A what car thread, something jap for 4k

[P10DGR]

I'll start by saying hello as i've never properly looked at the jap forums.

As the title says I'm going to be looking for a jap car of sorts for around 4k, I've got a real hankering for an imprezza sti v2 or v3.

First of all I want to know if its possible to get a good one for this sort of money and secondly I'm looking for suggestions for other cars that maybe worth looking at. Just to let you know it would have to be 4wd or rwd, fast (ie 250bhp+) and have decent handling. I've ruled out the following cars, pulsar, 200sx, mitsi evo 1-3 and MR2's.

Any help would be appreciated so thanks in advance.

[TotalControl]

Celica GT4 ST205. Solid build quality and better looking than an Impreza IMHO. £4k will get you a very decent one. I'd personally prefer one over the Subaru any day.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1310343.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1367068.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1376152.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1382647.htm

Afew to get the ball rolling.

[GravelBen]

Out of interest, why have you ruled out those other options?

Personally I'd be going for an Impreza STi Type-RA (or a Type-R if you prefer the 2-door version) if they fall within your price range.

[P10DGR]

Cheers for the celica suggestion, definately worth a look.

In answer to you question gravelben, the pulsar is out as my brother in law has one, it's been unreliable and IMO they are not worth the money that they seem to be going for. The 200 is out as it's just not my cup of tea, evo 1 - 3 (not meaning to affend anyone but) they are just protons with bodykits and that would always be in the back of mind, mr2's out as once again just not what i'm looking for and my mother used to have one, after driving it, it just never really grabbed my attention.

Further suggestions are welcome, the type-ra would definately be on the cards if i can find a decent one at the money i want to spend.

[ScoobieWRX]

V2 Imprezas are very mappable via the std ECU. They can have Launch Control and Flat Foot Shifting/Anti-Lag added and run MAFLESS!! With a few choice mods you can be looking at 330-350bhp on the standard internals although i don't fancy the gearbox's chances much.

If you decide to spend some money on it then with a forged bottom end and stronger gearbox your potential bhp is only as limited as your pocket. With an ESL remap on the std V1 or V2 ECU there is now no requirement to go for an eftermarket ECU and you are not limited on bhp. V1 and V2 cars are also very light as standard so your power to weight ratio even with 350bhp is much better than newage scoobs or come to that a fair few supercars.

[P10DGR]

Cheers for that info scoobie, would probably be spending money on one if i get it and the things you have mentioned are certainly things i'd be thinking of.

Is there anything i should be looking for when looking at imprezzas, i.e. problems, things that would make it worth buying?

[Wadeski]

Watch out #1 with scoobies: Does the owner button his shirt up to the top, wear a baseball cap, and use "innit" or "bruv" instead of pauses for breath in his sentences?

Edited by Wadeski on Thursday 10th December 22:11

[MartinM]

Why have you ruled out the cars you have? Depends what you're after i guess but an early Evo is much more of a raw drivers car than any Impreza. It has tail-led handling for power-oversteer rather than the dire power-understeer most Scoobs seem to suffer with. Sure you can make an Impreza handle well but you need to spend a fair amount. Same goes with engine tuning. With an Evo, a manual boost controller with a small boost increase and a possibly a fuel pump upgrade are all you need for RELIABLE 300bhp!

[ScoobieWRX]

MartinM said:

Why have you ruled out the cars you have? Depends what you're after i guess but an early Evo is much more of a raw drivers car than any Impreza. It has tail-led handling for power-oversteer rather than the dire power-understeer most Scoobs seem to suffer with. Sure you can make an Impreza handle well but you need to spend a fair amount. Same goes with engine tuning. With an Evo, a manual boost controller with a small boost increase and a possibly a fuel pump upgrade are all you need for RELIABLE 300bhp!

You don't need to spend a fortune on an Impreza to make it handle and dial out understeer. Thicker front and rear ARB's, solid drop links both ends, ALK, bump steer mod and geometry setup. No more understeer, very stable at high speed and under braking plus nice turn in. Doesn't break the bank either. Like anything else you can add dampers/springs both end but just to keep some compliancy for our crap UK roads standard dmapers/springs will be fine and still aloow you to take bends at silly speeds....in the wet!!

There is so much more you can do depending on how deep your pockets are but that's the same for any performance car!! Don't start me on engine tuning. You can get EVO busting bhp for not a lot of money very easily!! Subaru's don't cost a fortune to mod or maintain. It's all down to how far the individual wants to go

[GravelBen]

MartinM said:

...an early Evo is much more of a raw drivers car than any Impreza...

I'm sorry, but thats a load of b0ll0x. For sure they're more raw than a basic Impreza WRX (or the equivalent Lancer GSR), but a GSR Evo is in the same ballpark as an STi and an Evo RS to a Type-RA (which is more tail-led). I'd also be surprised if the OP can find an Evo in budget when an early Type-RA Impreza apparently isn't.

Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 10th December 23:55

[P10DGR]

In reply to you question Martin I've given the reasons as to why I've rulled out the various cars above.

I'll also agree with gravelben, the v2 and v3 sti i'm looking at are from what i've read, heard and driven a different driving experience than later models as i think I'm right in saying subaru changed the suspension slightly to make later models understeer more than the previous models. Also the running cost of an evo 1-3 are aswell as the looks something that i wouldn't consider, I could push my budget up and get something along the lines of a type ra impreza or good rb5 or even an evo 4 or 5 but as the car will be used only at the weekends and really just to have some fun in, I don't think it would be worth spending a huge amount more than I'm already looking too.

[GravelBen]

They were making STi-RA's from Ver.2 onwards, and may have made a Ver.1 WRX-RA but the memory is a bit hazy on that one. The WRX-RA has the same lightweight shell* and close-ratio box but misses out on the higher-spec engine and DCCD adjustable centre diff that the STi-RA gets.

I love the way the DCCD cars drive though, very neutral balance, sharp turn-in and power oversteer when you want it, adjustable all the way to complete centre difflock (for max traction in snow etc) via a harmless looking dial beside the handbrake.


* That lightweight shell - it has less soundproofing, thinner glass, allegedly even thinner alloy panels but I don't know that one for sure. The lightest WRX-RA is 1140kg from memory, varying up to about 1200kg for an STi-RA.

Even a regular WRX or STi is pretty light at that age though, 1250-1280 or thereabouts.

Edited by GravelBen on Friday 11th December 21:34

[P10DGR]

Cheers for the info GravelBen, the cars a certainly going to be a lot lighter than my current stead (v70 volvo) and hopefully around the same sort of power, hopefully this means fun fun fun and with a lot more traction!!!

Having an RA with the controlable centre diff would be nice if it's possible to find one in my budget, although if i do and the fiance drives it I know where it will be set!

Anymore info and car suggestions would be appreciated but I fear my mind may already be made up.

[Park'O]

P10DGR said:

Cheers for that info scoobie, would probably be spending money on one if i get it and the things you have mentioned are certainly things i'd be thinking of.

Is there anything i should be looking for when looking at imprezzas, i.e. problems, things that would make it worth buying?

Idle regulator, If that goes, its serious bucks! The whole throttle bodie must be replaced!

As for spec's, RA this Type R that! To behonest, they all weigh around 1250kg, and boast 280 - 300bhp standard. So performance wise your talking tenths of a sec regards quickest from A-B! All STI outfits have a good stock setup!

Like the chap mentions above, Power to weight ratio is strong! So if i was you, i'd concentrate on getting the torque up way over it's bhp stats! Like a WRC approach, enabling the car to pull every single ounce of Body fat it has!

[cbruton1975]

Subaru Legacy B4 RSK Twin Turbo - 276bhp for the manual, 4wd and 0-60 in 5.7 seconds. Does it for me!

[Syndrome]

MartinM said:

rather than the dire power-understeer most Scoobs seem to suffer with.

I've never found this with any scoob I've owned (although I've heard it from piss poor drivers). If they power understeer it's down to the drivers technique not the car.

[cbruton1975]

I agree syndrome - no power understeer here. You have to modify your technique slightly but my car is 276bhp standard and it's never been a problem.

[tommy18]

i'd go for an rx7 , had two and they've been great! you dont see many of them, look good, fast, handle well and in the right hands, reliable!

[MartinM]

I've got no interest in the whole "my car's better than your car" or the tired old Evo Vs Scooby retarded nonsense. The point of my deliberately provocative was post was to try and persuade the OP to keep an open mind and drive lots of different cars before he makes up his mind. I personally buy my "fun" cars based on how they drive not how they look. Perhaps others are different, fair enough.
My "raw drivers car" comments are totally subjective and again based on experience of both. My comments over the handling were based on my personal experience of driving them on-limit on a circuit. I've been driving competitively for a few years and, whilst i don't claim to be the worlds greatest driver, i do know about limit handling. Yes the Impreza can easily be made to oversteer, the Evo will just do it more readily.
My overall impression, based on those i've driven on road and track is that the Evo is much better on the limit. Scoobs though are great on the road under their limits (probably what most drivers believe is 99%).
I've yet to drive a Scoob with DCCD, which does sound like alot of fun though!

[300bhp/ton]

P10DGR said:

I'll start by saying hello as i've never properly looked at the jap forums.

As the title says I'm going to be looking for a jap car of sorts for around 4k, I've got a real hankering for an imprezza sti v2 or v3.

First of all I want to know if its possible to get a good one for this sort of money and secondly I'm looking for suggestions for other cars that maybe worth looking at. Just to let you know it would have to be 4wd or rwd, fast (ie 250bhp+) and have decent handling. I've ruled out the following cars, pulsar, 200sx, mitsi evo 1-3 and MR2's.

Any help would be appreciated so thanks in advance.

Not sure what I can offer that hasn’t already been mentioned.
 
I too have been looking at Impreza’s, in fact I went an looked at a lovely imported 97 STI v4 earlier this year, but sadly it didn’t work out.
 
My main concerns with such cars are running costs, I suspect 22mpg is not over optimistic and as that’ll be on 99 RON as a minimum it actually works out to be nearer 19-20mpg in money terms compared to a car running on cheaper 95 RON fuel.
 
And while I appreciate that the AWD gives loads of grip in the wet and winter weather, part of me wonders if such a car can actually become a little mundane as you have to drive at highly illegal speeds to really get any enjoyment from them.
 
I was also looking at the Celica GT-Four. I personally love the look of these, and on paper I love the technical specs and the rally heritage. I’m also a fan of it being a coupe.
 
However there is no denying that the GT-Four is less practical than an Impreza and I do honestly like the way the classic Impreza’s look. The STI’s are also more powerful, lighter, faster and better handling cars than the Celica. So I think this would result in the Celica not being as much fun. But it is a close call on which I truly prefer.
 
As for other Jap cars, well I personally have a very soft spot for the DC2 Integra, but it is evidently FWD and doesn’t meet your requirements.
 
But I think there are some important questions to ask. And that is what do you really want from the car and what do you need?
 
Do you really need 4 seats and a boot?
Does it have to be practical?
Can you afford to run a poor mpg machine?
 
As for the wants, well what attracts you to a car and why do you want to own it?
 
Is speed the most important thing?
Is it A to B ability?
Is it comfort and longer distance cruising ability?
Is it image or lack of?
Is it being part of a fad or fashion?
Is it about fun?
Is it about sense of occasion?
Is it about looks?
 
 
Essentially there are plenty of other interesting Jap cars that I’m sure fall within your budget. But it really does depend on a lot of criteria on what you really want.
 
300ZX
Supra single turbo MKIII
Supra non turbo MKIV
Mazda MX5 maybe with some FI mods
Mazda RX7, early one with mods
Subaru SVX (not sure how much these fetch nowadays)
Skyline GTS of some description
Starion
280z
 
Plus loads of others.
 
However for me personally I do like speed, but the appearance of the car is important too and overall it has to be the fun factor and feel good factor (or grins per mile) that is more likely to win out.
 
So based on this why only Jap cars? There are simply loads of other non Jap cars which are likely to offer a lot of things.
 
If you want something fast, reliable and easy to live with then maybe something American would fit the bill just as well?
 
A 4th Gen Fbody 1993-1997 model runs an LT1 5.7 V8 and makes 275hp (often thought to be nearer 300hp) in stock trim. Manual ones come with a 6 speed gearbox too. They are RWD and very capable.
 
I admit they weigh more than some cars, but if you search about you’ll be surprised at how heavy some cars actually are.
 
They are also very tuneable for more power, 350hp is easy and it really is sky’s the limit.
 
Running cost wise they’ll probably do 22-24mpg average, slightly lower in town and nearer 30mpg on the motorway. And this is on 95 RON, so probably cheaper to run than many turbo 4 pot motors.
 
I know it’s not for everyone, and I also accept many people pre-judge without really knowing all the facts. But depending on what you “really” want from the car it might well be an alternative fast car.