RX-8 Questions

[ol]

I'm in the market for a new car, looking to spend around £5 - £6,000 and looking for something a bit different.

I have always had German cars (except company cars forced upon me) but lately I have been taken with the RX-8.

Since I've never driven a Mazda before, and don't know anyone who owns one, yesterday I went to the local Mazda dealership and test drove a 56 plate RX-8 231 model. I was actually really impressed with it, even though the salesman wouldn't let me rev it over 6k it felt solid on the road and accelerated well.

So I just thought I'd ask a couple of questions to the PH massive before I took the plunge:


- Are they in the £400 p/a tax band (i'd be looking at a pre2005 model I think) or will they be in the future?

- How is it best to drive to achieve the higher mpg? Something I read said to keep the revs up for best economy?!

- Is 300 miles on a tank really that had to achieve?

- What are insurance / servicing costs like?

- Does the 193 feel much more underpowered than the 231? (I read the low power version has more torque)


I'm going to an auction within the next week that has a few RX-8's, and I am seriously thinking about getting one. The other cars that I'm looking at are mk5 Golf TDI, Imprezas or BMW 3 series (which I've has for the last few years)

I do lots of motorway driving, but live about 30 miles from the motorway (all nice twisty country roads).

Any advice or comments would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[anonymous-user]

Dito the same.. They look really good cars and sound nice when going past at full chat..like a bike...

Would be good if the higher you rev the better the MPG..will have to see what people say.

[ol]

It was something to do with the power band, and the engine using more fuel and effort at lower revs... I have been reading up on them constantly for the past few days though so I cant remember where I saw it.

[mjrc]

thinking economy? dont think rx8. altough i do get 300 miles++ on my impreza on long journeys. it is a looker, the rx8.

[cocopop]

RX8s aren't too bad on fuel, they're not any worse than Imprezas, 300 miles on a tank will depend on where you do the 300 miles. Obviously not if it's stop-start traffic. They will be in the £400 tax band, but hey ho, got to make some sacrifices.

I've never heard of using the higher revs being more economical, and it doesn't sound very genuine, but I may be wrong. A quick google brings up nowt, so I'd be sceptical. It definetly doesn't help with my 7.

Servicing is no more expensive than other cars, plenty of decent specialists around, and Mazda approved places are a pleasure to deal with IME. 3k mile oil change intervals, and keep an eye on the levels regularly. I'm not so sure on insurance, but I can't see it being more than an Impreza.

[buckman63]

ol said:

- How is it best to drive to achieve the higher mpg? Something I read said to keep the revs up for best economy?!

Only if it were true !! . I owned an RX8 from new for over 2 years and the principles for fuel saving are the same for that car as it is for any other car. Regular servicing, no hard acceleration / heaving braking and slower speeds will reward you with lower fuel consumption, in the RX8's case somewhere in the upper 20's. Drive it as it was designed to be driven and you will get lower to sub 20's, realy no different to a number of other sportscars.

Buy one, they are great, and very very very cheap at the mo!

[mjrc]

cocopop said:

keep an eye on the levels regularly

regularly in the rx8/rx7 means everyday (oil)

Edited by mjrc on Tuesday 30th December 16:14

[buckman63]

mjrc said:

cocopop said:

keep an eye on the levels regularly

regularly in the rx8/rx7 means everyday (oil)

Edited by mjrc on Tuesday 30th December 16:14

Sorry, that,s rubbish. Standard check on RX8's is every second fill ( 600 miles ish ), and my current RX7 I check every week ( 100 miles ish ). If yours leaks or burns a lot then daily is fine for you.

[RobDickinson]

mjrc said:

cocopop said:

keep an eye on the levels regularly

regularly in the rx8/rx7 means everyday (oil)

For me it meant checking every 1000 miles and toping up every 1500-2000 or so, apart from on track.


"- How is it best to drive to achieve the higher mpg? Something I read said to keep the revs up for best economy?!"

Very light throttle mid rev range I think, though TBH it didnt realy make that much difference how I drove, I couldnt improve the milae by more than 15% or so being carefull and IMO why bother, its going to suck whichever.

"- Is 300 miles on a tank really that had to achieve?"
In 37,000miles and actualy trying once or twice I think I could have got to 300 had I risked a breakdown (or if I had a can or two of petrol in the boot). Highest I had was 275ish. I dont think I had one that was all that ecconomical as they go, many people on the owners club have acheived 300miles on a tank.

"- What are insurance / servicing costs like?"
Group 16 was cheap for the type of car, servicing at a mazda dealer was cheap as chips.

"- Does the 193 feel much more underpowered than the 231? (I read the low power version has more torque)"
Never drove one but the 190 only has a touch more torque at the engine and is 5 speed so the 230 actualy has bags more torque at the wheels due to gearing, all the time.


I LOVED mine, yes its expensive to fuel but then it drinks the cheaper stuff and ther est of it is reliable and cheap (for the type).

[cocopop]

mjrc said:

cocopop said:

keep an eye on the levels regularly

regularly in the rx8/rx7 means everyday (oil)

Edited by mjrc on Tuesday 30th December 16:14

Have you ever actually owned a rotary engined car? It's just you seem to know quite a bit about them, and your profile lists nothing with a rotary. Perhaps go and have a chat with the guys on one of the owners clubs, I'm sure they'll put you right.

[Rotorspeed]

My RX8 hardly uses oil, don't listen to the wives tales.I've used 1 litre in nearly 2 month of daily driving, they use oil to lube the engine.Not bad IMO.

http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/

It's all good

Edited by Rotorspeed on Wednesday 31st December 11:37

[System-G]

ol said:

- Are they in the £400 p/a tax band (i'd be looking at a pre2005 model I think) or will they be in the future?

They will be when the new tax laws come in, but they have been postponed due to recession

ol said:

- How is it best to drive to achieve the higher mpg? Something I read said to keep the revs up for best economy?!

You won't notice too much difference in MPG between gentle driving and hooning it. The previous owner of ours (we've known them well for a number of years) reckoned about 2mpg less when hooning it.

ol said:

- Is 300 miles on a tank really that had to achieve?

We're yet to acheive this. 230miles is best so far, but it's mostly stop/go with a couple of 30 mile motorway runs.

ol said:

- What are insurance / servicing costs like?[quote] Insurance group 16. We're covered fully comp with my wife on 9 points and me on 3, a recent claim (write-off due to fire which expensed this car), the car parked out front for less than £600. Servicing - don't know yet as ours had a full service and going over just before buying it.

ol said:

- Does the 193 feel much more underpowered than the 231? (I read the low power version has more torque)

not sure, not driven the 193

---

We picked our 231 up last week just before xmas. 1 previous owner 46k on the clock (when we agreed sale, much more since ), heated leather, all bells & whistles except sunroof, FMSH, never modded etc... £5k on the head

Absolutely awesome cars.

The chassis is really responsive and the car feels very planted even when pushed through the twisties. The engine pulls very strong and just keeps pulling right to the limiter. It's feels quite strange as there's no variable valve timing and therefore no "boost" at certain rpm etc... just smooth constant pulling. You also get fgood feedback through the steering. Brakes are awesome too. So far I don't feel the need to upgrade anything.

HTH

[ol]

Thanks very much to you all for the helpful replies.

So far I can't see any downsides to owning the car aside from the mpg. I've been in diesels for the past few years, so i'm sure the mpg will make me feel a bit sick, however I want to move towards a sports car, and the RX8 seems to tick all the boxes.

The only other thing I'd consider at the moment is a Mk5 Golf GT TDI. Since they are about to launch the Mk6, Mk5 prices are likely to drop over the next 6 months, whereas I think the RX8 will hold steady (plus the RX-8 facelift model is already out). I'd be forever kicking myself if I went for the sensible (Golf) option over following my heart and going with the Mazda, plus the Golf if FWD which I don't really want.

I didn't really like the RX8 a week ago, but test driving one really surprised me!

I'm going to get one from auction, so fingers crossed it'll be the 230 with leather etc, but you never can be sure! I think for about £5500 I should be able to pick one up.

Cheers for all your advice, and if anyone has anything else to throw in I'm still interested in hearing about individuals opinions about living day to day with one.

Thanks again and I will post photos up if I do take the plunge next week!

[Pui]

Sorry this is such a long post! lol

I've come from a e46 320D to my RX8 232ps and I soooo forgot how much I missed the sound (and lack of smell) that comes with a petrol I was the same as you though, I hadn't even considered one til i drove past a garage which had one in and I was smitten in an instant! That was the Sunday and I'd bought it by the Wednesday and picked it up on the Friday!

Are you looking for something which will give you reasonable MPG? Your options are quite mixed TDi, Impreza and 3 Series (petrol or diesel?) and to be honest, if you are looking for a decent fuel economy then you're looking at the wrong car in the RX8. Even the Subaru will probably net you high 20's when you're not giving it the full berries but I get no where near that with my RX in mixed urban/suburban driving, although I've not really had it on a long motorway run yet. My best out of a tank is around 220 miles.

There is regular talk on the RX8OC that the engine should be kept around 3.5k rpm for best economy but I've not personally tried it as I'm used to sitting in high gear/low revs most of the time so often forget to leave it in the "sweet spot" the OC talks about.

Insurance, I don't think, is too bad. I'm 27, license for 10years, Zero No Claims (Always been named driver), No points or accidents and I paid about £650. Compared with other cars I looked at, at the time and it seems a great price, Impreza was £1700, Evo Tommi Mak' £2500, e46 330ci £1100 (all cars values at about £7-8k).

It's not the quickest car you can get for the money due to it's lack of torque in comparison to the competition (quite a few VAG TDi's will show it a clean pair of heels if you get caught napping) but it is a very rewarding drive, and a lovely balanced car.

As said before, the whole oil consumption/rebuild thing is a lot of exaggeration. There have been a few failed engines but most, if not all, have been replaced by Mazda, some even outside of the warranty period if the car's got a full Mazda history. As for the oil, mine uses around a litre for every 12-1500 miles, which I don't think is particularly bad for what is a sports/performance car with a specialised engine (I'm sure I read somewhere that Audi states that 1ltr/1000miles should be expected from the S/RS models). The best way to deal with it is to check it every fill or 2nd fill for the first couple of months, by then you should have a rough idea of how much it uses so you can have an inkling when it should need checking.

Checking the oil is a bit of a pain though, Mazda positioned the dipstick at the back and towards the centre-line of the engine so it takes a bit of leaning to get it in and out, and a torch if it's remotely dark outside lol.

Flooding the engine should be the biggest worry. Touch wood, I've not done it yet, but if you move the car and shut it off and leave when the engines still cold (eg. moving off the drive to let a car out in the morning) it will flood and can be tricky to clear and get going again. There are methods detailed in the manual and Mazda Assist will help I believe, but the best way is to remember to give it a quick run til the temp gauge gets up a few notches. I don't think it's a problem if you just stalled and restart the car, I believe it's just if you stop the cold engine and leave it sitting til later.

I'd recommend looking at the uk rx8oc, it's a shame you have to pay to join (although you can recoup the cost with oil/dealer discounts, etc) as it's not a particuarly exciting/active place but it is filled with good info and very knowledgeable members

Would I recommend the car? Yes, if you want a fun, cheapish, 4 seat coupe then I wouldn't hesitate.

I fancied an e46 coupe but having had a saloon for a few years I fancied something different but didn't want the laziness of something like a CLK. If you don't need the back seats or decent boot then how about a 350Z? The size of the RX's boot is fine, i've done a couple of cash and carry runs for the restaurant in it, but the opening is a bit awkward so you can't really squeeze anything large through it.

Edited by Pui on Wednesday 31st December 17:41

Edited by Pui on Wednesday 31st December 17:43

[Pui]

I've just remembered this and could've put this in my last post but it's worth noting by itself if you're going to view any examples.

If you check the oil on a potential vehicle and there's white/grey foam or gunk (technical term is "emulsion") on the dipstick DON'T WORRY. The head gasket isn't gone (lol) or anything bad, it's a common thing on any cars which have been doing short journeys and, i think, it's just condensation which collects in the tube.

Could be a good bit of knowledge for you going to auction (assuming you get to luck under the bonnet, I've not bought from auctions before) or even in a private sale as anyone else who may've spotted this might be hugely put off bidding on a car which shows signs of this!

Edited by Pui on Wednesday 31st December 17:50

[ol]

Hi Pui, and I feel honoured that your first posts have been to help me out with such good information!

Very interesting reading, I had seen the information about the white gunk on the dipstick, but it's reassuring to hear it from an owner.

MPG isn't my biggest concern - I got the 320D as I was doing about 50k miles per year, however now i'm probably only doing 15,000. I am also aware how different the cars that I am considering actually are! The top two at the moment are the RX8 and the Golf GT TDI, which are both totally different types of car. The Golf impressed me as I both feel an affinity with VW, and the Torque of that engine is fantastic. Coupled with a re-map and a GTI front end, it would be a great car. I just feel that the RX8 is that little bit more special, and the VW interior is a bit bland.

I've phoned my insurance company, I'm 27, 9points (argh), 1 claim and it only came out at £650 p/a (£150 more than the BMW which was diesel and only 136bhp)

It's good that you came from a 320D also, what do you miss from the BMW and what advantages did you find the RX8 had over it? eg the seats in the BMW looked terrible but were really comfy on long journeys - I could do 12hrs driving and not have backache. The RX8 seats felt really nice but I was only in them for 20 mins.

[parc77]

Hi, As PUI has said there RX8 has some quirks...as does every car, I have the 192 version and am happy with it, although I did have to have the cat replaced recently, thankfully it was covered by the AA warranty that came with the car, Mazda might charge you a small fortune for one but a sports cat or aftermarket standard one can be purchased cheaper and fitted at a better price at a local garage.

Many on the OC forum will tell you that there isnt a huge differnce between the 231 and 192, they are both great cars, the 192 has fractionally better MPG and is an insurance group lower. I simply went for mine as it had leather 1 owner, right colour, right mileage, FSH, un-kerbed alloys and the AA warranty and a good part exchange.

Ive not managed to flood mine yet but Mazda themselves did.

The 231 is obviously quicker in a straight line and id recommend either...
231 0-60mph 6.4secs top speed 146mph
192 0-60mph 7.2secs top speed 139mph

One thing worth checking is that the car has had all the factory recalls done, oil cooler pipes rear wheel archs etc, check the OC or contact you local Mazda dealer and they will let you know.

Forgot to mention...on most of the threads about RX8's youll find somebody thats usually never owned one saying that the rotary engine needs a rebuild every 50k and that you have to check the oil every 5 miles etc etc... its a complete load of rubbish.

Best of luck

Edited by parc77 on Friday 2nd January 12:48

[System-G]

One of the little quirks you'll find, but quickly get used to is the pedal position, they're set to one side. But you really don't notice this much after driving it for a bit.

Just one of "them things" though

Edited by System-G on Friday 2nd January 12:19

[Pui]

What do i miss?
I do miss the long distance comfort too, although I've not done any lengthy drives in the rx8 yet 60/90mins sometimes in traffic is as much as I've had to do so far. That being said, I do find the rx seats quite comfortable. They're nice, firm and supportive and not narrow like some cars sports seats are. I find it more comfortable than the RX300 I drive too which has huge soft armchair type things.

I sometimes miss being able to go 500miles between fill ups. To be honest, the fuel economy doesn't bother me, especially at the current prices, I just wish that the range was better :-) lol, a bigger tank would be great! Both are saloon bodies with non-folding seats so weren't exactly load luggers but the lack of a rear bench means you can't really used the back seats to stick anything large on, TV, flat pack etc.

Other than that I don't miss much, the bmw handled almost as well but it just wasn't as sprightly. It's nice having the TD torque but it often got a bit dull with it's narrow power band. The delivery in the RX is a very odd sensation, there's no sudden surge of torque so acceleration is very very smooth, to the point you find you've reached a surprising speed and wondering how you got there!

I certainly don't miss the attitude of other drivers towards me, as a bmw driver. Ignorance at junctions, refusal to pull over for overtaking, refusal to let you filter in (It's my opinion that if there is a filter lane, cars should use it. I don't see the point of having a 30 car tailback in one lane when common sense says it could be spread between two!) and general arsiness if you dare do anything which they, as perfect drivers, don't agree with. On the other hand, everyone loves the RX, kids, grown ups, men, women. I've lost count of the number of people who've approached me and told me how nice a colour it is (winning blue) and people are still shocked and smile when you open the rear doors!

It is genuinely roomy too, since getting it I've driven it a few times full up with the lads in, all four of us are around 5'11"-6'3"ish and 2 of use are fairly large build, I'm 15st7.

Other than the way it drives, there's not really any advantages for the RX8 over the BMW. For me, the RX8 was a car bought purely out of desire rather than necessity as I still had/have the RX300 which was more than enough for my needs.

[Pierscoe1]

RX8 owners / drivers, keep 'em coming... more info/opinions/etc greatly recieved.

I'm really quite tempted by one, and they seem rediculously good value at the moment...
I'd really be after a 350Z, but when they're ~£12k for a decent UK car, the RX8 is HALF the price.. can't argue with that!

I've had the briefest of drives in one at one of the Mazda Zoom-Zoom days (where you get to do a couple of laps of a coned course in an RX8 and mk3 MX5), and really liked it..

the interior seemed a very nice place to while away the hours, it went and felt better to drive than the mk3 MX5 I thought.. and as someone said above, is a 4-seat coupe, with all the bells & whistles...

very tempted, but would feel like I'd robbed someone blind at the prices they go for now... I'm sure the guilt would pass