Scooby confusion... help!

[SpeedYellow]

Right, so this seems to be where my car knowledge comes to an end.... last time I had one it was a long time ago and it was a brand new RB5.

What I'm after is the best road car for £5k, will be used on motorway so no silly short gearing etc and does need aircon.

This is to be my practical motor.... so as I can't even find my way through the standard, WRX, STI bit in the classifieds as everything seems to be everywhere?

So what I need is someone who really knows them that can point me towards a few cars (ideally in the South) that I should be looking at for £5k.

Cheers for you help!

[plenty]

Sounds like a newage WRX would fit the bill, not as raw and visceral as the classics but better built and more comfortable. Forget the classic STi if you don't like short gearing. 5k gets you into prime Bugeye territory and also some higher-mile hawkeyes. Look out for one with the Prodrive pack fitted, for STi-rivalling power.

[Tyranosawus]

plenty said:

Look out for one with the Prodrive pack fitted, for STi-rivalling power.

Sorry, I can't resist but . If you want an STI buy an STI. A WRX with a PPP is not an STI it's a whole different animal. for 5k I wouldn't bother with a hawkeye, if you can't afford a good one you certainly can't afford a bad one and 5K wont get a good one that's for sure. you might be able to get a reasonable early blobeye for that sort of money. I'd avoid a WRX simply because of the 5 speed box not being ideal for motorway runs.

Edited by Tyranosawus on Tuesday 6th October 19:20

[plenty]

Tyranosawus said:

plenty said:

Look out for one with the Prodrive pack fitted, for STi-rivalling power.

A WRX with a PPP is not an STI it's a whole different animal.

Can't disagree with that. However I simply said that the PPP WRX rivals the STi on pure HP terms, which it does. I didn't say it was an STi.

Tyranosawus said:

I'd avoid a WRX simply because of the 5 speed box not being ideal for motorway runs.

You'd be pretty hard pushed to find an newage STi for 5k particularly if abiding by your wise criterion of not buying a knackered one. Hence the suggestion of a WRX PPP being the next best thing, unless the OP can stretch to another couple of large.

[chrisk]

Doesn't the 5spd box have a higher gearing in top when compared to the STi so better for motorway work?

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/3564...

[Tyranosawus]

chrisk said:

Doesn't the 5spd box have a higher gearing in top when compared to the STi so better for motorway work?

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/3564...

I'd dissagree with about half of what's said in this article. Although to be fair, it sounds like the tester ran out of bravery and may not have given the test cars the full berries, so may be erring on the side of caution. That's fair enough, I guess they don't want to be responsible for an increase of upside down in a ditch / field / tree incidents Personaly I've always found the "all things to all men" compromise of the five speed box irritating in the Impreza but I know quite a few people who actualy prefer it.

[300bhp/ton]

SpeedYellow said:

Right, so this seems to be where my car knowledge comes to an end.... last time I had one it was a long time ago and it was a brand new RB5.

What I'm after is the best road car for £5k, will be used on motorway so no silly short gearing etc and does need aircon.

This is to be my practical motor.... so as I can't even find my way through the standard, WRX, STI bit in the classifieds as everything seems to be everywhere?

So what I need is someone who really knows them that can point me towards a few cars (ideally in the South) that I should be looking at for £5k.

Cheers for you help!

Afraid I'm not going to point you at any for sale, but I agree the classifieds are a MESS in regards to Impreza's, it's a total mine field.

Most of the problem lies with imports and idiots either not knowing or deliberately miss badging their cars.

For £5k you are straddling the classic Impreza and new age ones depending on what you want.

This is my understanding of the cars.

Classics 1993? - 2000

ALL UK versions of the Impreza were badged as "Turbo 2000" all bar a few special editions.

The Turbo 2000 is essentially a lower spec WRX with 208hp increasing to 215hp in 1999 when they received a facelift inside and out.

You should be able to get a very nice one of these for your budget.

However they aren't the fastest or most capable or even the best specced.

An RB5 was just a tarted up Turbo 2000 although there was a "Prodrive" engine upgrade which iirc took power to 237hp.

A JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) Impreza of the same era would be called WRX. Quite similar to the Turbo 2000 but often better specced, more options and more powerful. Early ones make 240PS and the latter ones rated at 280PS.

I don't know for certain but I suspect some might have had shorter gearing. There were also some speical editions and limited production variants for rally homoligation I believe.

During this time there was also the Impreza WRX STI. This is quite a different car to the WRX with different brakes, suspension, engine (internals) and turbo, gearbox and likely final drive ratio. These were rated at 280PS although its believed they may have made over 300hp in stock trim. These are a lot faster, and a much better performance car. Many WRX's in the UK are miss sold or attempted to be miss sold as STI's.

STI's generally have air con. There was a more stripped out version of the STI, the 2 door Type R and the 4 door Type RA. These are hard core variants for homoligation for Group A rally cars I beleive, no air con, wind up windows and DCCD (Driver Controlled Centre Diff).

Overall the STI's are very different cars to a Turbo 2000 or a WRX and it would take quite a bit to make either of these as fast or capable as a stock STI.

All of the JDM cars will need to be run on superunleaded, pref 99 RON or lower with an additive.

The UK Turbo 2000 should be fine on 95 RON, although I suspect the Prodrive engine upgrade ones may also need superunleaded.

The most other notable UK car would be the Prodrive One, or P1. This is basically an WRX STI Type R (2 door body) with what I can tell a regular STI engine. So 280PS or more hp but no DCCD.

From 2001 the "bug eye" new age Impreza was launched. In the UK we got the WRX for the first time. This replaced the Turbo 2000 and is still the entry model turbo Impreza.

It retained the previous 215hp and I think had slightly longer gearing, combine this with the extra weight of the new age car and performance was blunted.

From here my knowledge gets a bit sketchy. At some point the WRX hp was increased, I think to around 237hp/240ps to try and improve performance. There were a few UK special editions such as the UK300 but all were toned down compared to a proper STI.

I suspect anything newer than this will be beyond budget.


Personally I can't see any of them being an issue on the motorway, all will cruise at 70mph the legal limit.

MPG wise a bug eye WRX is probably the best bet but its also the slowest and dullest option IMO.

[GravelBen]

Good info, a few extra bits to add about Type-RA etc:

300bhp/ton said:

A JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) Impreza of the same era would be called WRX. Quite similar to the Turbo 2000 but often better specced, more options and more powerful. Early ones make 240PS and the latter ones rated at 280PS.

I don't know for certain but I suspect some might have had shorter gearing. There were also some speical editions and limited production variants for rally homoligation I believe.

Homologation versions are Type-RA, there was a WRX Type-RA and R which had the lightweight shell, less soundproofing etc along with the close-ratio gearbox but WRX rather than STi motor and no DCCD. Often misadvertised as being STi-RA but the lack of DCCD is a big giveaway, STi-RA or R should have a small control wheel beside the handbrake a bit like this:



and a difflock display on the dash like this:

300bhp/ton said:

STI's generally have air con. There was a more stripped out version of the STI, the 2 door Type R and the 4 door Type RA. These are hard core variants for homoligation for Group A rally cars I beleive, no air con, wind up windows and DCCD (Driver Controlled Centre Diff).

Air-con was an option on Type-R and RA so plenty of them do have it, especially V-ltd special editions. The V-ltds also had more options such as a longer 5th gear for better cruising (AFAIK regular STi 5th rather than Group-N 5th as per normal RA), power windows, stereos (some RAs never had them as standard!) and so on.

As you say they were primarily homologation cars - still officially 280bhp but often thought to have more, close ratio box, DCCD, no ABS as it wasn't compatible with the DCCD. Great fun to drive, much more tailhappy with the DCCD wound back but less idiot-proof than a regular WRX or STi.

Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 7th October 10:32

[ScoobieWRX]

I think the plot has been lost in this thread. The OP wants a good scoob for £5K.

For £5K you can get Bugeye WRX in very reasonable unmolested condition without huge mileage. A poster that said the WRX isn't good for motorways due to the gearing.....Have you ever driven a WRX?? Methinks you don't know what you're talking about!!

At 7100rpm:
40 in 1st
70 in 2nd
99 in 3rd
139 in 4th
183 in 5th

The five speed box although nowhere near as strong as a 6spd box is however a lot smoother to use and will take a fair bit of punishment and power before it goes bang....i know

I drive WRX's and STi's, sometimes back to back regularly and there isn't a country mile between both in standard trim until you get on the motorway or a decent B road and start hitting over 80-90mph.

You won't get a newage STi for £5K but if you really want some decent STi rivalling bhp get one without PPP, stick a decat uppipe and centre pipe on, flat panel air filter, Snorkus delete mod and a remap. A standard STi can kiss you arse and then some, and a PPP STi will have big problems losing you!!

Edited by ScoobieWRX on Thursday 8th October 16:15

[300bhp/ton]

ScoobieWRX said:

I think the plot has been lost in this thread. The OP wants a good scoob for £5K.

For £5K you can get Bugeye WRX in very reasonable unmolested condition without huge mileage. The poster that said the WRX isn't good for motorways due to the gearing.....Have you ever driven a WRX?? Methinks you don't know what you're talking about!!

At 7100rpm:
40 in 1st
70 in 2nd
99 in 3rd
139 in 4th
183 in 5th

The five speed box although nowhere near as strong as a 6spd box is however a lot smoother to use and will take a fair bit of punishment and power before it goes bang....i know

I drive WRX's and STi's, sometimes back to back regularly and there isn't a country mile between both in standard trim until you get on the motorway or a decent B road and start hitting over 80-90mph.

You won't get a newage STi for £5K but if you really want some decent STi rivalling bhp get one without PPP, stick a decat uppipe and centre pipe on, flat panel air filter, Snorkus delete mod and a remap. A standard STi can kiss you arse and then some, and a PPP STi will have big problems losing you!!

exactly how is a regular WRX with a few bolt on mods going to say goodbye to an STI?

Surely the stock turbo is maxed out before you even get to STI hp levels? Not too mention you can do all those mods to an STI anyhow.

[ScoobieWRX]

You can squeeze 280-290bhp from the standard TD04 13T turbo and 440cc injectors and still look after the engine. You say a few bolt-ons....the standard WRX has 3 600cell cats in the exhaust system. One in the uppipe, one at the end of the short downpipe, and one in the centrepipe. The standard flat panel air filter is more of a restriction than anything and fitting a high flow flat panel airfilter that flows 45-50% more air makes a huge difference just by itself.

The poor engine is badly strangled as standard but once you've taken care of induction and exhaust it's free to release huge potential with some mapping. A remap will release at least 30bhp from a bog standard WRX but add some bolt-ons and you release some really decent power.

With some very agressive mapping you'll see over 300bhp from a TD04 but that's not advised.

A PPP STi is somewhere around 300bhp. Once you get a WRX up to 280/290 bhp there's is very little between them.

Edited by ScoobieWRX on Thursday 8th October 16:33

[300bhp/ton]

ScoobieWRX said:

You can squeeze 280-290bhp from the standard TD04 13T turbo and 440cc injectors and still look after the engine. You say a few bolt-ons....the standard WRX has 3 600cell cats in the exhaust system. One in the uppipe, one at the end of the short downpipe, and one in the centrepipe. The standard flat panel air filter is more of a restriction than anything and fitting a high flow flat panel airfilter that flows 45-50% more air makes a huge difference just by itself.

The poor engine is badly strangled as standard but once you've taken care of induction and exhaust it's free to release huge potential with some mapping. A remap will release at least 30bhp from a bog standard WRX but add some bolt-ons and you release some really decent power.

With some very agressive mapping you'll see over 300bhp from a TD04 but that's not advised.

Cool

And I'm posting more in question than to disagree.

But After doing all that aren't you only just about matching STI hp levels at best and possibly still shy of them?

Not too mention the other extra's the STI's have such as different suspension, brakes, final drive and gearbox?

I struggle to see how the WRX would wave bye bye to one?

Although I do agree, that driven in anything resembling sane I doubt there'd be much difference on most B road's. But a tweaked classic Mini Cooper is quite affective on them too if you know what I mean.

[Tyranosawus]

ScoobieWRX said:

A poster that said the WRX isn't good for motorways due to the gearing.....Have you ever driven a WRX?? Methinks you don't know what you're talking about!!

PMSL @ those quoted figures and you say I don't know what I'm talking about

But without wanting to hijack the thread with a load of fanciful figures, and getting back on topic. A bugeye WRX with a PPP would probably be do-able for 5K and would tick all the OPs' boxes.

Edited by Tyranosawus on Thursday 8th October 16:49

[ScoobieWRX]

With a newage STi you're always going to pay a premium for the bullet proof 6spd box, engine with bigger turbo and injectors, proper sports suspension and massive tea tray spoiler of course

The WRX's are a bit more inconspicuous, quieter and a bit softer on the suspenion but they are a lot nicer to be in on very badly potholed and rutted roads not to mention more comfy and relaxed on a long motorway haul too. And of course the sportwagon (like mine) is very practical.

One is hardcore, there other isn't. They serve a slightly different market to eachother but bang per buck the WRX with some fairly inexpensive mods can be brought easily up to similar power levels as the PPP STi and overall cost a lot less.

People put a downer on the WRX and rate them as the poor cousin but quite the opposite couldn't be more true.

[ScoobieWRX]

Tyranosawus said:

ScoobieWRX said:

A poster that said the WRX isn't good for motorways due to the gearing.....Have you ever driven a WRX?? Methinks you don't know what you're talking about!!

PMSL @ those quoted figures and you say I don't know what I'm talking about

But without wanting to hijack the thread with a load of fanciful figures, and getting back on topic. A bugeye WRX with a PPP would probably be do-able for 5K and would tick all the OPs' boxes.

Edited by Tyranosawus on Thursday 8th October 16:49

I don't have to quote fanciful figures that i can't back up. Those figures are based on the UK newage WRX 5spd gearbox and final drive ratios with top speed based on a WRX redline of 7100rpm.

An STi has a theoretical top speed of 191mph from the six speed box at 7600rpm but that doesn't make the WRX any less capable as a motorway cruiser. There's nothing fanciful about the mph figures i've quoted, they are fact!!

At 3500rpm my car is doing about 90mph which is nice and quiet and pretty good going if you want relaxed crusing. It's not even breaking into a sweat.

[nottyash]

How about my 2001 Newage WRX?
I was going to advertise it in a couple of weeks when i am back off holiday.
Its lots of prodrive extras including lights, diffuser, and carbon interior.
Engine is standard. FSH and 63K.
Ive had 4 x new discs, and refurbed the calipers with new seals. cambelt was done at 49k.
Wheels are new this year.

[ScoobieWRX]

That looks really tidy, right colour and right mileage. Full service history no doubt and relatively unmolested.

Stick it on PH classifieds and it will sell in no time. That's a nice example!!

Edited by ScoobieWRX on Friday 9th October 08:01

[nottyash]

ScoobieWRX said:

That looks really tidy, right colour and right mileage. Full service history no doubt and relatively unmolested.

Stick it on PH classifieds and it will sell in no time. That's a nice example!!

Edited by ScoobieWRX on Friday 9th October 08:01

Thanks,
Yep thats my problem and reason for sale.
I am away on holiday monday, I come back for oly a week and am away on business for 3 months so dont need the car. Its difficult to advertise in that time, but will try the week i am back off holiday.
someone will get a good car.

[Tyranosawus]

ScoobieWRX said:

I don't have to quote fanciful figures that i can't back up.

An STi has a theoretical top speed of 191mph from the six speed box at 7600rpm

At 3500rpm my car is doing about 90mph which is nice and quiet and pretty good going if you want relaxed crusing. It's not even breaking into a sweat.

[SpeedYellow]

Firstly, thanks everyone for all the info and glad I'm not the only one finding the classifieds a bit confusing at the moment.

Ash, ref your car below, can you email me as can't see a link off your profile to contact you? Would love some more pictures and details, you're not local but might be the right car for me at the moment!

nottyash said:

How about my 2001 Newage WRX?
I was going to advertise it in a couple of weeks when i am back off holiday.
Its lots of prodrive extras including lights, diffuser, and carbon interior.
Engine is standard. FSH and 63K.
Ive had 4 x new discs, and refurbed the calipers with new seals. cambelt was done at 49k.
Wheels are new this year.