2007 WRX 2.5 upgrade: PPP or Aftermarket?

[cj.ok]

Hi,

I have a dilemma?

I'm just running in a new 2007 WRX 2.5 and will soon reach the 1,000 mile service (and hence completed the 'running in').

Whilst its in having its first service i plan to have a power upgrade and have 2 option really:

- PPP (Prodrive Performance Pack), fitted at a cost of £1,700 inc. VAT by Subaru dealer, giving around 270BHP and a healthy chunk of extra torque.

or

- An aftermarket upgrade such as Litchfield/Powerstation, giving 290BHP and similar torque for similar money.

I've no doubt the aftermarket option would be slightly quicker BUT the PPP is a Subaru approved thing and retains the 3yr warranty on all parts. You also get a Certificate from Prodrive confirming the pack is fitted, which (looking at used values) is a real bonus for resale as you can advertise it as a WRX PPP. Some people seem skeptical of aftermarket tuning however much we'd like to deny it!

Have i just answered my own question or should i follow my heart and go down the aftermarket route???

Any opinions, experiences etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Craig

[stevieb]

you will get better performace from powerstation, but no subaru warrenty..

the PPP will not give you the quoted figures, but will maintain you full subaru warrenty..

I have a 04 palte WRX and will be modding this to be 300Bhp 300lb/ft

[cj.ok]

stevieb said:

the PPP will not give you the quoted figures, but will maintain you full subaru warrenty..

What makes you say this? I know many people that rave about PPP and have always considered their figures to be somewhat conservative.

Theres a positive write-up in the EVO mags longterm section this month....

[Riknos]

I'd go for PPP, my brother has it on his. Can't fault it. And you keep the warranty. And as you said, resale it will help.

[stevieb]

cj.ok said:

stevieb said:

the PPP will not give you the quoted figures, but will maintain you full subaru warrenty..

What makes you say this? I know many people that rave about PPP and have always considered their figures to be somewhat conservative.

Theres a positive write-up in the EVO mags longterm section this month....

Have seen a lot of Dyno outputs from them from reading on Scoobynet and other sites. and i have not see a WRX PPP or a STI PPP meet the quoted power figures yet.

I would agree that the PPP does make the car more drivable and transforms the car but £ for £ a aftermarket remap give you more bang for you cash

[stevieb]

Riknos said:

I'd go for PPP, my brother has it on his. Can't fault it. And you keep the warranty. And as you said, resale it will help.

As for Resale value, it will make no odds on a WRX seen a few for sale at dealer that charge £1k premuium but the dealer would only give me £500 if i had PPP.

A ECUTEK remap will give the same results as the PPP

[cj.ok]

stevieb said:

Riknos said:

I'd go for PPP, my brother has it on his. Can't fault it. And you keep the warranty. And as you said, resale it will help.

As for Resale value, it will make no odds on a WRX seen a few for sale at dealer that charge £1k premuium but the dealer would only give me £500 if i had PPP.

A ECUTEK remap will give the same results as the PPP

How much is an ECUTEK remap and where are they based?

[stevieb]

cj.ok said:

stevieb said:

Riknos said:

I'd go for PPP, my brother has it on his. Can't fault it. And you keep the warranty. And as you said, resale it will help.

As for Resale value, it will make no odds on a WRX seen a few for sale at dealer that charge £1k premuium but the dealer would only give me £500 if i had PPP.

A ECUTEK remap will give the same results as the PPP

How much is an ECUTEK remap and where are they based?

an ECUTEK is the software that Powerstation will use to remap your car. a remap alone will cost £650 as you need to buy a license. But then you can choose your own exhaust and other bits and remap the car to suit the specific characteristics of each component.

[anonymous-user]

The choice is yours base don how much you value your waranty, you could go with the PPP now and once the waranty is out you can have it reflashed if you want a bit more performance.

The PPP is an EcuTek reflash, it's just Prodrives generic map they have created to be safe as a plug and play install. Subaru engines vary on performance from car to car, so to get the most out of your car the non PPP EcuTek reflash will be more performant if done properly, but you lose the waranty cover, not something i personally would want to do on a new car which can sometimes have bugs in them that need waranty work.

The PPP cars dont make quoted figures on a lot of rolling roads for a very good reason, Prodrive have mapped them so they dont give full ignition advance and boost unless the air filter inlet temperatures are below 41 degrees C, most rolling road setups mean that the inlet temp sensor heat soaks, so the prodrive mapping reduces the engine power on purpose in this environment. On the road or run on a set of rollers that are properly cooled they do produce the figures quoted.

[stevieb]

johnfelstead said:

The PPP cars dont make quoted figures on a lot of rolling roads for a very good reason, Prodrive have mapped them so they dont give full ignition advance and boost unless the air filter inlet temperatures are below 41 degrees C, most rolling road setups mean that the inlet temp sensor heat soaks, so the prodrive mapping reduces the engine power on purpose in this environment. On the road or run on a set of rollers that are properly cooled they do produce the figures quoted.

I have not seen a PPP Car get the figures stated. Either on a decent rolling Road.. Powerstation have a good forcefed fan to get inlet temps down and on most occarions they are below 41 degree C.

As a seperate issue an on the road Dyno Test using the ECUtek Deltadash dyno they still dont make the quoted figures. (Vixpy where are you, you do a lot of work for GRD)

But on the opther points both the standard MAP and the PPP Map have such a high tolerance levels, to preserve the engine/drivetrain.

But it is a balance of if you want the warrenty or not at the end of the day. But a ECUTEK remap is not detectable to subaru diagnostic equipment. But if you did have a engine blow up they would probably send the ECU to prodrive for a check before paying for the work.

[anonymous-user]

I've seen them make the figures. Amazingly, so have Prodrive. It's inlet temp at the MAF sensor, not charge temp at the intercooler, the fans at most good RR setups dont cool the inlet, just the radiator and intercooler.

It's very easy to see if an ECU has been reflashed if you have the correct EcuTek tools.

Edited by johnfelstead on Friday 20th April 22:25

[scoobiewrx]

I agree with John.... Up until 2006 you could download the PPP map from the ECU using a number of non-ecutek tools however, now they protect their maps by making them non-downloadable unless you have ecutek software and correct ODBII lead. I would reccommend you go for the Prodrive purely because of the warranty, but for the money they will give you a new exhaust system, high flow panel air filter and uprated fuel pump to make sure it all does as is intended. I wouldn't go for a non-aurothised remap until after the warranty has run out.

If anything is going to happen to the engine it will probably let go in the first 3 years in which case the warranty will take care of fixing it. As much as i enjoy mapping my own car, if i had a new Scooby and i wanted a map it would have to be the Prodrive one until the warranty ran out. Only after then would i go hell for leather and get the full 300 - 320bhp map. You'll already have the right exhaust,air filter and uprated fuel pump from the Prodrive upgrade so it will work out much cheaper than starting from scratch.

£550+vat for the stage2/2.5 map or you can be naughty and have a go yourself and risk discovering your own 'BIG BANG' theory

[cj.ok]

Thanks for all the advice guys.... i've got the next 1,000 miles (running in) to give it some serious thought!

Has anyone had the PPP upgrade on a 2.5 and did it make a 'noticeable' difference??? I recently had my SMART roadster increased from 80 to 110BHP and the difference was amazing....... However i once went from 343bhp to around 380bhp on an M3 and struggled to really notice the difference. I suppose its all about the delivery etc and the SMART's % increase was much greater. What i'm really trying to ask is - Will it be worth £1700???

Will it sound much better too? Does the PPP include a full CAT back system or just the back box?

[stevieb]

cj.ok said:

Thanks for all the advice guys.... i've got the next 1,000 miles (running in) to give it some serious thought!

Has anyone had the PPP upgrade on a 2.5 and did it make a 'noticeable' difference??? I recently had my SMART roadster increased from 80 to 110BHP and the difference was amazing....... However i once went from 343bhp to around 380bhp on an M3 and struggled to really notice the difference. I suppose its all about the delivery etc and the SMART's % increase was much greater. What i'm really trying to ask is - Will it be worth £1700???

Will it sound much better too? Does the PPP include a full CAT back system or just the back box?

Prodrive Sports CAT, Centre CAT replacement Pipe and a New Backbox and the ECU remaped.

Steve

[john57]

I went for the PPP option with my MY05 2.0 WRX. I was really happy - I kept my warranty and got a healthy power increase ....

I never put it on a rolling road but the difference was very much noticeable and what I expected. I have had numerous chipped turbo's in the past that had been more radical in performance gains but I had various problems with them so liked the idea of a 'slightly' more conservative remap.

The PPP certainly does respond to temperature changes more than I expected - I know turbo's are cars that like nice cool air but this remap seemed even more so! It could really fly in the cool clean air or feel almost unchipped in sometimes only slightly warmer conditions. I took that to be down totally to the way the map is set up. The car had no faults and went really well but would give noticeably lower boost levels in warm / hot air.

FWIW I don't have my Scooby any more - I sold it for an S2000 .... but I do not regret getting the car PPP'd when I had it one bit. It made the car behave like I felt it should have done from new .....it was a much better overall car to drive - much quicker and more fun for much less effort!

Edited by john57 on Saturday 21st April 17:40

[vixpy1]

The remapped 2.5 Sti's are awesome

Over 400 ftlb's

[cj.ok]

john57 said:

I went for the PPP option with my MY05 2.0 WRX. I was really happy - I kept my warranty and got a healthy power increase ....

I never put it on a rolling road but the difference was very much noticeable and what I expected. I have had numerous chipped turbo's in the past that had been more radical in performance gains but I had various problems with them so liked the idea of a 'slightly' more conservative remap.

The PPP certainly does respond to temperature changes more than I expected - I know turbo's are cars that like nice cool air but this remap seemed even more so! It could really fly in the cool clean air or feel almost unchipped in sometimes only slightly warmer conditions. I took that to be down totally to the way the map is set up. The car had no faults and went really well but would give noticeably lower boost levels in warm / hot air.

FWIW I don't have my Scooby any more - I sold it for an S2000 .... but I do not regret getting the car PPP'd when I had it one bit. It made the car behave like I felt it should have done from new .....it was a much better overall car to drive - much quicker and more fun for much less effort!

Edited by john57 on Saturday 21st April 17:40

Thanks for taking the time to write a proper review, i really appreciate it.... sound like PPP could be a definate option!

[stevieb]

cj.ok said:

john57 said:

I went for the PPP option with my MY05 2.0 WRX. I was really happy - I kept my warranty and got a healthy power increase ....

I never put it on a rolling road but the difference was very much noticeable and what I expected. I have had numerous chipped turbo's in the past that had been more radical in performance gains but I had various problems with them so liked the idea of a 'slightly' more conservative remap.

The PPP certainly does respond to temperature changes more than I expected - I know turbo's are cars that like nice cool air but this remap seemed even more so! It could really fly in the cool clean air or feel almost unchipped in sometimes only slightly warmer conditions. I took that to be down totally to the way the map is set up. The car had no faults and went really well but would give noticeably lower boost levels in warm / hot air.

FWIW I don't have my Scooby any more - I sold it for an S2000 .... but I do not regret getting the car PPP'd when I had it one bit. It made the car behave like I felt it should have done from new .....it was a much better overall car to drive - much quicker and more fun for much less effort!

Edited by john57 on Saturday 21st April 17:40

Thanks for taking the time to write a proper review, i really appreciate it.... sound like PPP could be a definate option!

I would agree with what John said as it does make the car a lot more responsive and tranforms the cars drivability. But my car has just turned 3 years old and the PPP is just not cost effective for me.

But on another note i would check with your insurer as the big companies just say no we dont cover modified cars. then your only answer is a specialist boker such as A-Plan.

My insurer would not cover me for the PPP as they did not understand what it done to the car, But it only cost me £10 more per annum with a specialist.

Steve

[MilnerR]

I had to wait for my PPP to be fitted as the car I got was an 07 model and apparently the engine management is slightly different (either that or i was getting a dose of bullshit from Chris Neil). Anyway, I ran the car in on the standard 277bhp and then had the PPP fitted and it did make a difference (not 1800 quids worth of difference though). The car now picks up in all gears and feels a lot sharper, the exhaust is much better than the original and gives a nice (but no too intrusive) burble; and of course my warranty is all in one piece. As soon as the 3 years is up then it'll be a proper remap, new clutch and 350bhp+ with any luck.

[scoobiewrx]

I'm not surprised you paid that much. If you got a similar upgrade elsewhere you are definately looking at £500 less, and thats with the exhaust (including decat uppipe), panel filter etc...

You are of course paying the extra for the name 'PRODRIVE' but i refuse to beileve they are the only ones around with the most supreme Scooby know-how.

Even companies like TSL and Powerstation won't charge that much and they are not cheap, however you will get better results and they truly know their stuff.