Jap Car Advice

[al3x.kay]

Ok it would appear I am in a bit of a pickle...

I want to get back into Jap Cars, but have gotten stuck on what to buy, I want something with around 300bhp to start.

I have been looking at R33's 200sx's and Silvia's.
I like them all, Much prefer the skylines to be honest, but I think I would regret not getting a GT-R (I have alwaysa wanted one but cannot afford one at the moment).

So with around 4K to spend, which would you suggest, and before people start suggesting other cars, I have looked at everything already and narrowed it down to these three.

What are the benefits of each?

Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Ta in advance.

Alex

[Wadeski]

200SX and Syvlias are the same car?

and despite your plea, my answer for 4k is MR2 turbo, everytime.

[Monki]

For £4k the GTR would probably be a lemon so

Skyline R33 GTS-T

or

Silvia / S14 SR20DET

Both can be bought for around the £4k mark but I would not recommend going much lower than that as otherwise....well you know the saying, "you get what you pay for"

[al3x.kay]

Yeah that is why I had kind of ruled out the Skylines, as really I want a GTR and I know I cannot afford one at the moment.

I really don't like the look of the MR2, I know it is a really good car as far as driving is concenred, I just cannot get past the looks.

Ok so is the Silvia a different spec or something then?
What is the difference between say an 200sx s14a, and a silvia ?

I am more and more liking the sx, everytime I look at one.

if I was to buy a slightly modified one for 4k what would be the things to look out for? I have heard about the rust in the boot and side skirts. anything else?

Thanks for your help guys.

[300bhp/ton]

If I'm honest I've not looked at prices, but something inside of me just wouldn't let me spend £4k on a 200SX.

2 quesitons:

1. What is it about the GTR that you like particularly? Such as looks, engine, potential, AWD, etc.

2. What do you want from a car? As in how practical, running costs, number of seats, driving style, handling finesse or grip, pace or shear numbers.

[al3x.kay]

300bhp/ton said:

If I'm honest I've not looked at prices, but something inside of me just wouldn't let me spend £4k on a 200SX.

2 quesitons:

1. What is it about the GTR that you like particularly? Such as looks, engine, potential, AWD, etc.

2. What do you want from a car? As in how practical, running costs, number of seats, driving style, handling finesse or grip, pace or shear numbers.

Why would you not spend 4k on one?

The GTR hmm well, I think it comes from child hood to be honest, I love the way the R33 and R34 GTR look. I know that they are and can be very impressive machines, saying that I have never driven one. I do like the way an AWD car handles and feels.
Yes I would like to get into the Modding side of the car as well, I have always had a thing for Japanese cars full stop.

From the car, I need a daily. My commute is 9 miles so economy is not really too much of a worry. I do really need 4 seats, and I definately want 4wd or rwd.
As far as the power thing, I said 300bhp as it seems to be an easily acheivable number in these cars. although I have to say I am not that fussed, as I can go ahead and do that myself.

I hope that all makes sense

[sparkyhx]

you will get a good 200sx for 4k

Silvia is the Jap and Aussie name for the 200sx - basically the same - however there are some jap variants that we never saw - PS13, 180sx strawberry face etc etc - but don't get hung up on these.

get over to http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/index.php and mooch around

Obviously I am biased having owned one for 5 years.

Personally I'd go for an already modded one - this way you save a hell of a lot of money - however modding it yourself is fun and you learn a lot along the way.

[300bhp/ton]

al3x.kay said:

300bhp/ton said:

If I'm honest I've not looked at prices, but something inside of me just wouldn't let me spend £4k on a 200SX.

2 quesitons:

1. What is it about the GTR that you like particularly? Such as looks, engine, potential, AWD, etc.

2. What do you want from a car? As in how practical, running costs, number of seats, driving style, handling finesse or grip, pace or shear numbers.

Why would you not spend 4k on one?

I think its just me so don't worry to much

But about 6 years ago I had an s13 200SX turbo (J reg), very very nice. It was near mint, that's really the only way to describe it. I got it for £250 and sold it a year later for £1450.

£4k some 5-6 years on just seems a lot IMO, although I admit the s14 is newer (when did they stop making them??)

But as I said, I haven't looked at prices, so maybe this is just how much they are going for today.

al3x.kay said:

The GTR hmm well, I think it comes from child hood to be honest, I love the way the R33 and R34 GTR look. I know that they are and can be very impressive machines, saying that I have never driven one. I do like the way an AWD car handles and feels.
Yes I would like to get into the Modding side of the car as well, I have always had a thing for Japanese cars full stop.

From the car, I need a daily. My commute is 9 miles so economy is not really too much of a worry. I do really need 4 seats, and I definately want 4wd or rwd.
As far as the power thing, I said 300bhp as it seems to be an easily acheivable number in these cars. although I have to say I am not that fussed, as I can go ahead and do that myself.

I hope that all makes sense

I don't know the extent of modding, but in another thread in the Jap section some one describes a fair amount of work as "stage 1" with 260-280hp.

Are these 200SX's easy to get a real 300hp from?

Personally I think your best bet is to go and drive some cars and see what takes your fancy.

I'd also agree with looking for a nicely modded example, but you'll have to buy careful as modded ones can be a can of worms. But will save you forking out for exhaust, wheels and the like.

But I'd also say have a look at some other cars. I can understand about the GTR, personally I'd love an R32 GT-R. But it's not really likely to happen

But there are a lot of other interesting and fast cars within budget. But it depends if speed is the most important factor or not.

I know you said you didn't want to look at other cars. But all I can say is, recently I went and looked at a stunning Impreza WRX STI version IV. Ok it had about 75k on the clock and was a 1997 MY but it was mint, up for only £3500 before haggling, so well within budget. It was modded so looked and sounded great and in stock trim already made 300hp +

It had 4 seats and a boot and handled well. If you left it as it was it was a great car and probably 5 secs faster to 100mph than a stock s14 200SX.

But as I say, it all depends what you want.

Other Jap cars I think of worth looking at would be:

-Toyota Supra Turbo
-Nissan 300ZX turbo z31 or maybe z32
-Impreza WRX STI's (not WRX's)
-An early Evo
-Mitsubishi 3000 GTO
-Celica GT-Four

I also think there are other non Jap cars which would probably achieve what you want, e.g.:

-Being usable
-fast
-similar running costs
-different
-stand out from the crowd


Hope you find what you are after though and if a 200SX is the one - go get it!!

[sparkyhx]

200's were made up to 2000/2001 There are some 51 plate ones knocking around. However they are pretty rare compared with Scoobs etc - I have done journeys of thousands of miles and not seen a 200, where you will see 10,000 scoobs.
- If your thinking of a 300zx - open the bopnnet and look at the engine bay and tell me its not scary, unless you like taking out engines to do minor jobs.
- Mitsu 3000/GTO lardy and not that fast
- Supra great but for 4K?
- scoobs etc - great, but too common for me.

I like the rarity, coupled with reasomnably cheap to run, fix etc. Fairly easilly and cheaply modable compared with NA cars.
and lastly the best owners club bar none

============

the 'fair amount of work' you refer to is to do it properly - stick a £35 manual boost controller on it and you will see 260-280 bhp.

You can cross your fingers on the fuel pump and risk DET and hope it supplies the right amount of fuel to match the increase in boost - but really you are taking a big risk
Don't run colder plugs and risk DET - big risk
exhaust is not necessary, - it will be slower to boost
airfilter change/upgrade is not necessary - it will be slower to boost
FMIC not necessary - hot days only
Chipping it - not necessary
Boost guage not necessary except for setup - but you won't know if its spiking

Its very easy to get stage 1 power, but less easy to it properly. Stage 1 is BMW M3 performance terratory.

To see 300hp and you will need AFM, bigger injectors, maxing out the std turbo

Its a damn site easier doing it to one of these than an NA car £5k for ported and polished head etc - thats an extra 10hp thank you very much.

[al3x.kay]

300bhp/ton said:

But there are a lot of other interesting and fast cars within budget. But it depends if speed is the most important factor or not.

I know you said you didn't want to look at other cars. But all I can say is, recently I went and looked at a stunning Impreza WRX STI version IV. Ok it had about 75k on the clock and was a 1997 MY but it was mint, up for only £3500 before haggling, so well within budget. It was modded so looked and sounded great and in stock trim already made 300hp +

It had 4 seats and a boot and handled well. If you left it as it was it was a great car and probably 5 secs faster to 100mph than a stock s14 200SX.

But as I say, it all depends what you want.
I also think there are other non Jap cars which would probably achieve what you want, e.g.:

-Being usable
-fast
-similar running costs
-different
-stand out from the crowd


Hope you find what you are after though and if a 200SX is the one - go get it!!

I have looked at a number of other cars ranging from an Audi A4 1.8T quattro to a MK2 Golf GTi with some mods.
I rested on the Jap cars as I want to learn more about engines and have been told that these are quite a good place to start.

Other Jap cars I think of worth looking at would be:

-Toyota Supra Turbo - I have been put off these by a mate who has had a couple and both have been wallet burners.
-Nissan 300ZX turbo z31 or maybe z32 - Really not a fan of the front of these, Just plain ugly IMO
-Impreza WRX STI's (not WRX's) - The different models and ilks of this car confuse the st out of me, if I was to look at these what would I be looking at? what year? what is the actual name of it? (I am guessing that Bugeye/blobeye/and hawkeye are not the official names)?
-An early Evo - I do love these but they look a little too guerrish... Evo 4 though, that would be nice.
-Mitsubishi 3000 GTO - way too big!
-Celica GT-Four - simply don't like them, couldn't tell you why just don't.

[300bhp/ton]

sparkyhx said:

200's were made up to 2000/2001 There are some 51 plate ones knocking around. However they are pretty rare compared with Scoobs etc - I have done journeys of thousands of miles and not seen a 200, where you will see 10,000 scoobs.
- If your thinking of a 300zx - open the bopnnet and look at the engine bay and tell me its not scary, unless you like taking out engines to do minor jobs.
- Mitsu 3000/GTO lardy and not that fast
- Supra great but for 4K?
- scoobs etc - great, but too common for me.

I like the rarity, coupled with reasomnably cheap to run, fix etc. Fairly easilly and cheaply modable compared with NA cars.
and lastly the best owners club bar none

============

the 'fair amount of work' you refer to is to do it properly - stick a £35 manual boost controller on it and you will see 260-280 bhp.

You can cross your fingers on the fuel pump and risk DET and hope it supplies the right amount of fuel to match the increase in boost - but really you are taking a big risk
Don't run colder plugs and risk DET - big risk
exhaust is not necessary, - it will be slower to boost
airfilter change/upgrade is not necessary - it will be slower to boost
FMIC not necessary - hot days only
Chipping it - not necessary
Boost guage not necessary except for setup - but you won't know if its spiking

Its very easy to get stage 1 power, but less easy to it properly. Stage 1 is BMW M3 performance terratory.

To see 300hp and you will need AFM, bigger injectors, maxing out the std turbo

Its a damn site easier doing it to one of these than an NA car £5k for ported and polished head etc - thats an extra 10hp thank you very much.

Thanks for the info

I'm not against the 200SX, as said I've owned one.

Only points to make, Impreza's, I think it depends were you live. Round were I am I do see quite a few, although I don't think many are STI's.

But sometimes I commute 115 miles to work on client site, on these occasions I tend to see very few Impreza's, maybe one or 2 per round trip. I was amazed at how few.

With 200SX's, again on these longer runs I didn't see many, but there are a few in the area. There are 4 very horrid chavved up ones running ghastly neon colour rims. Which is a shame IMO.

Also a descent exhaust system will affect power and boost. Stock exhausts create back pressure, a free flow exhaust, cat, manifold will reduce this back pressure. On an FI car, any FI car will will reduce the boost being seen in the intake manifold.

The turbo is still flowing the same CFM but as the restriction is less, so will the pressure (ie the boost level).

[300bhp/ton]

al3x.kay said:

I have looked at a number of other cars ranging from an Audi A4 1.8T quattro to a MK2 Golf GTi with some mods.
I rested on the Jap cars as I want to learn more about engines and have been told that these are quite a good place to start.

Yes turbo cars are good place to start and in most cases cheap easy gains can be had at first.

Personally I don't believe that they are really any cheaper to tune though once you get past the 1st bit of upping the boost on stock components.

Quite quickly you'll reach the limits of the stock turbo, injectors, fuel system or engine internals.

From here HP gains are expensive. A new turbo, fuel system and full engine rebuild is as expensive and as much work as taking a n/a engine and rebuilding it and adding a turbo IMO.

So it depends what you want to learn and how far you want to go.

Not that I'm saying this is the right thing for you, but I've said this in other posts.

Something like a V8 Jag is just as capable, biggest downer is the auto box from a drivers point of view but some Jap cars have these too (Toyota Soarer).

But the Jag starts off with 290hp, and many of the mods you'll want to do on a Jap car, exhaust, intake you'd do on this.

Ok gains maybe more limited to 20hp or so. But you'd have your 300hp.

Other takes on the same theme would be XJR's, the straight 6 runs a tunable blower and makes 330hp in stock trim the 4.0 V8 makes 370hp, up the boost and a few other tweeks and 450hp+ is really not out of the question.

And again, American muscle. All go fairly well stock and again respond to the same mods as any other cars (exhaust/induction). If you want more power the displacement allows silly amounts of nitrous oxide. On pretty much any V8 you could run a 150 shot of nitrous if setup correctly.

But I know you've said this isn't what you want, which is ok, I'm just giving example's of different answers to a similar question.

al3x.kay said:

-Impreza WRX STI's (not WRX's) - The different models and ilks of this car confuse the st out of me, if I was to look at these what would I be looking at? what year? what is the actual name of it? (I am guessing that Bugeye/blobeye/and hawkeye are not the official names)?

For the money you are looking at I'd say look at a WRX STI.

It does get confusing and the adds are all over the show, although PH classifieds does split them up into different categories.

The UK models are called Turbo 2000, these are pretty much the same as a JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) WRX but with less power and lower spec. IMO avoid these.

The WRX STI has different gearbox, different engine, different turbo, different brakes, different suspension. They perform very well in stock trim.

Each year they introduced a newer version. I'd recommend looking at WRX STI version III onwards. I think that is MY 1996+

The last of the classic shape Impreza WRX STI's would be a VI. But I've seen very few V or VI's for sale.

A IV will have the facelift front and interior (still a classic)

Stay clear of the new age Impreza's, (bug, blob and Hawkeye) as you won't get anything interesting in your budget most likely.


If you want a more hardcore experience the Type R or Type RA is a stripped (less sound proofing, more raw, etc) variant of the WRX STI's. These were made in limited numbers so will generally have a price hike over a regular STI, although engine and such things are not really any different. They do have DCCD (driver controlled centre diff) which can make them more rwd biased and more of a handful if you don't know what you are doing.

Well worth a look IMO

[al3x.kay]

Wow, this is all getting quite technical...

Thanks for your help chaps, I have just spoken to a friend of mine and his hooking me up with drive in an Impreza, (although I think it is a new one) and his own 200SX running at about 280BHP.
He has even suggested I could take it off his hands for 4k!

Seems a little to easy but I know he looks after his cars.

As far as the 200sx is concerned are they prone to any issues?

[300bhp/ton]

al3x.kay said:

Wow, this is all getting quite technical...

Thanks for your help chaps, I have just spoken to a friend of mine and his hooking me up with drive in an Impreza, (although I think it is a new one) and his own 200SX running at about 280BHP.
He has even suggested I could take it off his hands for 4k!

Seems a little to easy but I know he looks after his cars.

Sounds like it might be a good bet

al3x.kay said:

As far as the 200sx is concerned are they prone to any issues?

I'd suggest joining the owners club link posted above (somewhere..) and ask there. You'll more info than on here.

As with any car of this age check for rust, crash damage, smoke. Make sure it drives straight and revs to the red line and that the clutch and gearbox work as expected.

Might be worth getting a Hpi or similar done. You can get them done for under £10 online.

[al3x.kay]

OK cool,

Thanks again for all the advice, I have pretty much only bought German cars in the past apart from the CTR which I have to admit I miss but can't bring myself to get another one (I want to experience something new). And this is all rather new to me.

I am looking forward to going and having a drive in both of these now!

[sparkyhx]

al3x.kay said:

Wow, this is all getting quite technical...

Thanks for your help chaps, I have just spoken to a friend of mine and his hooking me up with drive in an Impreza, (although I think it is a new one) and his own 200SX running at about 280BHP.
He has even suggested I could take it off his hands for 4k!

Seems a little to easy but I know he looks after his cars.

As far as the 200sx is concerned are they prone to any issues?

you really are comparing chalk with cheese. The scoob will probably feel that much more planted and probably faster the 200 more skittish - but drive the 200 well and its a joy I think its ultimately a more rewarding car when driven well...but I am biased

Common Faults
- Fuel Pump 70k - you will need an upgrade anyway £80
- wing mount intercooler pipes fracture - just replace with a front mount.
- sticking pistons on front brakes - easy sorted
- if its been modded check its been done properly not on the cheap
- oil spray bars in the head can clog and cause cam lobe wear and eventually bottom end wear
- rust is starting to be an issue on older cars (probably not in your price bracket)ones with side skirts can collect water and cause rust to sills.
- windscreen washer bottle pump or wiring failure
- VVT Rattle - just noise, but can be cured


otherwise pretty bomb proof

Edited by sparkyhx on Wednesday 7th October 15:12

[RobCrezz]

Also, VVT rattle, but its just noisy and doesnt tend to cause a failure (on S14).

[sparkyhx]

RobCrezz said:

Also, VVT rattle, but its just noisy and doesnt tend to cause a failure (on S14).

ha ha edited my post at the same time to add VVT

300bhp/ton said:

Also a descent exhaust system will affect power and boost. Stock exhausts create back pressure, a free flow exhaust, cat, manifold will reduce this back pressure. On an FI car, any FI car will will reduce the boost being seen in the intake manifold.

The turbo is still flowing the same CFM but as the restriction is less, so will the pressure (ie the boost level).

thats why I said - "noticable" - under normal driving conditions you don't notice any change I think the accepted figures on the 200 are around 10bhp gain from filter and exhaust. It will also boost a bit quicker cos you have more the restrictions

Edited by sparkyhx on Wednesday 7th October 18:07

[al3x.kay]

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2009...

[RobCrezz]

al3x.kay said:

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2009...

Dont get the 2.0 get the 2.2 vtec engine. Its far far far far better.