Random scooby questions
Discussion
Hi,
Thinking about getting a lsightly more practical car to compliment my eunos and wondered about an imprezza. It'd probably be the first generation Turbo 2000 or maybe a WRX of the same era. They appeal because they're quick, drive the correct set of wheels (plus the fronts!) and have enough space to stick a few mountain bikes in, but I don't actually know a huge ammount about them beyond that.....
Saloon or estate? - is the estate actually any bigger than the saloon (in length/width) or is it just taller? Does it weigh any more? Would quite like the extra capacity and q-car status if they're otherwise equal. Thing is, I spend most of my time in a crowded part of north London and really either is a little bigger than 90% of the parking spaces! Speaking of which.....
Insurance. Any idea roughly how much a 25 year old in a reasonably nice, but suburban part of the south east will pay on a turbo 2000?
Handling. What are they actually like to drive? I know they're very quick point to point, but are they a bit too clinical?
Economy. I know this isn't a strong point, but I'm used to thristy cars. Question is how bad - mid 20's mpg? less? More importantly, what's the tank range - do a few long motorway trips and don't want to be stopping continuously?
Practicality - I presume the rear seats fold in both models? Bike storage is key
Thinking about getting a lsightly more practical car to compliment my eunos and wondered about an imprezza. It'd probably be the first generation Turbo 2000 or maybe a WRX of the same era. They appeal because they're quick, drive the correct set of wheels (plus the fronts!) and have enough space to stick a few mountain bikes in, but I don't actually know a huge ammount about them beyond that.....
Saloon or estate? - is the estate actually any bigger than the saloon (in length/width) or is it just taller? Does it weigh any more? Would quite like the extra capacity and q-car status if they're otherwise equal. Thing is, I spend most of my time in a crowded part of north London and really either is a little bigger than 90% of the parking spaces! Speaking of which.....
Insurance. Any idea roughly how much a 25 year old in a reasonably nice, but suburban part of the south east will pay on a turbo 2000?
Handling. What are they actually like to drive? I know they're very quick point to point, but are they a bit too clinical?
Economy. I know this isn't a strong point, but I'm used to thristy cars. Question is how bad - mid 20's mpg? less? More importantly, what's the tank range - do a few long motorway trips and don't want to be stopping continuously?
Practicality - I presume the rear seats fold in both models? Bike storage is key
If you want to carry bikes I reckon you will need the wagon. the extra roof length and bars means you can stick them up there if required.
The estate floor pan is identical it is only the rear bodywork that is different. They are slightly heavier and performance is blunted on average by about 0.1s on the 0-60 dash for most models. There are those that would argue that they are also stiffer and the rearward weight increase makes them better handling. Parking should not be a problem, they are not big cars, smaller than a Mondeo.
Insurance can be a swine. I'd guess you'd be over £500. There is a thread going about Impreza insurance if you need some contacts.
MPG is obviously very right foot dependent. Easy A road cruising could see you just about get 30mpg. Track work gets one down to single figures! I can do Bucks to the Lake district on a tank so range is OK.
The handling is very good. A lot of people spout a lot of bollox about scoob handling. It is not the same as a classic RWD set-up and you have to adjust your style but that does not mean it's uninvolving. They are easy to drive quickly but just as challenging to drive fast and when it goes wrong you will likely be travelling at some considerable speed/angle. Plenty of challenge there.
Wagon seats fold down flat (60/40 split) I don't know what the arrangement is with the 4 door.
The estate floor pan is identical it is only the rear bodywork that is different. They are slightly heavier and performance is blunted on average by about 0.1s on the 0-60 dash for most models. There are those that would argue that they are also stiffer and the rearward weight increase makes them better handling. Parking should not be a problem, they are not big cars, smaller than a Mondeo.
Insurance can be a swine. I'd guess you'd be over £500. There is a thread going about Impreza insurance if you need some contacts.
MPG is obviously very right foot dependent. Easy A road cruising could see you just about get 30mpg. Track work gets one down to single figures! I can do Bucks to the Lake district on a tank so range is OK.
The handling is very good. A lot of people spout a lot of bollox about scoob handling. It is not the same as a classic RWD set-up and you have to adjust your style but that does not mean it's uninvolving. They are easy to drive quickly but just as challenging to drive fast and when it goes wrong you will likely be travelling at some considerable speed/angle. Plenty of challenge there.
Wagon seats fold down flat (60/40 split) I don't know what the arrangement is with the 4 door.
Edited by rustybin on Friday 18th May 13:30
They are great cars, a total bargain.
If you want to get bikes in it, the estate makes most sense. My early WRX (import) doesn't allow the rear seats to fold down. Not sure if the UK ones are the same - I believe you CAN fold the UK model seats down.
There is little difference between them - the earlier estates did have slightly less power than the saloons if I remember correctly, and have a little extra weight. But the extra weight at the back, which is said (by some people) to improve the handling. The estate would definitely have more q-car status.
Insurance, on a UK model should be around £600ish, on an import probably more like £800.
Handling... they are nice to drive out of the box, but a LOT nicer if you do some modifications. Powerstation removed the bump steer from mine and set up the geometry (also fitted an anti-lift kit), which improved things no end. You can spend anything from £100 (for just the bump steer mod and geometry - worth every penny) up to the sky's the limit for adjustable leda kits. Spending a little here will give you a lot.
Economy... mid 20's when driven reasonably conservatively with some fun sessions. I get around 250-300 miles from my mildly modified (ECU, exhaust) WRX for about £50 of optimax. That's driven on a 50/50 mix of country roads and A roads.
As far as mods go (not sure if that's your thing), a filter, exhaust and ECU will give a huge whack of torque, improved drivability and slightly improved fuel economy. Brakes are not great on the early models (2-pots), but can be upgraded (or just buy a more recent model with the 4 pots). I mentioned suspension mods earlier.
If you want to get bikes in it, the estate makes most sense. My early WRX (import) doesn't allow the rear seats to fold down. Not sure if the UK ones are the same - I believe you CAN fold the UK model seats down.
There is little difference between them - the earlier estates did have slightly less power than the saloons if I remember correctly, and have a little extra weight. But the extra weight at the back, which is said (by some people) to improve the handling. The estate would definitely have more q-car status.
Insurance, on a UK model should be around £600ish, on an import probably more like £800.
Handling... they are nice to drive out of the box, but a LOT nicer if you do some modifications. Powerstation removed the bump steer from mine and set up the geometry (also fitted an anti-lift kit), which improved things no end. You can spend anything from £100 (for just the bump steer mod and geometry - worth every penny) up to the sky's the limit for adjustable leda kits. Spending a little here will give you a lot.
Economy... mid 20's when driven reasonably conservatively with some fun sessions. I get around 250-300 miles from my mildly modified (ECU, exhaust) WRX for about £50 of optimax. That's driven on a 50/50 mix of country roads and A roads.
As far as mods go (not sure if that's your thing), a filter, exhaust and ECU will give a huge whack of torque, improved drivability and slightly improved fuel economy. Brakes are not great on the early models (2-pots), but can be upgraded (or just buy a more recent model with the 4 pots). I mentioned suspension mods earlier.
Edited by matt28 on Friday 18th May 14:12
I looked into insurance before and the quotes were all into four figures (a couple of them started with a '3'!!) so expect £600 is optimistic, but I'll speak to some specialists if I get serious about the idea.
Haven't had a good look at the interior, but would expect a saloon will still swallow a couple of bikes with the wheels removed (a 106 does with room for a few days worth of kit left over!) That said the estate can only be better (loading wise) and I actually rather like the look of the WRX estates!
Haven't had a good look at the interior, but would expect a saloon will still swallow a couple of bikes with the wheels removed (a 106 does with room for a few days worth of kit left over!) That said the estate can only be better (loading wise) and I actually rather like the look of the WRX estates!
chris71 said:
I looked into insurance before and the quotes were all into four figures (a couple of them started with a '3'!!) so expect £600 is optimistic, but I'll speak to some specialists if I get serious about the idea.
The early ones only had Cat 2 alarms so worth checking what discount you can get for a cat 1 alram and/or tracker. You may also need to steer clear of anything modified.
chris71 said:
Thinking about getting a lsightly more practical car to compliment my eunos and wondered about an imprezza.
Its "Impreza"
chris71 said:
Insurance. Any idea roughly how much a 25 year old in a reasonably nice, but suburban part of the south east will pay on a turbo 2000?
I was 24 with 3 years NCB when I had my '02 WRX. I live in the decent part of Birmingham (really close to the sign that says "You're are now leaving Birmingham" ) and was paying approx one arm and one leg. About £1400 i think, def more than I pay for the S2k.
chris71 said:
Handling. What are they actually like to drive? I know they're very quick point to point, but are they a bit too clinical?
I found it quite dull and uninvolving. I never went out and drove it just for the sake of driving. (Which I have done with ever other car, except the Scoob and the Rover). Standard WRX wasnt that fast either.
chris71 said:
Economy. I know this isn't a strong point, but I'm used to thristy cars. Question is how bad - mid 20's mpg? less? More importantly, what's the tank range - do a few long motorway trips and don't want to be stopping continuously?
Mid 20's. IIRC I was getting just under 300 to a tank.
chris71 said:
Practicality - I presume the rear seats fold in both models? Bike storage is key
Cant remember!
Edited by MrFlibbles on Friday 18th May 18:33
I kinda ended up with an Impreza UK turbo wagon as an exchange deal about 5 years ago and still have it. The performance, 4wd and all the room in the back for bikes/surfboards/camping gear/just stuff is what attracted me to it.
The practicality is great and I really think i'll stick with sport wagons for a while. I had read that the wagon is exactly the same length as the saloon too, so no size problem. The performance was pretty good, 208 hp for the UK version lotsa power for overtaking on the motorway but not that quick off the mark, I'd really like to have a go in a WRX or STi. The handling was a big let down especially the amount of body roll, nose diving under braking, and just general lack of feel of what was going on. I put it down to its age and 100,000 miles that it had covered.
Recently I have replaced the springs, shocks, wheels and tyres and I am blown away by the improvement in handling, it is a totally different car now and so good that I would even be tempted to take to a track day as it is so much fun to drive.
After 5 years I can recommend owning a scoob, although a busted gearbox
gave me some doubts. I did eventually recover from that slight rough patch and have had no other problems.
Thinking of more mods now
The practicality is great and I really think i'll stick with sport wagons for a while. I had read that the wagon is exactly the same length as the saloon too, so no size problem. The performance was pretty good, 208 hp for the UK version lotsa power for overtaking on the motorway but not that quick off the mark, I'd really like to have a go in a WRX or STi. The handling was a big let down especially the amount of body roll, nose diving under braking, and just general lack of feel of what was going on. I put it down to its age and 100,000 miles that it had covered.
Recently I have replaced the springs, shocks, wheels and tyres and I am blown away by the improvement in handling, it is a totally different car now and so good that I would even be tempted to take to a track day as it is so much fun to drive.
After 5 years I can recommend owning a scoob, although a busted gearbox
gave me some doubts. I did eventually recover from that slight rough patch and have had no other problems. Thinking of more mods now
I own an 02 WRX Sportwagon and straight out of the box it is a great car with awesome handling and 215bhp. Anyone that tells you it's dull or uninspiring clearly didn't drive it quickly enough because the faster you drive it the better it gets. I have made a few small mods to tighten up the handling (whiteline and powerflex drop links back and front, 225/45/17 Toyo Tyres), do my own mapping and fitted a high flow flat panel filter and snorkus mod + AP racing clutch kit and brake rotors/pads upgrade. The few mods i have done are really starting to transform the car from a bloody good car to and even bloody better one.
Now that i have changed the back box it sounds loverrrrly, but the rest of the exhaust is yet to be installed and it will go even better + give me another 20-30bhp on top of what i have it up to currently!! It takes me up to Scotland and back several times a year without complaint. I drove it at Santa Pod when i first bought it and it was bog standard, and still put in a 14.8s qtr mile (i have the slips to prove it), with a 0-60 of 5,9 secs. Not bad for a car that weighs in at 1470kg. Now it will do the qtr in 13.8secs and 0-60 is down to 5.3secs + it's better on petrol. I also drove the car at Bedford Autodrome when it was standard and i have to say it was a hoot!! Several Porsche drivers had a good eyeful of me in the rear view mirror on more than one occasion
Do yourself a favour and buy a good one. You won't regret it and in Sportwagon guise it really is a Q-car with loads of room. Go onnnnn, live a bit....you know you want one. BTW...both rear seats fold to give you shedloads of room, and it looks cool with a bike rack and 2 or 3 bikes on the back.
P.S. If you haven't driven one yet get yourself a test drive sorted, or come and see me and i'll take you out in mine. Just make sure you bring some spare undies and a plastic cover for the passenger seat.
Now that i have changed the back box it sounds loverrrrly, but the rest of the exhaust is yet to be installed and it will go even better + give me another 20-30bhp on top of what i have it up to currently!! It takes me up to Scotland and back several times a year without complaint. I drove it at Santa Pod when i first bought it and it was bog standard, and still put in a 14.8s qtr mile (i have the slips to prove it), with a 0-60 of 5,9 secs. Not bad for a car that weighs in at 1470kg. Now it will do the qtr in 13.8secs and 0-60 is down to 5.3secs + it's better on petrol. I also drove the car at Bedford Autodrome when it was standard and i have to say it was a hoot!! Several Porsche drivers had a good eyeful of me in the rear view mirror on more than one occasion
Do yourself a favour and buy a good one. You won't regret it and in Sportwagon guise it really is a Q-car with loads of room. Go onnnnn, live a bit....you know you want one.
BTW...both rear seats fold to give you shedloads of room, and it looks cool with a bike rack and 2 or 3 bikes on the back. P.S. If you haven't driven one yet get yourself a test drive sorted, or come and see me and i'll take you out in mine. Just make sure you bring some spare undies and a plastic cover for the passenger seat.
I'm biased, but I agree. My estate is 10 years old in a couple of months, although kind of like that favourite spade that's had 4 new handles and 2 new blades
Currently on engine #3
Suspension #3
Brake set-up #4
Full spec on my profile.
The car has done 10s of thousands of track miles and is just a total laugh the throw around.
It's now worth peanuts but it would cost a fortune to buy something faster point to point.
Currently on engine #3
Suspension #3
Brake set-up #4
Full spec on my profile.
The car has done 10s of thousands of track miles and is just a total laugh the throw around.
It's now worth peanuts but it would cost a fortune to buy something faster point to point.
Scoobs - Wonderful cars.
I agree with the post above that the standard WRX isn't *that* quick (it's all relative ofc) but disagree with the dull handling comment - they great fun to throw around or just to potter about in.
I'd choose one of the sportier models - look at STis or P1s etc. They're quicker and offer something a little more but you'll need to counter this against the load-lugging side of things.
Insurance for a 25 year old will be a pig I think. I'm 33 with full NCB and it was around 800 for me.
Re: the Reliant Scimitar question, I had one of these for years. Very different proposition to the scoob. A scimitar will teach you *everything* you need to know about drifting/rear end car control but don't be fooled into thinking this is a modern car. It'll need constant maintenance and upkeep (although this can be simple and inexpensive) and it's an "old world" car experience. Cold, noisy, smelly but brilliant. Oh and most modern family cars will be faster too. I often think about getting one as a toy for weekends. Advice is to go look at one and test drive it if you can. It'll be a marmite moment.
Insurance on a scimitar will be peanuts as you'll be able to do it on classic policies (look out for mileage limits though).
I agree with the post above that the standard WRX isn't *that* quick (it's all relative ofc) but disagree with the dull handling comment - they great fun to throw around or just to potter about in.
I'd choose one of the sportier models - look at STis or P1s etc. They're quicker and offer something a little more but you'll need to counter this against the load-lugging side of things.
Insurance for a 25 year old will be a pig I think. I'm 33 with full NCB and it was around 800 for me.
Re: the Reliant Scimitar question, I had one of these for years. Very different proposition to the scoob. A scimitar will teach you *everything* you need to know about drifting/rear end car control but don't be fooled into thinking this is a modern car. It'll need constant maintenance and upkeep (although this can be simple and inexpensive) and it's an "old world" car experience. Cold, noisy, smelly but brilliant. Oh and most modern family cars will be faster too. I often think about getting one as a toy for weekends. Advice is to go look at one and test drive it if you can. It'll be a marmite moment.
Insurance on a scimitar will be peanuts as you'll be able to do it on classic policies (look out for mileage limits though).
You can go out and buy cars that cost 2 or 3 times as much (ALFA/AUDI/BMW/JAG/LEXUS) etc..., that are regarded as 'performance saloons' but they aren't as quick as a standard WRX or handle as well out of the box. The WRX Sportwagon is a lot of car for the money and although they aren't the most stylish cars around and have very bland interiors you'll never buy one for looks, but you will purely for the way it goes and handles.
There isn't a lot between a WRX and an STi in terms of performance in standard trim so if you're on a budget and want something that is 90% of STi performance then go for the WRX Sportwagon. It's a great compromised and so practical.
There isn't a lot between a WRX and an STi in terms of performance in standard trim so if you're on a budget and want something that is 90% of STi performance then go for the WRX Sportwagon. It's a great compromised and so practical.
As they have all said above. Do it.
I have had both 5 and 4 door, and other than the shape they are identical. rear seats on 4 door fold down exactly the same as the five door, allowing long items such as DIY stuff into the boot. However, if you are carrying bikes, then go for the 5 door.
Out of the other cars you mention, the Impreza will have the most interior space, although it is not a BIG family estate.
I used to have a Scimitar, and I loved it, but the Impreza is faster, more fun, more relaible, cheaper to run etc.
I used to have a Eunos, and the Impreza compliments it very well.
I have had both 5 and 4 door, and other than the shape they are identical. rear seats on 4 door fold down exactly the same as the five door, allowing long items such as DIY stuff into the boot. However, if you are carrying bikes, then go for the 5 door.
Out of the other cars you mention, the Impreza will have the most interior space, although it is not a BIG family estate.
I used to have a Scimitar, and I loved it, but the Impreza is faster, more fun, more relaible, cheaper to run etc.
I used to have a Eunos, and the Impreza compliments it very well.
True. Fear whatever I pick up for sub £4k is likely to be a little tired and the insurance is a major headache - about a year ago (admittedly under 25 and with a years less NCB) I was quoted something like £3000 for a turbo 2000! I'm sure that could have been halved at the time by speaking to a specialist insurer, but the other suggestions would be halved again if not less.
Quite fancy taking up kayaking though and I'm a keen mountain biker, so a full estate would be useful and whereas things like the simitar or 944 are deceptively practical, they're still a long way off a full estate.
Quite fancy taking up kayaking though and I'm a keen mountain biker, so a full estate would be useful and whereas things like the simitar or 944 are deceptively practical, they're still a long way off a full estate.
I am another voter for a wagon.
I have a 4 door without folding rear seats and it would have been a problem at times if there was not already an estate in the household.
There are some good ones out there, you may have to search hard for them though.
Take a look on Scoobynet and SIDC to see what you can get.
I have a 4 door without folding rear seats and it would have been a problem at times if there was not already an estate in the household.
There are some good ones out there, you may have to search hard for them though.
Take a look on Scoobynet and SIDC to see what you can get.
If space is important you could also consider a Legacy wagon as another option - bigger(big enough to take a single bed with the seats folded down, I've also had 4 people and 4 bikes in mine without much trouble before) and a bit softer than the Impreza, but still a good AWD Subaru drivetrain, available with 260 or 280 bhp twin-turbo engines which haul pretty well as long as they've been looked after. (Or if you're a poor student like me you could go for a non-turbo version and save $$$ on fuel and insurance - mine is 2.0 NA 155 bhp, no rocketship but still goes ok for what it is). There is also one all-important principle to remember when buying Subarus (especially older ones) - dont buy an auto!
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 21st May 11:29
Impreza turbos tend to be owned by real enthusiasts or boy racers. The latter group will have probably added plenty of "tastful cosmetic mods" so those cars will be obvious.
All Imprezas have probably been driven hard for some or most of their life.
The key is to find one that has been cared for by an enthusiast.
Mine has 100K on the clock, and is nearly ten years old. However, it is showing no signs of previous abuse other than a few bits of trim starting to look tatty.
Condition is far more important than age or milage. You can be choosy, as there are plenty out there to choose from.
All Imprezas have probably been driven hard for some or most of their life.
The key is to find one that has been cared for by an enthusiast.
Mine has 100K on the clock, and is nearly ten years old. However, it is showing no signs of previous abuse other than a few bits of trim starting to look tatty.
Condition is far more important than age or milage. You can be choosy, as there are plenty out there to choose from.
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