Newbie - Subara Imprezza STi / WRX or Evo iv-vi????

[redduke848]

Hi

Im trading my Ducati 848 superbike in for a performance car......bikes are too selfish & the missus doesnt like clinging on for dear life LOL

Im looking to spend upto £6000 max on a car of the above & ive looked on the classified section for deals etc.....

Basically, i know bikes but very little about fast cars, so:-

What is the diff between STi & WRX Imprezza's and how do they compare to Evo's???

Are the R reg plate cars reliable? Ive got a company car for the last 13yrs (renewed every 3yrs) so im kinda out of sync with the whole servicing/MOT car scene.

Any advice as to what to look for/pitfalls and best deals/dealers in the northwest/cheshire area would be well appreciated.

Also, Insurance - ive got the maximum NCB from my companies Insurer - who do i approach for quotes?

many thanks - hopefully soon to be converted biker!!

[Ved]

redduke848 said:

Hi

Hello!

redduke848 said:

Im trading my Ducati 848 superbike in for a performance car......bikes are too selfish & the missus doesnt like clinging on for dear life LOL

Im looking to spend upto £6000 max on a car of the above & ive looked on the classified section for deals etc.....

Basically, i know bikes but very little about fast cars, so:-

What is the diff between STi & WRX Imprezza's and how do they compare to Evo's???

Generally a Subaru is more of a daily car and an Evo is a more focused drive so more of a weekender. You won't get a very good Evo6 for 6k but a decent V might be in that group although picking the wrong one will mean big bills. My advice is to buy from the Lancer Register owners club so you have a trail of what the owner has done and previously posted up. For the Subaru you're looking at something like a bugeye STI like http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1713827.htm which is a low mileage clean car for exactly what you're looking to spend. The STI is very much on par with the Evos for road driving and easier and a bit cheaper to own. MPG for both will be mid 20s. For Imprezas you should look at ScoobyNet or SIDC for owners clubs, advice

redduke848 said:

Are the R reg plate cars reliable? Ive got a company car for the last 13yrs (renewed every 3yrs) so im kinda out of sync with the whole servicing/MOT car scene.

Yes but only get something with full history, same as buying a hot bike.

redduke848 said:

Any advice as to what to look for/pitfalls and best deals/dealers in the northwest/cheshire area would be well appreciated.

Don't buy anything without full history. Doesn't have to be main dealer but a reputable place, more of which you can find out from owners clubs. Usual checks like checking the oil is good, no clunking noises when driving it etc There are lots of buyers guides on both owners clubs i mentioned too. One thing I like to do is ask the owner to take me for a drive. If he drives like a knob or doesn't let the engine warm up you can only imagine how badly it gets abused when he's not with passenger.

redduke848 said:

Also, Insurance - ive got the maximum NCB from my companies Insurer - who do i approach for quotes?

With my STI I was insured by GreenLight but Aon, Keith Michaels, Adrian Flux will all insure you. I've 32 with full NCB in a decent area and I paid £780 on a 2007 STI.

redduke848 said:

many thanks - hopefully soon to be converted biker!!

BURN THE BIKE


David

[Wadeski]

What narrowed you down to a Subaru or Evo so quickly? Do you need four doors?

[redduke848]

Yeah Four Doors so that i can take the little un out too!!

[rb5230]

so are you thinking of a bug eye impreza or a classic? The classics are lighter, more compact and rawer. For your budget you could get a nice v5 or v6 sti or even a type-r or ra, you are not far off affording a p1 if you wanted a uk car or perhaps an rb5. All these cars should be serviced every 7500miles or 6months but it is just an oil and filters change and then the cambelt i believe needs doing every 4 years so make sure it has been done as coupled with tensioners and a full service from a reputable specialist you will be looking at about £700.

Brakes can be a bit expensive so take this into account when buying a car. They really are great cars and as said you want full service history with in excess of 20 stamps in the book. The evos are great cars too but servicing intervals are every 4500miles but again this is just an oil service. Buy either on condition and proper service history, i went to look at about 10 cars advertised as mint and fsh before finding one that actually was pretty mint and had the full amount of stamps in the book, so many people and dealers seem to think that 10stamps represents fsh but no that is only half history. Try and buy from an enthusiast as they will usually know how to look after a car properly.

Edited by rb5230 on Wednesday 30th June 12:48

[Ved]

Forgot about an RB5. They can be had for pennies now but there are no better classic UK Imprezas

[rb5230]

Ved said:

Forgot about an RB5. They can be had for pennies now but there are no better classic UK Imprezas

well how i read your statement was "they are no better than classic uk imprezas" (even though they are a classic uk impreza just like the p1, turbo 2000 and terzo etc), although you have actually written "there are no better classic uk imprezas" which is actually very accurate.

but i am assuming what you meant to say was "they are no better than a classic uk impreza turbo 2000", but you were having a problem saying it.

well assuming that is what you meant as you started with "forget about an RB5" then really? well lets talk about that. had for pennies? a good one will be costing £5k -£7k, find me a lowish mileage unmodified one in good condition with history for less than that, you wont.

no better than a uk impreza? well they were rated by all magazines as pretty superior (rated above the p1 in evos 100 greatest ever drivers cars at number 13 of the 100) http://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/239701/100_...

even though they are basically specced as a 2000 turbo with the exception of: the 17 inch wheels (which apparently make a huge difference), a solid bulkhead behind the rear seats which do not fold down, a unique to uk models steel blue colour, a limited batch of 444, sti bumper spats, along with the much nicer cloth and alcantara interior, then you get to the ppp wr sport pack which half of them ended up getting fitted which was prodrive ecu, prodrive exhaust, unique prodrive rear wing and driving light covers, wr sport clocks and intercooler hosing, this pack was fitted to very few 2000 turbos try finding one and even then it will be very expensive. then there is the way it feels much more special then a uk2000 turbo and if maintained well is a car that will never suffer any depreciation. if all that lot is not worth a £1000 or so premium over a standard uk turbo 2000 then i really dont know what is.



no better than a standard 2000 turbo? please.

[Ved]

Nope I meant what I said.
I forgot (past tense) about the RB5 and there are no better UK Classic Imprezas (than the RB5) So, dismount, I'm 100% on your side mate. I love em to bits mate and have a RBF membership to prove it. RB320 for me next

Edited by Ved on Wednesday 30th June 17:13

[rb5230]

Ved said:

Nope I meant what I said.



I forgot (past tense) about the RB5 and there are no better UK Classic Imprezas (than the RB5) So, dismount, I'm 100% on your side mate. I love em to bits mate and have a RBF membership to prove it. RB320 for me next

Edited by Ved on Wednesday 30th June 17:13

haha, using my phone i misread forgot as forget. sorry, what an idiot, getting defensive when really its a car that doesnt need defending. now wheres that delete button.

Edited by rb5230 on Wednesday 30th June 20:12

[Ved]

No harm, no foul.

I'd actually be very interested in one of these. Seems we're a household which needs something RWD and something AWD so now it's a Eunos and a V6 Golf but I can see that RB getting ever closer and dont' know which one to trade in. How's the RB5 for ownership and general troubles?

[rb5230]

Ved said:

No harm, no foul.

I'd actually be very interested in one of these. Seems we're a household which needs something RWD and something AWD so now it's a Eunos and a V6 Golf but I can see that RB getting ever closer and dont' know which one to trade in. How's the RB5 for ownership and general troubles?

well i have only owned it 9 months and use it as a 2nd car, but since then all i have had to do is uprated discs and pads all round which i knew were needed when i bought the car, they cost me about £300 in total fitted, other than that just a £100 oil service. absolutely not 1 thing has gone wrong so far, unlike 2 of my friends v6 4motion golfs

[300bhp/ton]

redduke848 said:

Hi

Im trading my Ducati 848 superbike in for a performance car......bikes are too selfish & the missus doesnt like clinging on for dear life LOL

Im looking to spend upto £6000 max on a car of the above & ive looked on the classified section for deals etc.....

Basically, i know bikes but very little about fast cars, so:-

What is the diff between STi & WRX Imprezza's and how do they compare to Evo's???

Are the R reg plate cars reliable? Ive got a company car for the last 13yrs (renewed every 3yrs) so im kinda out of sync with the whole servicing/MOT car scene.

Any advice as to what to look for/pitfalls and best deals/dealers in the northwest/cheshire area would be well appreciated.

Also, Insurance - ive got the maximum NCB from my companies Insurer - who do i approach for quotes?

many thanks - hopefully soon to be converted biker!!

Impreza's are tricky because of all the model variants. But it goes a bit like this:

Classis Impreza
	UK	JDM
	Turbo 2000 (208 or 215hp and 237hp with Prodrive upgrades	WRX (usually more power and more options, 240-280PS)
	-	WRX Tyre RA (4 door for rally holomigation, had DCCD)
	-	WRX STI (very different car to a WRX, different engine, turbo, gearbox, brakes. Much more on par with an Evo. Rated at 280PS/276hp, but make more like 300hp due to gentlemens agreement not to advertise more)
	-	WRX STI Type R (2 door for rally holomigation. had DCCD (driver controlled centre diff)
	-	WRX STI Type RA (4 door for rally holomigation. had DCCD (driver controlled centre diff)

As a rule all JDM cars are better and usually cheaper.

Turbo 2000/WRX are good cars, but are base model entrants. And IMO is a waste to modify unless you have huge money to throw at them. All UK versions such a RB5 are based on the Turbo 2000. The P1 is a bit of a mix, it has the 2 door Type R bodyshell with an STI motor, but part turbo 2000 running gear. They also sell for silly money when a JDM Type R is still a better car and cheaper.

The STI is a much better starter platform and a lot stronger performer. This is the one to buy as it's quicker stock than most modded WRX's or Turbo 2000's and has more scope to mod further.

In 2001 the classic shape was replaced with the "bug eye". These are heavier by 100-200kg although have a stiffer chassis. They have the same power as a Turbo 2000 but taller gearing and are badged in the UK as WRX. They underperform compared to the older Turbo 2000. There were various hotter UK versions, but most JDM's are still a better bet. From here they went blob eye and hawk eye, but all very much a similar car.


Evo's I'm not so sure on. From what I can tell they are more raw and focused off the shelf and compare with the Type R/RA STI rather than the lower spec Impreza's. Think you should probably drive both and see what appeals more.

HTH

[allsop83]

Forget the P1 and Type-R's as you are looking for a 4 door car.

If you can get hold of a JDM STI Bugeye within your budget then that's the one I would go for. More refined, comfortable and a stronger engine as standard than any classic.

I have a P1 and a Catalunya (5 door UK), previously owned a 22B and am a very active member of the local Subaru scene......I love the classics!

but....if I were to buy one to cart round the young ones etc. or to take family trips it would have to be a newage model for me. Luckily for me though I don't need to worry about that as I keep them exclusively for weekend play things!

Good luck in your search, and if you find a good one I'm sure you won't be dissapointed- very capable and fun daily drives!

[rb5230]

allsop83 said:

I have a Catalunya (5 door UK)

you mean 4 door.

i have not seen any evidence of bugeye engines being more reliable than the classics, but then prehpas you know something i dont. although they are obviously more refined and therefore better for long journeys and safer cars to transport kids in, but then slower and not as fun.

[ScoobieWRX]

rb5230 said:

allsop83 said:

I have a Catalunya (5 door UK)

you mean 4 door.

i have not seen any evidence of bugeye engines being more reliable than the classics, but then prehpas you know something i dont. although they are obviously more refined and therefore better for long journeys and safer cars to transport kids in, but then slower and not as fun.

Newage 2Ltr STi will take 500bhp with standard internals (living on borrowed time no doubt but some have i understand run that sort of power long term with no problems,) and will run 400+ all day long without a whimper....more of a burble actually. The 6spd boxes are pretty much bullet proof.

Newage WRX engines will take 320-330bhp all day long, similar to a well maintained classic engine but newage 5spd boxes are stronger than classic 5spd so in the grand scheme of things mechanically the newage should be more reliable. I'm putting about 360-370ftlb torque through a 5spd now and it's holding up just fine. My last newage box died at 84K miles after 50K miles of high torque abuse so i was fairly pleased about that. suffice to say i replaced it with another 5spd as it's so much nicer to use every day.

How much reliability would you like sir?

[GravelBen]

300bhp/ton said:

Impreza's are tricky because of all the model variants. But it goes a bit like this:

Small correction to your table - while the WRX-RA does have the lightweight shell, it doesn't have DCCD. Also just has the WRX motor rather than stronger STi motor, but you do see quite a few sellers trying to pass off WRX-RAs as STi-RAs.

[allsop83]

Yes, meant 4 door :P Blame the fat fingers......haha.

I do have a document somewhere explaining the difference in the Classic vs Newage engine specifications but it is very technical and basically boils down to what ScoobieWRX has said.

[Hol]

If you shop around you can find the odd 2003 Blobeye STI for the £7k mark.
No better ride than the Bugeye (2001-2002), but it looks nicer on the outside.

I disagree with a few of the comments made, but ive only ever had modified JDM Impreza's since 2001, so Im probably a bit biased against UK cars as a result.

As with all cars, take your time and test drive a number over different surfaces to make sure you are happy with the driving 'feel'.

Good luck.
Andy

[goldblum]

Impreza's an easier day to day car,an Evo goes round corners slightly quicker.

[Nav78]

I'd suggest a classic - the lighter the better a sti ra being the best choice of if you want raw performance in a practical everyday car. If used as a tuning project the mechanicals would need more strengthening than those in a new age Impreza but the power to weight ratio you would end up with is more than worth it, just be careful that it's not rusted through.