Sportshift III Question
Discussion
I have a 2015 V12VS, and it's fantastic. As a huge fan of manual gearboxes, I am surprised, and delighted, at just how involving and enjoyable the SS III gearbox is. I think it is grossly underrated and I love that it needs the driver to drive it properly (using the paddles, of course) -- that's what makes it so involving and rewarding to use, much like a manual (and more fun IMO than a dual-clutch transmission or a torque-converter automatic). I couldn't care less that it doesn't work very well as an automatic. Anyway...
When driving a conventional manual, I always put the gearbox in neutral while stopped, for example at a red light. This extends the life of the throwout bearing since, in neutral with the clutch pedal released, the clutch is engaged -- the throwout bearing isn't doing anything. With the Sportshift III (as well as SS I and II), the general advice is to put it in neutral while stopped -- to reduce wear on the throwout bearing.
Here's my question: When at rest and idling in neutral with the Sportshift, is the clutch: 1) engaged (as it is with a conventional manual in neutral and the clutch pedal released); or 2) disengaged (as it is with a conventional manual in neutral and the clutch pedal depressed)? If it's the latter, then the throwout bearing is pushing against the clutch pressure plate regardless of whether the gearbox is in N or in 1st gear. If this is the case, then there wouldn't be any difference to throwout bearing wear whether you put the 'box in N or leave it in 1st while at rest. Does anyone know which way it works?
BTW, I know that the gearbox in the 2005 Vanquish S I had disengaged the clutch at idle in N as well as in 1st, so putting it in N while at rest made no difference to the throwout bearing.
When driving a conventional manual, I always put the gearbox in neutral while stopped, for example at a red light. This extends the life of the throwout bearing since, in neutral with the clutch pedal released, the clutch is engaged -- the throwout bearing isn't doing anything. With the Sportshift III (as well as SS I and II), the general advice is to put it in neutral while stopped -- to reduce wear on the throwout bearing.
Here's my question: When at rest and idling in neutral with the Sportshift, is the clutch: 1) engaged (as it is with a conventional manual in neutral and the clutch pedal released); or 2) disengaged (as it is with a conventional manual in neutral and the clutch pedal depressed)? If it's the latter, then the throwout bearing is pushing against the clutch pressure plate regardless of whether the gearbox is in N or in 1st gear. If this is the case, then there wouldn't be any difference to throwout bearing wear whether you put the 'box in N or leave it in 1st while at rest. Does anyone know which way it works?
BTW, I know that the gearbox in the 2005 Vanquish S I had disengaged the clutch at idle in N as well as in 1st, so putting it in N while at rest made no difference to the throwout bearing.
Edited by Speedraser on Friday 23 January 05:43
With my previous N420 with SSI, I was also told by the previous owner to put it in N at stops, but I always thought it was pretty much an empirical opinion.
I never did it, as in my mind (another very empirical opinion), switching between N and 1st all the time was putting more stress to the components than keeping 1st gear in the first place.
Clutch went out in a range that would be considered normal, around 67.000 km.
Of course, I might just be writing nonsense!
I never did it, as in my mind (another very empirical opinion), switching between N and 1st all the time was putting more stress to the components than keeping 1st gear in the first place.
Clutch went out in a range that would be considered normal, around 67.000 km.
Of course, I might just be writing nonsense!
Edited by EVR on Friday 23 January 08:02
Speedraser said:
When driving a conventional manual, I always put the gearbox in neutral while stopped, for example at a red light. This extends the life of the throwout bearing since, in neutral with the clutch pedal released, the clutch is engaged -- the throwout bearing isn't doing anything. With the Sportshift III (as well as SS I and II), the general advice is to put it in neutral while stopped -- to reduce wear on the throwout bearing.
Here's my question: When at rest and idling in neutral with the Sportshift, is the clutch: 1) engaged (as it is with a conventional manual in neutral and the clutch pedal released); or 2) disengaged (as it is with a conventional manual in neutral and the clutch pedal depressed)? If it's the latter, then the throwout bearing is pushing against the clutch pressure plate regardless of whether the gearbox is in N or in 1st gear. If this is the case, then there wouldn't be any difference to throwout bearing wear whether you put the 'box in N or leave it in 1st while at rest. Does anyone know which way it works?
BTW, I know that the gearbox in the 2005 Vanquish S I had disengaged the clutch at idle in N as well as in 1st, so putting it in N while at rest made no difference to the throwout bearing.
I'm pretty sure that the clutch in any SportShift transmission (I, II,or III) is never disengaged, as in a manual in neutral (but I'm willing to be educated). Here's my question: When at rest and idling in neutral with the Sportshift, is the clutch: 1) engaged (as it is with a conventional manual in neutral and the clutch pedal released); or 2) disengaged (as it is with a conventional manual in neutral and the clutch pedal depressed)? If it's the latter, then the throwout bearing is pushing against the clutch pressure plate regardless of whether the gearbox is in N or in 1st gear. If this is the case, then there wouldn't be any difference to throwout bearing wear whether you put the 'box in N or leave it in 1st while at rest. Does anyone know which way it works?
BTW, I know that the gearbox in the 2005 Vanquish S I had disengaged the clutch at idle in N as well as in 1st, so putting it in N while at rest made no difference to the throwout bearing.
I believe when you start (at least in SSII & SSIII) the car disengages the clutch and engages neutral (you can actually see briefly this flash on the gear selector indicator in the DIM) and the car then goes through the "clutch learn" where it finds the biting point of the clutch (the LED in "N" flashing as it does); it does not then disengage the clutch - it just sits there in 'N' with the hydraulic equivalent of the clutch pedal down, waiting for a gear to be engaged. It then obviously engages the clutch as you press the throttle pedal. When you stop at, say, traffic lights, the car will disengage the clutch and it will stay like that whether you engage neutral or not. So I don't think engaging neutral makes any difference to thrust ("throw-out") bearing engagement or wear.
LTP said:
I'm pretty sure that the clutch in any SportShift transmission (I, II,or III) is never disengaged, as in a manual in neutral (but I'm willing to be educated).
I believe when you start (at least in SSII & SSIII) the car disengages the clutch and engages neutral (you can actually see briefly this flash on the gear selector indicator in the DIM) and the car then goes through the "clutch learn" where it finds the biting point of the clutch (the LED in "N" flashing as it does); it does not then disengage the clutch - it just sits there in 'N' with the hydraulic equivalent of the clutch pedal down, waiting for a gear to be engaged. It then obviously engages the clutch as you press the throttle pedal. When you stop at, say, traffic lights, the car will disengage the clutch and it will stay like that whether you engage neutral or not. So I don't think engaging neutral makes any difference to thrust ("throw-out") bearing engagement or wear.
This is my thought also. Thanks for the replies.I believe when you start (at least in SSII & SSIII) the car disengages the clutch and engages neutral (you can actually see briefly this flash on the gear selector indicator in the DIM) and the car then goes through the "clutch learn" where it finds the biting point of the clutch (the LED in "N" flashing as it does); it does not then disengage the clutch - it just sits there in 'N' with the hydraulic equivalent of the clutch pedal down, waiting for a gear to be engaged. It then obviously engages the clutch as you press the throttle pedal. When you stop at, say, traffic lights, the car will disengage the clutch and it will stay like that whether you engage neutral or not. So I don't think engaging neutral makes any difference to thrust ("throw-out") bearing engagement or wear.
Have you got access to the official SportShift driving guide Aston Martin published? (For the later SportShift II and III cars.)
From the first SportShift in the original Vanquish, it was always advised that you engage neutral as you would if you were driving a manual car. At lights, for example, I would not normally hold in the clutch pedal for more that 5-10 seconds before putting it in neutral. Same with the SportShift.
When engaging neutral in mine (SportShift III), I never near or notice a mechanical movement. That’s not to say nothing happens. But remember the SportShift unit is just a manual gearbox with robotised shifting. So I suspect the clutch mechanism works identically apart from the fact it’s the system engaging the clutch pedal, not your foot.
As I mainly drive manuals, I’ll keep driving the SportShift as I would a manual.
As the OP states, it’s completely underrated.
From the first SportShift in the original Vanquish, it was always advised that you engage neutral as you would if you were driving a manual car. At lights, for example, I would not normally hold in the clutch pedal for more that 5-10 seconds before putting it in neutral. Same with the SportShift.
When engaging neutral in mine (SportShift III), I never near or notice a mechanical movement. That’s not to say nothing happens. But remember the SportShift unit is just a manual gearbox with robotised shifting. So I suspect the clutch mechanism works identically apart from the fact it’s the system engaging the clutch pedal, not your foot.
As I mainly drive manuals, I’ll keep driving the SportShift as I would a manual.
As the OP states, it’s completely underrated.
nickv12 said:
Have you got access to the official SportShift driving guide Aston Martin published? (For the later SportShift II and III cars.)
From the first SportShift in the original Vanquish, it was always advised that you engage neutral as you would if you were driving a manual car. At lights, for example, I would not normally hold in the clutch pedal for more that 5-10 seconds before putting it in neutral. Same with the SportShift.
When engaging neutral in mine (SportShift III), I never near or notice a mechanical movement. That s not to say nothing happens. But remember the SportShift unit is just a manual gearbox with robotised shifting. So I suspect the clutch mechanism works identically apart from the fact it s the system engaging the clutch pedal, not your foot.
As I mainly drive manuals, I ll keep driving the SportShift as I would a manual.
As the OP states, it s completely underrated.
Thanks. In all the cars I've had with a manual gearbox, including my 2009 V8V (wonderful car), I always put the 'box in neutral (foot off the clutch pedal, so clutch is engaged and no pressure on the throwout bearing) if I'll be stopped for more than a few seconds. As you said, the original Vanquish advice was to engage N at a stop. When I first got my previous '05 Vanquish S, I did that. However, occasionally it would struggle to find 1st when I pulled the paddle, and sometimes it would then engage 2nd rather than 1st. Not a big deal, and a pull of the left paddle would then always engage 1st. However, when I learned (from an official AM document IIRC) that the clutch was actually disengaged (like pressing a clutch pedal to the floor) at rest -- whether in N or 1 -- I realized that being in N at rest wasn't helping the throwout bearing since it was still under load. So I stopped putting it in N while at rest. A little later, I had the gearbox set up properly by my dealer. The man who did the work confirmed that the clutch is disengaged while at rest in N and said there is no mechanical benefit to using N vs 1 while idling. He knew the cars very well but is no longer with the dealer, unfortunately.From the first SportShift in the original Vanquish, it was always advised that you engage neutral as you would if you were driving a manual car. At lights, for example, I would not normally hold in the clutch pedal for more that 5-10 seconds before putting it in neutral. Same with the SportShift.
When engaging neutral in mine (SportShift III), I never near or notice a mechanical movement. That s not to say nothing happens. But remember the SportShift unit is just a manual gearbox with robotised shifting. So I suspect the clutch mechanism works identically apart from the fact it s the system engaging the clutch pedal, not your foot.
As I mainly drive manuals, I ll keep driving the SportShift as I would a manual.
As the OP states, it s completely underrated.
So, Sportshift III... At every engine start, it does a clutch learn, and you can see the illuminated LED on the N button for a few seconds as it does this. While it's doing the learn it is engaging the clutch so it can find the bite point. When it’s done, the driver then selects 1st or Reverse, applies some throttle, the clutch engages and off you go. My guess is that, when the learn is done, it disengages the clutch while still in N (could be wrong, but it obviously disengages the clutch before the 'box actually selects 1st or reverse gear). SS III (and SS II, but neither SS I nor the Vanquish, I think) will also do a clutch learn if the clutch reaches 5 certain temperature thresholds. If this happens, when you come to a stop and the 'box is in 1st gear, the car will select N automatically (you'll see N in the gear indicator), and the LED in the N button will blink while it does the learn. It takes a few seconds and, when it's done, it automatically goes back into 1st gear. If you step on the gas before the learn is finished, it cancels the learn (I‘m not sure if it automatically re-engages 1st).
My thoughts (so far anyway): I think SS III (as well as SS I and II) disengages the clutch (like keeping a clutch pedal depressed) in N while at rest. If this is correct, then there is no difference to the throwout bearing whether the ‘box is in 1 or N while idling at rest.
If my understanding of how it works is wrong, someone please straighten me out!
nickv12, I sent you a PM – thanks!
nickv12 said:
Have you got access to the official SportShift driving guide Aston Martin published? (For the later SportShift II and III cars.)
Unfortunately the Sportshift Driving Guide does not address the question that has been asked here. Astonishing, given the detailed account of all other aspects of using Sportshift that these guides provide.nickv12 said:
So I suspect the clutch mechanism works identically apart from the fact it s the system engaging the clutch pedal, not your foot. As I mainly drive manuals, I ll keep driving the SportShift as I would a manual.
That is very much the question. IF the VH-generation "Sportshift" systems follow the same mechanical principles as the original V12 Vanquish "ASM" then in fact the clutch mechanism does not work like a manual gearbox human operator with mechanical sympathy. The question had been discussed before here:https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Clutch "engaged" translates - to my very limited knowledge of your language - to clutch closed as opposed to "clutch pedal pressed" as you said. When you turn the engine off, Sportshift will automatically select first gear (unless told otherwise). There is no reason to believe that after having selected first gear the clutch will not close ("engage") again. Would be madness not to, wouldn´t it.
If you selected "real" Neutral (= pulling both paddles twice), the clutch behaviour would be no different, I think. Admittedly I have no proof for that.
If you selected "real" Neutral (= pulling both paddles twice), the clutch behaviour would be no different, I think. Admittedly I have no proof for that.
kevin_cambs_uk said:
So I am no expert at all
But when I put it in the garage and select neutral and turn the engine off the clutch is still engaged , like the clutch pedal is still pressed or does something else happen that relieves this stress on the thrust bearing?
Thanks
Kev
Hi Kev,But when I put it in the garage and select neutral and turn the engine off the clutch is still engaged , like the clutch pedal is still pressed or does something else happen that relieves this stress on the thrust bearing?
Thanks
Kev
No, when you select neutral and "key off" your V8V it selects a gear (1st or R, depending) and lets the clutch out (equivalent of taking your foot off the clutch pedal). This is why you can't push it when it's not running, even if you take off the handbrake - the car is in gear. It does this to imitate the "Park" function of a normal automatic transmission. When you insert the key to start it, before it will crank it disengages the clutch (puts its hydraulic foot on the clutch pedal
) and selects neutralHello LTP
Thanks for that mate, one thing I have noticed is that if I am in the garage, press the neutral button and it then beeeps 3 times saying apply the handbrake
If I remove the ecu before the beeps stop it stays in neutral and the car starts to roll back
If I remove the key after the beeps have ended it engages gear and does not roll
I have done this twice and it was not a fluke but maybe particular to my car
Kev
Thanks for that mate, one thing I have noticed is that if I am in the garage, press the neutral button and it then beeeps 3 times saying apply the handbrake
If I remove the ecu before the beeps stop it stays in neutral and the car starts to roll back
If I remove the key after the beeps have ended it engages gear and does not roll
I have done this twice and it was not a fluke but maybe particular to my car
Kev
kevin_cambs_uk said:
Hello LTP
Thanks for that mate, one thing I have noticed is that if I am in the garage, press the neutral button and it then beeeps 3 times saying apply the handbrake
If I remove the ecu before the beeps stop it stays in neutral and the car starts to roll back
If I remove the key after the beeps have ended it engages gear and does not roll
I have done this twice and it was not a fluke but maybe particular to my car
Kev
Interesting. I'll have to try that. I never use neutral, just reverse in and key off - no handbrake, as my garage is flat and the car won't roll, plus I don't want it sticking on. Allegedly, the only way to get a SSII or SSIII genuinely in neutral with the ignition off so you can push it about is to "double pull" the paddles before "key off", which is when you then get all sorts of warnings about the dire consequences if you don't then apply the handbrakeThanks for that mate, one thing I have noticed is that if I am in the garage, press the neutral button and it then beeeps 3 times saying apply the handbrake
If I remove the ecu before the beeps stop it stays in neutral and the car starts to roll back
If I remove the key after the beeps have ended it engages gear and does not roll
I have done this twice and it was not a fluke but maybe particular to my car
Kev
Emilio, many thanks for the link to the Vanquish thread -- that was very informative.
Thanks to everyone who commented here. It seems the answer to my initial question is that the clutch is open/disengaged at rest when in N (and, of course, when in 1st), so there is no difference to throwout bearing wear whether in N or 1.
Thanks to EVR for sending the Sportshift Driving Guide (I previously posted that I PM'd nickv12, but it was in fact EVR). Question: Is there a Sportshift Driving Guide that specifically covers SS III? The one I now have, thanks to EVR, is for the V8, so it covers SS I and II, but not III. Confusingly, the Owner's Guide for my 2015 V12VS discusses SS II -- not III, which is odd since the V12VS never had SS II. Is this merely a typo (repeated throughout the book) or is there an updated version? I understand that, operationally, they're almost identical, but I'd like to have "right" Guide if there is one.
New question: Does anyone know the minimum RPM at which the SS III 'box fully engages the clutch when moving off from rest? It seems to be around 1000 RPM. As I recall, in my Vanquish S it was 1300 -- below that, there would be at least some clutch slip.
Thanks to everyone who commented here. It seems the answer to my initial question is that the clutch is open/disengaged at rest when in N (and, of course, when in 1st), so there is no difference to throwout bearing wear whether in N or 1.
Thanks to EVR for sending the Sportshift Driving Guide (I previously posted that I PM'd nickv12, but it was in fact EVR). Question: Is there a Sportshift Driving Guide that specifically covers SS III? The one I now have, thanks to EVR, is for the V8, so it covers SS I and II, but not III. Confusingly, the Owner's Guide for my 2015 V12VS discusses SS II -- not III, which is odd since the V12VS never had SS II. Is this merely a typo (repeated throughout the book) or is there an updated version? I understand that, operationally, they're almost identical, but I'd like to have "right" Guide if there is one.
New question: Does anyone know the minimum RPM at which the SS III 'box fully engages the clutch when moving off from rest? It seems to be around 1000 RPM. As I recall, in my Vanquish S it was 1300 -- below that, there would be at least some clutch slip.
Edited by Speedraser on Wednesday 28th January 18:34
Speedraser said:
Thanks. In all the cars I've had with a manual gearbox, including my 2009 V8V (wonderful car), I always put the 'box in neutral (foot off the clutch pedal, so clutch is engaged and no pressure on the throwout bearing) if I'll be stopped for more than a few seconds. As you said, the original Vanquish advice was to engage N at a stop. When I first got my previous '05 Vanquish S, I did that. However, occasionally it would struggle to find 1st when I pulled the paddle, and sometimes it would then engage 2nd rather than 1st. Not a big deal, and a pull of the left paddle would then always engage 1st. However, when I learned (from an official AM document IIRC) that the clutch was actually disengaged (like pressing a clutch pedal to the floor) at rest -- whether in N or 1 -- I realized that being in N at rest wasn't helping the throwout bearing since it was still under load. So I stopped putting it in N while at rest. A little later, I had the gearbox set up properly by my dealer. The man who did the work confirmed that the clutch is disengaged while at rest in N and said there is no mechanical benefit to using N vs 1 while idling. He knew the cars very well but is no longer with the dealer, unfortunately.
So, Sportshift III... At every engine start, it does a clutch learn, and you can see the illuminated LED on the N button for a few seconds as it does this. While it's doing the learn it is engaging the clutch so it can find the bite point. When it s done, the driver then selects 1st or Reverse, applies some throttle, the clutch engages and off you go. My guess is that, when the learn is done, it disengages the clutch while still in N (could be wrong, but it obviously disengages the clutch before the 'box actually selects 1st or reverse gear). SS III (and SS II, but neither SS I nor the Vanquish, I think) will also do a clutch learn if the clutch reaches 5 certain temperature thresholds. If this happens, when you come to a stop and the 'box is in 1st gear, the car will select N automatically (you'll see N in the gear indicator), and the LED in the N button will blink while it does the learn. It takes a few seconds and, when it's done, it automatically goes back into 1st gear. If you step on the gas before the learn is finished, it cancels the learn (I m not sure if it automatically re-engages 1st).
My thoughts (so far anyway): I think SS III (as well as SS I and II) disengages the clutch (like keeping a clutch pedal depressed) in N while at rest. If this is correct, then there is no difference to the throwout bearing whether the box is in 1 or N while idling at rest.
If my understanding of how it works is wrong, someone please straighten me out!
nickv12, I sent you a PM thanks!
I can't really argue what you're writing. I simply don't know for certain.So, Sportshift III... At every engine start, it does a clutch learn, and you can see the illuminated LED on the N button for a few seconds as it does this. While it's doing the learn it is engaging the clutch so it can find the bite point. When it s done, the driver then selects 1st or Reverse, applies some throttle, the clutch engages and off you go. My guess is that, when the learn is done, it disengages the clutch while still in N (could be wrong, but it obviously disengages the clutch before the 'box actually selects 1st or reverse gear). SS III (and SS II, but neither SS I nor the Vanquish, I think) will also do a clutch learn if the clutch reaches 5 certain temperature thresholds. If this happens, when you come to a stop and the 'box is in 1st gear, the car will select N automatically (you'll see N in the gear indicator), and the LED in the N button will blink while it does the learn. It takes a few seconds and, when it's done, it automatically goes back into 1st gear. If you step on the gas before the learn is finished, it cancels the learn (I m not sure if it automatically re-engages 1st).
My thoughts (so far anyway): I think SS III (as well as SS I and II) disengages the clutch (like keeping a clutch pedal depressed) in N while at rest. If this is correct, then there is no difference to the throwout bearing whether the box is in 1 or N while idling at rest.
If my understanding of how it works is wrong, someone please straighten me out!
nickv12, I sent you a PM thanks!
But has there ever been reported issues with the mechanism apart from the ASM pipes? (Which is a completely separate issue from this discussion.)
BTW, Speedraser - not sure you meant you DM'd somebody else? I haven't received a DM.
Guy Jenner, the CEO of HWM Aston Martin Walton-on-Thames, published this blog post:
https://www.hwmastonmartin.co.uk/blog/v8-vantage-s...
This is based of the following document, with a few additional notes. (Therefore, no point in distributing the PDF, as the above web page has all the same information.)
But to quote a couple of relevant sections...
V12 VANTAGE S SPORTSHIFT III
DRIVING GUIDE
LG/GE/18/09/2013 V1
Hill Start Assist
If the wait is going to be for a reasonable period of time (e.g. level crossing, road works etc) consider applying the hand-brake and selecting neutral. To move off, apply the foot-brake, select first gear (or D) and release the hand-brake. As the foot-brake is released, the driver has approximately two seconds to apply the throttle.
Starting the engine
When starting the engine from cold, it is beneficial to allow it to idle in neutral for a short period of time before selecting a gear.
The TCU actually closes the clutch whilst the car is in neutral and senses when the propshaft starts to turn and then re-opens it. This allows the system to compensate for any clutch wear.
Another consideration is that I can confirm that in the SportShift dealer handover recommendations, they are told to explain and where applicable demonstrate:
Recommend to put car in neutral when at stand still for a long period of time (waiting long in front of traffic light or in major traffic jam).
The only trouble is that I don't know the date of this recommendation apart from it being after the release of the 4.7 V8. But this could still be a SportShift I recommendation and not relevant to SS II and SS III.
My only conflict on this is that another HWM blog post, this time for SS I, does not state this need:
https://www.hwmastonmartin.co.uk/blog/v8-vantage-s...
Finally, it's probably well know now, but original AM development driver, Les Goble, sat alongside AM historian, Steve Waddingham, to create an interesting video showing the use of SportShift in the original Vanquish. The later SS II and III gearboxes seem to have been significantly developed on from then. However, Les does make this comment at the time stamp (6:15) in this YouTube Link:
https://youtu.be/jegx_WGwpPc?t=375
To quote the relevant words from Les:
In heavy traffic, if you're in second gear and the traffic slows down, don't be afraid to pick first gear. Because if you keep the car in second, the clutch will get to a point where it's starting to slip. Where if you self-select first gear, the clutch can remain clamped and therefore not causing any clutch slip and overheating.
Bottom line for me is that, as per a conventional manual, I'm going to put it into neutral when at stationary for more than 5 seconds.
https://www.hwmastonmartin.co.uk/blog/v8-vantage-s...
This is based of the following document, with a few additional notes. (Therefore, no point in distributing the PDF, as the above web page has all the same information.)
But to quote a couple of relevant sections...
V12 VANTAGE S SPORTSHIFT III
DRIVING GUIDE
LG/GE/18/09/2013 V1
Hill Start Assist
If the wait is going to be for a reasonable period of time (e.g. level crossing, road works etc) consider applying the hand-brake and selecting neutral. To move off, apply the foot-brake, select first gear (or D) and release the hand-brake. As the foot-brake is released, the driver has approximately two seconds to apply the throttle.
Starting the engine
When starting the engine from cold, it is beneficial to allow it to idle in neutral for a short period of time before selecting a gear.
The TCU actually closes the clutch whilst the car is in neutral and senses when the propshaft starts to turn and then re-opens it. This allows the system to compensate for any clutch wear.
Another consideration is that I can confirm that in the SportShift dealer handover recommendations, they are told to explain and where applicable demonstrate:
Recommend to put car in neutral when at stand still for a long period of time (waiting long in front of traffic light or in major traffic jam).
The only trouble is that I don't know the date of this recommendation apart from it being after the release of the 4.7 V8. But this could still be a SportShift I recommendation and not relevant to SS II and SS III.
My only conflict on this is that another HWM blog post, this time for SS I, does not state this need:
https://www.hwmastonmartin.co.uk/blog/v8-vantage-s...
Finally, it's probably well know now, but original AM development driver, Les Goble, sat alongside AM historian, Steve Waddingham, to create an interesting video showing the use of SportShift in the original Vanquish. The later SS II and III gearboxes seem to have been significantly developed on from then. However, Les does make this comment at the time stamp (6:15) in this YouTube Link:
https://youtu.be/jegx_WGwpPc?t=375
To quote the relevant words from Les:
In heavy traffic, if you're in second gear and the traffic slows down, don't be afraid to pick first gear. Because if you keep the car in second, the clutch will get to a point where it's starting to slip. Where if you self-select first gear, the clutch can remain clamped and therefore not causing any clutch slip and overheating.
Bottom line for me is that, as per a conventional manual, I'm going to put it into neutral when at stationary for more than 5 seconds.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
The clutch is always open whether in gear or in neutral, just the amount of open differs. Selecting neutral at a light does nothing beneficial; the throw out bearing is always under load.
I thought you might turn up with a definitive answer -- thanks. Any chance you know the RPM below which the SS III clutch is not fully engaged, i.e., begins to disengage/slip?Nick, thanks for the HWM link. And the reason you didn't get a DM from me is because I messaged EVR -- apologies.
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