What to buy?!?!?!?
Discussion
Looking to get a new car, probably after Christmas, and was wondering what to get?
Thinking of something along the lines of an Impreza Bug/Blob UK300/WRX/STi, Civic EP3/Accord Type R or a BMW 330ci. Car needs to be of a reasonable size, as i need to fit my scuba diving gear in the boot.
Has anyone had/got the pleasure of owning any of these? I briefly owned a WRX, so know what thats like. Was wondering what the others are like? Spend a fair bit of time on the motorways, so would appreciate economy info. I know you dont buy these cars for economy blah blah blah, but as i said i do alot of motorway driving, so would be handy to know. The imprezza's fuel consumption was fine for what im prepared for.
Many Thanks
Thinking of something along the lines of an Impreza Bug/Blob UK300/WRX/STi, Civic EP3/Accord Type R or a BMW 330ci. Car needs to be of a reasonable size, as i need to fit my scuba diving gear in the boot.
Has anyone had/got the pleasure of owning any of these? I briefly owned a WRX, so know what thats like. Was wondering what the others are like? Spend a fair bit of time on the motorways, so would appreciate economy info. I know you dont buy these cars for economy blah blah blah, but as i said i do alot of motorway driving, so would be handy to know. The imprezza's fuel consumption was fine for what im prepared for.
Many Thanks
I'd say go for the STI. If you can find a UK300 (the one with the angular spoiler and the prodrive clusters), all the better. I think my STI is the best car I've owned so far, I use it as a daily drive and do a lot of motorway travel. The 6 speed box is brilliant for Mway driving, and if I'm careful, I can get 28 mpg on a long run.
Edited by Syndrome on Saturday 28th November 13:05
Have you thought of a 350Z, great overall car & a real GT in the true sense, just swallows up long journeys. You can get 2 Golf bags in the back so you may stand a chance with the Scuba gear. I had an Impreza wagon a few years ago & the zed is just so much nore refined. Also a bit more street cred as a lot of the older Imprezas are now within reach of the chavs which is knocking the Image IMO. Nissan knocked the last of the 350's out for around 19K to make way for the 370 & that destroyed the market so there are some very nice cars around for good money, no need for an Import anymore
How many miles do you do? No point buying a rocketship if you have to spend all your time slipstreaming lorries in the loser lane in order to get acceptable MPG. Provocative statement I know, but my brand new STI only lasted 9 months because the mpg pissed me off so much. I'd be looking at a Type-R of some description as they can be sensible and stupid depending on which mood you're in.
An STi is the way to go with it's bullet proof engine and gearbox, more in your face rally looks and excellent reliability.
If you found MPG on a WRX acceptable then you'll like the STi's mpg.....which is better!! Definately 300miles to a tankful of 99RON on a run, that's not bad. You get more power, Torque, MPG and better handling out of the box, and without doing a stich of modifying you can squeeze another 20-30bhp just with a remap. Spend a few bob and you'll get 340-350bhp no probs all day long and still get better fuel economy than a WRX.
I cover a shedload of miles in my WRX wagon (now STi engined) and it does exactly what it says on the tin, everyday, without failure!! Go for it...treat yourself!!
If you found MPG on a WRX acceptable then you'll like the STi's mpg.....which is better!! Definately 300miles to a tankful of 99RON on a run, that's not bad. You get more power, Torque, MPG and better handling out of the box, and without doing a stich of modifying you can squeeze another 20-30bhp just with a remap. Spend a few bob and you'll get 340-350bhp no probs all day long and still get better fuel economy than a WRX.
I cover a shedload of miles in my WRX wagon (now STi engined) and it does exactly what it says on the tin, everyday, without failure!! Go for it...treat yourself!!
ScoobieWRX said:
An STi is the way to go with it's bullet proof engine and gearbox, more in your face rally looks and excellent reliability.
If you found MPG on a WRX acceptable then you'll like the STi's mpg.....which is better!! Definately 300miles to a tankful of 99RON on a run, that's not bad. You get more power, Torque, MPG and better handling out of the box, and without doing a stich of modifying you can squeeze another 20-30bhp just with a remap. Spend a few bob and you'll get 340-350bhp no probs all day long and still get better fuel economy than a WRX.
I cover a shedload of miles in my WRX wagon (now STi engined) and it does exactly what it says on the tin, everyday, without failure!! Go for it...treat yourself!!
Sorry, I don't want to turn this into a Subaru thread, but if you're going to suggest 300 miles to a tank in an STI then I'm going to have to say I never, ever, ever got anywhere near that. You have said you do a "shedload of miles" in your car which suggests you do long journeys. If the OP tends to do lots of shorter trips then he'll be lucky to see 250. My worst was 220 miles (less than 20mpg) and that involved no fun driving whatsoever. At prices approaching £6/gallon you're looking at about £65 to fill up and that will hurt.If you found MPG on a WRX acceptable then you'll like the STi's mpg.....which is better!! Definately 300miles to a tankful of 99RON on a run, that's not bad. You get more power, Torque, MPG and better handling out of the box, and without doing a stich of modifying you can squeeze another 20-30bhp just with a remap. Spend a few bob and you'll get 340-350bhp no probs all day long and still get better fuel economy than a WRX.
I cover a shedload of miles in my WRX wagon (now STi engined) and it does exactly what it says on the tin, everyday, without failure!! Go for it...treat yourself!!
SonicHedgeHog said:
ScoobieWRX said:
An STi is the way to go with it's bullet proof engine and gearbox, more in your face rally looks and excellent reliability.
If you found MPG on a WRX acceptable then you'll like the STi's mpg.....which is better!! Definately 300miles to a tankful of 99RON on a run, that's not bad. You get more power, Torque, MPG and better handling out of the box, and without doing a stich of modifying you can squeeze another 20-30bhp just with a remap. Spend a few bob and you'll get 340-350bhp no probs all day long and still get better fuel economy than a WRX.
I cover a shedload of miles in my WRX wagon (now STi engined) and it does exactly what it says on the tin, everyday, without failure!! Go for it...treat yourself!!
Sorry, I don't want to turn this into a Subaru thread, but if you're going to suggest 300 miles to a tank in an STI then I'm going to have to say I never, ever, ever got anywhere near that. You have said you do a "shedload of miles" in your car which suggests you do long journeys. If the OP tends to do lots of shorter trips then he'll be lucky to see 250. My worst was 220 miles (less than 20mpg) and that involved no fun driving whatsoever. At prices approaching £6/gallon you're looking at about £65 to fill up and that will hurt.If you found MPG on a WRX acceptable then you'll like the STi's mpg.....which is better!! Definately 300miles to a tankful of 99RON on a run, that's not bad. You get more power, Torque, MPG and better handling out of the box, and without doing a stich of modifying you can squeeze another 20-30bhp just with a remap. Spend a few bob and you'll get 340-350bhp no probs all day long and still get better fuel economy than a WRX.
I cover a shedload of miles in my WRX wagon (now STi engined) and it does exactly what it says on the tin, everyday, without failure!! Go for it...treat yourself!!
From Northampton i do regular trips to the highlands to visit Hazel's parents and i can get to the Scottish border on a full tank with two big dogs in the back and a back seat full of stuff, myself driving and Hazel running shotgun. That's pretty damn good IMHO.
If you have a big issue with MPG don't buy a scoob....buy a diesel!!
ScoobieWRX said:
SonicHedgeHog said:
ScoobieWRX said:
An STi is the way to go with it's bullet proof engine and gearbox, more in your face rally looks and excellent reliability.
If you found MPG on a WRX acceptable then you'll like the STi's mpg.....which is better!! Definately 300miles to a tankful of 99RON on a run, that's not bad. You get more power, Torque, MPG and better handling out of the box, and without doing a stich of modifying you can squeeze another 20-30bhp just with a remap. Spend a few bob and you'll get 340-350bhp no probs all day long and still get better fuel economy than a WRX.
I cover a shedload of miles in my WRX wagon (now STi engined) and it does exactly what it says on the tin, everyday, without failure!! Go for it...treat yourself!!
Sorry, I don't want to turn this into a Subaru thread, but if you're going to suggest 300 miles to a tank in an STI then I'm going to have to say I never, ever, ever got anywhere near that. You have said you do a "shedload of miles" in your car which suggests you do long journeys. If the OP tends to do lots of shorter trips then he'll be lucky to see 250. My worst was 220 miles (less than 20mpg) and that involved no fun driving whatsoever. At prices approaching £6/gallon you're looking at about £65 to fill up and that will hurt.If you found MPG on a WRX acceptable then you'll like the STi's mpg.....which is better!! Definately 300miles to a tankful of 99RON on a run, that's not bad. You get more power, Torque, MPG and better handling out of the box, and without doing a stich of modifying you can squeeze another 20-30bhp just with a remap. Spend a few bob and you'll get 340-350bhp no probs all day long and still get better fuel economy than a WRX.
I cover a shedload of miles in my WRX wagon (now STi engined) and it does exactly what it says on the tin, everyday, without failure!! Go for it...treat yourself!!
From Northampton i do regular trips to the highlands to visit Hazel's parents and i can get to the Scottish border on a full tank with two big dogs in the back and a back seat full of stuff, myself driving and Hazel running shotgun. That's pretty damn good IMHO.
If you have a big issue with MPG don't buy a scoob....buy a diesel!!
I fully understand that you don't buy an Impreza if you have an issue with fuel economy. However, it is very important to point out that, as you say, you are buying a 300bhp 4wd turbo that just happens to have a a big boot rather than a sensible, practical car that has the added bonus of being a bit quick.
I'm sorry to bang on about this, but I traded in a brilliant CTR I'd owned from new for the STI and it was by far the biggest motoring mistake of my life. I went from high-revving interaction at a reasonable price to the total uninvolvement of the licence-losingly quick STI that cost a fortune. It will piss me off until the day I die.
You go from a car with bugger all torque that you have to scream the nuts off to get any decent performance from to a car with lots of turbo induced torque from 2500-3000rpm that is very quick to the 7600rpm redline, will crack nearly 160mph out of the box and doesn't require much revving to get a move on. Plus driven correctly it gives reasonable gas mileage. Blimey, petrol heaven IMHO!!
You complain that it's licence losing quick and it was totally the wrong decision.....Yep it very probably was.....for you!!
You can also lose your licence in a Nissan Micra any day of the week, on any road in the UK, at any time of the day. You have a speed regulating device called your right foot which in turn is connected to your brain. You can wring every last bit of performance from your car even whilst being sensible about it and not losing your licence.
Hilarious!! Quick trade it in for another CTR!!
You complain that it's licence losing quick and it was totally the wrong decision.....Yep it very probably was.....for you!!
You can also lose your licence in a Nissan Micra any day of the week, on any road in the UK, at any time of the day. You have a speed regulating device called your right foot which in turn is connected to your brain. You can wring every last bit of performance from your car even whilst being sensible about it and not losing your licence.
Hilarious!! Quick trade it in for another CTR!!
ScoobieWRX said:
You go from a car with bugger all torque that you have to scream the nuts off to get any decent performance from to a car with lots of turbo induced torque from 2500-3000rpm that is very quick to the 7600rpm redline, will crack nearly 160mph out of the box and doesn't require much revving to get a move on. Plus driven correctly it gives reasonable gas mileage. Blimey, petrol heaven IMHO!!
You complain that it's licence losing quick and it was totally the wrong decision.....Yep it very probably was.....for you!!
You can also lose your licence in a Nissan Micra any day of the week, on any road in the UK, at any time of the day. You have a speed regulating device called your right foot which in turn is connected to your brain. You can wring every last bit of performance from your car even whilst being sensible about it and not losing your licence.
Hilarious!! Quick trade it in for another CTR!!
I've just parted company with a mildly modded (250bhp) UK Turbo 2000 and in fairness I share some of this feeling. Yes, if I sat at 60-65 indicated mph on the motorway it'd return over 35mpg but at an indicated 75 it did 27mpg and realistically, day to day, using the performance on the occasions the opportunity presented itself it'd average less than 25 to the gallon.You complain that it's licence losing quick and it was totally the wrong decision.....Yep it very probably was.....for you!!
You can also lose your licence in a Nissan Micra any day of the week, on any road in the UK, at any time of the day. You have a speed regulating device called your right foot which in turn is connected to your brain. You can wring every last bit of performance from your car even whilst being sensible about it and not losing your licence.
Hilarious!! Quick trade it in for another CTR!!
It was a nice enough car (once it was on Classic STi suspension with uprated anti-roll bars and a geometry setup) but all in all, pound for pound in running costs and insurance it just annoyed me. Grippy, certainly, quick, without doubt but lacking in adjustability and feedback and frankly f
king annoying due to the amount of fuel it used pottering around on a daily basis while not delivering enough of a petrolhead fix to justify the cost.Once you are used to the available feedback, how it's delivered and have practiced the art of 4WD adjustability, not only is the Impreza a huge amount of fun but it's very rewarding to drive hard and will flatter even the most average driver's ability.
It's very satisfying to see drivers that had a go at you down a B-road quickly getting smaller and finally dissappearing from your rear view mirror without trying too hard.
The Impreza is a cracking car to drive. Not one for the purist but certainly guaranteed to get you down the road at a blistering pace in the wet or dry, and in total safety as and when required. If the car is mapped and modded properly you can have it all and still return good MPG.
There are very few easy to drive everyday cars around that offer equivalent ability across the board without costing the earth.
There are a shedload of very happy Subaru drivers around that wouldn't give a XXXX for anything else!!
It's very satisfying to see drivers that had a go at you down a B-road quickly getting smaller and finally dissappearing from your rear view mirror without trying too hard.
The Impreza is a cracking car to drive. Not one for the purist but certainly guaranteed to get you down the road at a blistering pace in the wet or dry, and in total safety as and when required. If the car is mapped and modded properly you can have it all and still return good MPG.
There are very few easy to drive everyday cars around that offer equivalent ability across the board without costing the earth.
There are a shedload of very happy Subaru drivers around that wouldn't give a XXXX for anything else!!
I'm going to make this my last post on this thread because the poor OP must wonder how his original question has descended into this conversation.
ScoobieWRX, I've really tried to keep my opinions moderate because everyone likes different cars and I wanted to get my point across without getting up too many noses. But given you've just hammered the CTR I'm going to have another dig at the STI.
Things wrong with the STI:
1. Absolutely crap fuel economy - enjoy the car off the motorway and it's less than 20mpg.
2. Standard tyres make it useless in the snow and not very good in the wet. I know you can change them but sell the car back to a dealer and he won't like the replacements.
3. Put your foot down in an unmodified STI and you will be over the speed limit on any road once you pass about 4000rpm in 3rd. And one of those gears is the mechanically violent 1st gear that isn't actually fun at all. Two trips to the rev limiter means the fun is over in 6ish seconds.
4. Yes, it will rev to 7500rpm but there is no point going beyond 6500. There is no more thrust, just more noise. A VTEC engine it is not.
5. Unless you modify there is virtually no engine note inside the car.
6. The chassis is totally uninvolving unless you do silly speeds. This is hardly surprising given fours fat tyres, a competent 4wd chassis and modest power. I say modest power because there are FWD hot hatches with more oomph.
7. The gearing is a pain in the arse. Outside lane cruising at 85mph sees the turbo kicking in and out which is irritating and bad for economy.
8. Small point, but the stupid boot hinges severely limit what you can get in the boot - more of an issue than it sounds when you're fully loaded and need every inch of space.
9. The stereo is monumentally crap.
10. I don't want to have to spend a lot of money modifying the car into something it should have been in the first place. Because I bought new (with a massive discount) it would have hammered my warranty.
I'm not a total idiot. If the OP wants to go as fast as is humanly possible in a car with four doors and a boot and doesn't care about mpg or the police then he isn't going to get more car for the money. However, comments like 'will set a blistering pace in the wet or dry' and 'will flatter even the most average drivers ability' speak for themselves. Frankly you shouldn't be setting a blistering pace in the wet, but you probably will because unless you do you won't be having any fun and yet the fuel gauge will still be dropping like a stone.
Just one final point on the "good" mpg. My dull diesel hatch has a slightly SMALLER fuel tank than the STI. In the same number of miles that it takes the needle on my fuel gauge to move away from FULL the STI gauge will show half empty. Different cars with different abilities, but no one should be under any illusion that a cheap car is not necessarily going to be cheap to run.
ScoobieWRX, I know you'll want to reply to this as you look for different qualities in a car than I do. Just don't waste your time writing something that needs a reply from me because although I will read what you say, we owe it to the OP to stop hijacking his thread.
ATB
ScoobieWRX, I've really tried to keep my opinions moderate because everyone likes different cars and I wanted to get my point across without getting up too many noses. But given you've just hammered the CTR I'm going to have another dig at the STI.
Things wrong with the STI:
1. Absolutely crap fuel economy - enjoy the car off the motorway and it's less than 20mpg.
2. Standard tyres make it useless in the snow and not very good in the wet. I know you can change them but sell the car back to a dealer and he won't like the replacements.
3. Put your foot down in an unmodified STI and you will be over the speed limit on any road once you pass about 4000rpm in 3rd. And one of those gears is the mechanically violent 1st gear that isn't actually fun at all. Two trips to the rev limiter means the fun is over in 6ish seconds.
4. Yes, it will rev to 7500rpm but there is no point going beyond 6500. There is no more thrust, just more noise. A VTEC engine it is not.
5. Unless you modify there is virtually no engine note inside the car.
6. The chassis is totally uninvolving unless you do silly speeds. This is hardly surprising given fours fat tyres, a competent 4wd chassis and modest power. I say modest power because there are FWD hot hatches with more oomph.
7. The gearing is a pain in the arse. Outside lane cruising at 85mph sees the turbo kicking in and out which is irritating and bad for economy.
8. Small point, but the stupid boot hinges severely limit what you can get in the boot - more of an issue than it sounds when you're fully loaded and need every inch of space.
9. The stereo is monumentally crap.
10. I don't want to have to spend a lot of money modifying the car into something it should have been in the first place. Because I bought new (with a massive discount) it would have hammered my warranty.
I'm not a total idiot. If the OP wants to go as fast as is humanly possible in a car with four doors and a boot and doesn't care about mpg or the police then he isn't going to get more car for the money. However, comments like 'will set a blistering pace in the wet or dry' and 'will flatter even the most average drivers ability' speak for themselves. Frankly you shouldn't be setting a blistering pace in the wet, but you probably will because unless you do you won't be having any fun and yet the fuel gauge will still be dropping like a stone.
Just one final point on the "good" mpg. My dull diesel hatch has a slightly SMALLER fuel tank than the STI. In the same number of miles that it takes the needle on my fuel gauge to move away from FULL the STI gauge will show half empty. Different cars with different abilities, but no one should be under any illusion that a cheap car is not necessarily going to be cheap to run.
ScoobieWRX, I know you'll want to reply to this as you look for different qualities in a car than I do. Just don't waste your time writing something that needs a reply from me because although I will read what you say, we owe it to the OP to stop hijacking his thread.
ATB
SonicHedgeHog said:
Things wrong with the STI:
5. Unless you modify there is virtually no engine note inside the car.
6. The chassis is totally uninvolving unless you do silly speeds. This is hardly surprising given fours fat tyres, a competent 4wd chassis and modest power. I say modest power because there are FWD hot hatches with more oomph.
7. The gearing is a pain in the arse. Outside lane cruising at 85mph sees the turbo kicking in and out which is irritating and bad for economy.
8. Small point, but the stupid boot hinges severely limit what you can get in the boot - more of an issue than it sounds when you're fully loaded and need every inch of space.
I'm a total idiot.
5. Unless you modify there is virtually no engine note inside the car.
6. The chassis is totally uninvolving unless you do silly speeds. This is hardly surprising given fours fat tyres, a competent 4wd chassis and modest power. I say modest power because there are FWD hot hatches with more oomph.
7. The gearing is a pain in the arse. Outside lane cruising at 85mph sees the turbo kicking in and out which is irritating and bad for economy.
8. Small point, but the stupid boot hinges severely limit what you can get in the boot - more of an issue than it sounds when you're fully loaded and need every inch of space.
I'm a total idiot.
Can I present a balanced opinion between an STI and a CTR, as someone who's driven both and decided to buy neither.
The CTR lacks decent steering feel, isn't as well-damped as previous Type-R's, and (I've driven 3) can feel curiously flat - almost as if some engines aren't as well-mapped - one 2y.o. example felt noticeably less-accelerative, despite the 6-speed box, than my ITR...typically you'd expect them to feel similar. Needing to drop 2 gears to make decent progress, even on an M-way, is a little tiring. It has got an excellent chassis, but the lack of steering feel means you need to learn to trust the messages through your arse more. Oh, and the std tyres are rubbish in the wet, and it desperately needs a slippy diff!
The STI (v.8 in my case) is a stunning point-to-point weapon, and (IMHO) despite a little bit of a soft front-end giving understeer as standard, is more entertaining and more communicative, and sounds at least as good as the CTR, but very different. It's also far too easy to hit license-losing speeds. There are only 2 cars I've felt instantly confident enough in to hit 100+ on a test-drive on a B-road (both by accident, I assure you) - STi and E46 M3.
At the limit I'd say the CTR's agility and brakes claw a lot of ground back, but how often would you drive at either car's limits (esp. the STI). STI will also be more expensive (age-for-age) to buy and run than a CTR...that shouldn't be forgotten.
The CTR lacks decent steering feel, isn't as well-damped as previous Type-R's, and (I've driven 3) can feel curiously flat - almost as if some engines aren't as well-mapped - one 2y.o. example felt noticeably less-accelerative, despite the 6-speed box, than my ITR...typically you'd expect them to feel similar. Needing to drop 2 gears to make decent progress, even on an M-way, is a little tiring. It has got an excellent chassis, but the lack of steering feel means you need to learn to trust the messages through your arse more. Oh, and the std tyres are rubbish in the wet, and it desperately needs a slippy diff!
The STI (v.8 in my case) is a stunning point-to-point weapon, and (IMHO) despite a little bit of a soft front-end giving understeer as standard, is more entertaining and more communicative, and sounds at least as good as the CTR, but very different. It's also far too easy to hit license-losing speeds. There are only 2 cars I've felt instantly confident enough in to hit 100+ on a test-drive on a B-road (both by accident, I assure you) - STi and E46 M3.
At the limit I'd say the CTR's agility and brakes claw a lot of ground back, but how often would you drive at either car's limits (esp. the STI). STI will also be more expensive (age-for-age) to buy and run than a CTR...that shouldn't be forgotten.
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