain the lack of history with the car, thanks all.
It's a shame as these cars are special and I like to have all the history of the car. My last car was a 1967 series 1 E-type and I traced the history back to the original owner which was Rupert Murdoch's news corp on Fleet street. I'd be interested to see what happens with really historically significant cars that come up for auction etc. They surely won't erase that history because of GDPR.
Trev
It's a shame as these cars are special and I like to have all the history of the car. My last car was a 1967 series 1 E-type and I traced the history back to the original owner which was Rupert Murdoch's news corp on Fleet street. I'd be interested to see what happens with really historically significant cars that come up for auction etc. They surely won't erase that history because of GDPR.
Trev
This GDPR business is supposed to be about humans. In the motor trade, those four letters seem to stand for, I cannot be bothered.
I had a funny experience, when close the moment of agreeing a Vantage purchase.
The situation was so similar to the Two Ronnies sketch, where Abdul took a pile of money away from the counter top, then Ronnie Barker immediately changed his attitude. The cash was then returned to the counter top.
I asked for the service records and was presented with an entire detailed printout, even including the PDI inspection (charged to sales), not even a mention of GDPR. Commission was all that was on that salesman's mind. -
It can be awkward, because some owners might be a bit guarded about their invoice documents, perhaps assuming that the service stamps create the record.
Jon39 said:
It can be awkward, because some owners might be a bit guarded about their invoice documents, perhaps assuming that the service stamps create the record.
Especially when most owners have handed it to the dealer in the first place.
It is just a lack of basic knowledge/laziness.
This all raises an interesting point about modern cars and electronic service histories. My DB11 came with a five year service plan and warranty so there were no invoices for the early part of its life except for tyres since I never had to pay anything. Every time I picked up the car they just gave me the keys back and verbally told me if they had done anything. I had to remind them to stamp the service book, which they were always happy to do, but I didn’t get the impression they thought it was important. I did wander what happened once the car left the MD network if all the records were on the AM database or if AM went bust and disappeared, hence my insistence on stamps.
When I started to think about changing the car I did ask the service manager and he said he was happy to print out all its electronic records for me but we never got around to doing it. IN the end I PX’d it with the same dealer for a DBX so wasn’t an issue. Do others just trust the electronic records or do they insist on paperwork ever time to build a folder ?
When I started to think about changing the car I did ask the service manager and he said he was happy to print out all its electronic records for me but we never got around to doing it. IN the end I PX’d it with the same dealer for a DBX so wasn’t an issue. Do others just trust the electronic records or do they insist on paperwork ever time to build a folder ?
TheRainMaker said:
Especially when most owners have handed it to the dealer in the first place.
It is just a lack of basic knowledge/laziness.
My old school reunion dinner took a major hit after they decided that GDPR meant they could no longer e-mail the alumni without consent. The event is no longer financially viable and has been cancelled. You'd think that leaving the EU would have ended the nonsense but we've replaced their GDPR with our own GDPR It is just a lack of basic knowledge/laziness.
Westlondondriver said:
This all raises an interesting point about modern cars and electronic service histories. My DB11 came with a five year service plan and warranty so there were no invoices for the early part of its life except for tyres since I never had to pay anything. Every time I picked up the car they just gave me the keys back and verbally told me if they had done anything. I had to remind them to stamp the service book, which they were always happy to do, but I didn’t get the impression they thought it was important. I did wander what happened once the car left the MD network if all the records were on the AM database or if AM went bust and disappeared, hence my insistence on stamps.
When I started to think about changing the car I did ask the service manager and he said he was happy to print out all its electronic records for me but we never got around to doing it. IN the end I PX’d it with the same dealer for a DBX so wasn’t an issue. Do others just trust the electronic records or do they insist on paperwork ever time to build a folder ?
Mine is quite a bit older than yours, and probably before electronic service histories were a thing, but I still get a hard copy of the service invoice and a stamp in the book, they even use a post-it over the stamp to stop it making a mark on the opposite page, which is a nice touch.When I started to think about changing the car I did ask the service manager and he said he was happy to print out all its electronic records for me but we never got around to doing it. IN the end I PX’d it with the same dealer for a DBX so wasn’t an issue. Do others just trust the electronic records or do they insist on paperwork ever time to build a folder ?
I use the Flying Technician from HWM.
TheRainMaker said:
This is fine. It was more the blanket "we can't give out service information and have thrown it away" because of GDPR.
Especially when most owners have handed it to the dealer in the first place.
It is just a lack of basic knowledge/laziness.
At the risk of derailing the thread (although it is still tangentially on-topic) I'd be interested in you justifying your last statement.Especially when most owners have handed it to the dealer in the first place.
It is just a lack of basic knowledge/laziness.
Just to keep part of my post on-topic, when I bought my then 3-year-old V8V all I received was the stamped service book. At the time I did have access to an additional source of information that was able to give me a detailed break-down of all service and, more importantly, warranty work that had been carried out on the three "candidate" cars I was considering at the time. I still needed to get the oil leak from the engine front cover fixed under "Timeless" shortly after the purchase - something that my dealer found during the PDI.
LTP said:
TheRainMaker said:
This is fine. It was more the blanket "we can't give out service information and have thrown it away" because of GDPR.
Especially when most owners have handed it to the dealer in the first place.
It is just a lack of basic knowledge/laziness.
At the risk of derailing the thread (although it is still tangentially on-topic) I'd be interested in you justifying your last statement.Especially when most owners have handed it to the dealer in the first place.
It is just a lack of basic knowledge/laziness.
There is no reason not to pass on history because of GDPR.
TheRainMaker said:
As quoted earlier in the thread with the extract from a solicitor looking into this.
There is no reason not to pass on history because of GDPR.
Ah, missed that. Apologies.There is no reason not to pass on history because of GDPR.
I'm not a solicitor but I suspect that, unless specific permission was sought and obtained that passing on the previous owners' addresses (and, bear in mind, that there could be multiple previous owners involved) was allowed, the dealer could find themselves in breach of GDPR. The website that offers this advice (or at least one of them) also appears to agree and recommends that this is not done without warning the previous owner:
"Dealers wanting to follow this approach should add a sentence to reflect this processing usage in their Privacy Notice. We suggest something along the lines of: “If documents are handed over with a part exchange or a vehicle brought into stock from elsewhere we will keep these documents with the vehicle to help evidence the history of the vehicle. This is a legitimate interest not only for us and any new owner but for the wider market in regard to fraud prevention and safety.” Source:https://www.lawgistics.co.uk/blog/legal_updates/gdpr-and-service-history/
I guess this would be fine if there were only the information on the previous owner in the documentation handed over, but it would be interesting how this permission would pass down any ownership chain, particularly details dating to before GDPR introduction. It is also just a legal opinion and would probably need to be tested in a court. It may or may not be relevant that Lawgistics is not an SRA-regulated law practice
Mine came with a massive wedge of invoices. The owners manual / service book had been lost but there was a replacement book fully stamped and signed by the dealer to reflect the service history. It only ever went to one AM dealer from new.
To me the receipts are worth more than the stamps. Stamps are much easier to 'forge' than full receipts.
As others have said, when selling / buying through dealers data protection is used as a reason/excuse not to hold the paperwork. My OH p/xed a car with a dealer. She had a full folder of all the receipts for services etc. since new and took it to the dealer with the car. She was told they couldn't have it because it had all her details on ad told her to chuck it away.
What a waste,
To me the receipts are worth more than the stamps. Stamps are much easier to 'forge' than full receipts.
As others have said, when selling / buying through dealers data protection is used as a reason/excuse not to hold the paperwork. My OH p/xed a car with a dealer. She had a full folder of all the receipts for services etc. since new and took it to the dealer with the car. She was told they couldn't have it because it had all her details on ad told her to chuck it away.
What a waste,
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