Bamford Rose Engine blueprint and upgrade V8 Vantage S
Discussion
I’d definitely want to see a dyno graph before committing. 111 bhp per litre from a naturally aspirated lump is usually going to involve revs, and lots of them. The power might be right at the top end and therefore inaccessible to 99% of public-road driving.
That said, if it’s a flat power curve, with plenty of midrange, it could be a monster.
I can’t help thinking that the cheaper route to 500+ bhp in a VH-era Vantage is to sell the 4.7 and get a V12S
That said, if it’s a flat power curve, with plenty of midrange, it could be a monster.
I can’t help thinking that the cheaper route to 500+ bhp in a VH-era Vantage is to sell the 4.7 and get a V12S
Beckson said:
I was thinking BR also increased displacement? Wasn't there someone on here who had BR rebuild the V8 to 5 litres or more? Then a V12 to like 6.5L?
Yes, I remember the post about a larger capacity 4·7 V8. The project was given a name.
After completion the post went quiet though.
Hope the engine did not go quiet as well.
Wonder what happened ?
A V12 to 6·5 litres sounds similar to a One-77 engine.
I have a vague recollection of reading that the 4.7 couldn’t safely be bored out any further, so AM also had to stroke it to get the capacity.
If anyone is increasing capacity, it can only realistically come from further stroking, which is going to increase piston speeds and hamper revs
Yes, I know it’s possible to modify blocks (liners?) but the cost would be astronomical for not much gain. As I said earlier, just buy a V12…
If anyone is increasing capacity, it can only realistically come from further stroking, which is going to increase piston speeds and hamper revs
Yes, I know it’s possible to modify blocks (liners?) but the cost would be astronomical for not much gain. As I said earlier, just buy a V12…
yvr said:
The car was named "Purdey", user "robgt" as I recall. Written about extensively on here many years ago.
Lots of reading here, even including a dyno chart.
The page of about mid-point through the topic.
The 6.5 litre car seems to be named Lewis.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I don’t think BR ever promised 525bhp on a 4.7l blueprinted engine. I think it’s around 500bhp, plus an increase in responsiveness. So more power and less inertia equates to a bigger than paper difference. I think the 525bhp figure comes from then adding the twin throttle upgrade.
In terms of cost, it’s very expensive. So expensive that it’s only worth it if you need an engine rebuild.
In terms of cost, it’s very expensive. So expensive that it’s only worth it if you need an engine rebuild.
Ah ok makes sense,
Ironically my engine blew in 2022 (big end bearing failure) and was repaired by Aston Martin under warranty. I could look at selling mine and buying a V12, but I have not seen one so mint yet, and in the colour combination that I Have. Mine is a Vantage s manual in cobalt blue with white leather. Perhaps I need to think more with my head over my heart.
Ironically my engine blew in 2022 (big end bearing failure) and was repaired by Aston Martin under warranty. I could look at selling mine and buying a V12, but I have not seen one so mint yet, and in the colour combination that I Have. Mine is a Vantage s manual in cobalt blue with white leather. Perhaps I need to think more with my head over my heart.
I had this race car built by BR with their GT4 4.7. I raced it in AMOC GT4 races against the Works cars, and we were quicker. Andy Palmer sent one of his team down to look at it as it was quicker than his car and sounded totally different.
So either BR (Adrian) built a great engine, or it had a different exhaust set-up, and Andy and Co were just slow.
So either BR (Adrian) built a great engine, or it had a different exhaust set-up, and Andy and Co were just slow.
sounds like good power 500 to 525hp from the v8 engine, I saw it can be done on the 4.3 and 4.7 engine, its a lot from 385-435 engines, but I guess sit can be done.
DeMan motorsport also go from 3.8 or the 4.0 to 4.5L and from 385-420hp to 560hp NA... from a flat six.
But I wonder how much that would cost for the 4.3 or 4.7 engine, I see on the site you can also send a engine and get it back tuned, but at what cost.
also what does it cost drive in drive out for you UK car nuts, this way you can have a lighter then the V12 car with same-ish power.
DeMan motorsport also go from 3.8 or the 4.0 to 4.5L and from 385-420hp to 560hp NA... from a flat six.
But I wonder how much that would cost for the 4.3 or 4.7 engine, I see on the site you can also send a engine and get it back tuned, but at what cost.
also what does it cost drive in drive out for you UK car nuts, this way you can have a lighter then the V12 car with same-ish power.
yvr said:
The car was named "Purdey", user "robgt" as I recall. Written about extensively on here many years ago.
Well, as the current owner of “Purdey” I can confirm that she never had that done. Starting as one of the first V8VS, Purdey got the stainless tuned length manifolds and remap, then the twin plate clutch and switchable Bilsteins. No engine strip at all. She was dyno’d before and after on same dyno at 422hp and 456hp, then was featured in both EVO and Vantage magazines in May 2013 before being written off the same month and all the ‘goodies’ removed before disposal by Insurance to some back street joker who bodged the repairs.Edited by yvr on Wednesday 24th January 17:53
It’s true that Rob used to be a prolific contributor on here (and I know he and Molly still sometimes have a look in) so it was easy to confirm precisely what was done before the crash.
Purdey was acquired in a sorry state by me in 2016 and after some years of sorting out legacy problems from the bodged repairs I found the original story on PH. After reading about how the mods made Rob feel I splashed on the exact same suite of upgrades which I am extremely happy with, apart from a tiny issue with the Bilsteins always going into ‘Race’ mode after about an hour of driving. I didn’t fancy the fix Mike offered so live with it.
Purdey revved harder and longer and achieved a 456bhp peak - any more than that without tear down would be difficult. Perhaps 470 or a genuine 100hp/litre would be possible with the very expensive twin throttle manifold, but even Rob baulked at that as did I.
A careful rebuild by a skilled outfit like BR with some gentle porting, full crank balancing and careful piston matching (blueprint) may permit an engine to rev even harder, reduce frictional losses further and allow the freer breathing to hang onto the torque a little longer may possibly yield 500hp and I believe that was all BR ever used to claim, though I understood that the twin throttle manifold was a prerequisite.
V8V Pete had a similar spec car to Purdey and after mishap last year recently had a full rebuild by BR, he may be in a better position to comment further.
“Purdey” remains in rude health and along with the others will be coming to France with me this year after AML finally gave me a CoC. I will be doing a thread about the cost and challenge of importing modified and classic AMs to the beaurocratic nightmare that is France for us Brexit Brits in the coming months…
Edited by Calinours on Thursday 25th January 10:23
Calinours said:
Well, as the current owner of “Purdey” I can confirm that she never had that done. Starting as one of the first V8VS, Purdey got the stainless tuned length manifolds and remap, then the twin plate clutch and switchable Bilsteins. No engine strip at all. She was dyno’d before and after on same dyno at 422hp and 465hp _ _ _
The bhp figures are very interesting.
422 bhp, whereas I think Aston Martin claim 430 bhp for the V8VS.
Of greater significance is 465 bhp, an increase of 10% (43 bhp).
That is surprisingly impressive for simply changing the exhaust manifolds, which I think (for the year of your car) would also mean the primary cats go as well.
Wonder if the change to ECU programming contributes to the power increase, or maybe that is just to stop warning lights ?
The BR made manifolds are not only good looking then. The figures reveal that the engine is able to 'breath' far more easily.
Dewi 2 said:
Calinours said:
Well, as the current owner of “Purdey” I can confirm that she never had that done. Starting as one of the first V8VS, Purdey got the stainless tuned length manifolds and remap, then the twin plate clutch and switchable Bilsteins. No engine strip at all. She was dyno’d before and after on same dyno at 422hp and 465hp _ _ _
The bhp figures are very interesting.
422 bhp, whereas I think Aston Martin claim 430 bhp for the V8VS.
Of greater significance is 465 bhp, an increase of 10% (43 bhp).
That is surprisingly impressive for simply changing the exhaust manifolds, which I think (for the year of your car) would also mean the primary cats go as well.
Wonder if the change to ECU programming contributes to the power increase, or maybe that is just to stop warning lights ?
The BR made manifolds are not only good looking then. The figures reveal that the engine is able to 'breath' far more easily.
With dyno tests, what matters is the before and after, on the same dyno, ideally the same atmospheric conditions. and same thermal soak. Yes AML claimed 430bhp - only on 98RON fuel. On the dyno they used the baseline was 422.
Remember also that there will have been multiple runs on the dyno each time, each run will have produced a slightly different number as both the engine and measuring equipment heated up. Let’s assume that the ‘worst’ recorded dyno pull result was cited from the ‘before’ runs and the ‘best’ result was cited from the ‘after’ runs. I’d estimate that a genuine 20-30bhp gain is where the post mod car was/is at in the real world - and this corresponds with how it feels to me having driven both before and after.
Edited by Calinours on Thursday 25th January 10:25
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