N57 Bottom End Problems?
Discussion
Guys
I've decided to conduct a little survey. I know from previous posting (mainly on other forums) that multiple members with N57 engines have suffered from bottom end failure.
If anyone on here as been unfortunate enough to have this happen to them, please share the mileage at which it occurred.
I'm compiling the answers and will present the results in a chart form. (I'm asking the same question in a few other groups as well).
Can you reply using this format please.
Year vehicle made:
Vehicle: (i.e F30 335D)
Mileage:
Number of Turbos:
Stock or mapped:
Many thanks for your help with this.
Kind regards to all
Ian
I've decided to conduct a little survey. I know from previous posting (mainly on other forums) that multiple members with N57 engines have suffered from bottom end failure.
If anyone on here as been unfortunate enough to have this happen to them, please share the mileage at which it occurred.
I'm compiling the answers and will present the results in a chart form. (I'm asking the same question in a few other groups as well).
Can you reply using this format please.
Year vehicle made:
Vehicle: (i.e F30 335D)
Mileage:
Number of Turbos:
Stock or mapped:
Many thanks for your help with this.
Kind regards to all
Ian
I can add to this…..
Car – 2015 435d Xdrive
Mileage 111,125 when fixed (I think…)
Oil type/changes before i bought it? - no idea. I've had it 14 months.
Symptom – increasingly serious rattle on start up. Googling indicated timing chain issues, which are at the BACK of the engine – well done BMW…
Contact made with a suitable garage. Car went to be fixed to BM Mini Tech in Colchester Oct 27 – so just 2.5-ish weeks ago.
They do a BMW/Mini timing chain a day, every day, and have done for 5 years. I couldn’t believe they had the engine out (see photos) AND the crank, AND back in again, AND running fine - in a day. That’s a massive amount of work. They have all the tools ready to go on the bench. They have done dealer work when the dealers are overloaded. I've heard of this for other manufacturers and models. This is quoted as 3-day job at a dealers.
They do a 6-cylinder twin turbo timing chain a week. They do a full bottom end and timing chain every 3 weeks.
All parts are BMW if possible. They have been caught out in the past.
They are the largest buyers of OEM BMW timing chain kits in the UK, this includes the dealer network!
The 2 main guys are ex dealer mechanics.
Trends
Usually the work is diesels, but increasing amounts of petrols coming through, especially twin turbos.
No difference between 4 cylinder and 6-cylinder engines as for numbers. One would need to know how many were sold to trend spot in reality.
BIG difference between 6-cylinder single turbo and twin turbos. Twin turbos FAR more likely to fail.
It’s the number 1 bearing that usually goes first. This is furthest from the oil pump along the main bearing gallery feed.
It is STRONGLY suspected its related to the stop start functionality, and the BM Mini Tech owner thinks there was so much emphasis on looking after the turbos for the stop start, they forgot about the crank. I can see this happening, now it’s been explained! Whether it’s the case or not – who knows? Maybe something else at work. They were expecting huge amounts of starter replacements to come though when it happened. But nothing, they never change a starter. It is possible to disable the stop start being switched on at every ignition sequence, and it can be done, but it isn’t done via I-Drive settings. More serious kit required.
All parts are BMW, or what BMW use anyway, like Elring seals, apart from the engine bearings. They use King bearings. And they haven’t had a failure yet. They refuse to fit BMW engine bearings.
If the main bearings spin in the block, it’s the engine block written off, in reality, the short engine. This is a £10k bill… it usually writes the car off. If one was keen in the workshop, and can rebuild an engine -then a 335/435/535 with a blown engine could be cheap-ish fix.
As stated, they reckoned mine was about 1000-1500 miles away from failure.
8,000-mile oil change intervals, preferably 6,000
2-year guarantee with the work
Usual running in procedure applies max rpm = 2250 (which is over 100 in 8th!)
Full oil change at 1000-1500 miles
£3750 as near as dammit.
The engine is so smooth and quiet -it’s incredible. Anyone thinking of a 6-cylinder twin turbo, and its cheap – now you know why. And mine wasn’t THAT cheap.
They think that BMW cost cutting means that what lasted 150-200,000 miles now doesn’t and it’s a 100,000.
we all like pictures....
Car – 2015 435d Xdrive
Mileage 111,125 when fixed (I think…)
Oil type/changes before i bought it? - no idea. I've had it 14 months.
Symptom – increasingly serious rattle on start up. Googling indicated timing chain issues, which are at the BACK of the engine – well done BMW…
Contact made with a suitable garage. Car went to be fixed to BM Mini Tech in Colchester Oct 27 – so just 2.5-ish weeks ago.
They do a BMW/Mini timing chain a day, every day, and have done for 5 years. I couldn’t believe they had the engine out (see photos) AND the crank, AND back in again, AND running fine - in a day. That’s a massive amount of work. They have all the tools ready to go on the bench. They have done dealer work when the dealers are overloaded. I've heard of this for other manufacturers and models. This is quoted as 3-day job at a dealers.
They do a 6-cylinder twin turbo timing chain a week. They do a full bottom end and timing chain every 3 weeks.
All parts are BMW if possible. They have been caught out in the past.
They are the largest buyers of OEM BMW timing chain kits in the UK, this includes the dealer network!
The 2 main guys are ex dealer mechanics.
Trends
Usually the work is diesels, but increasing amounts of petrols coming through, especially twin turbos.
No difference between 4 cylinder and 6-cylinder engines as for numbers. One would need to know how many were sold to trend spot in reality.
BIG difference between 6-cylinder single turbo and twin turbos. Twin turbos FAR more likely to fail.
It’s the number 1 bearing that usually goes first. This is furthest from the oil pump along the main bearing gallery feed.
It is STRONGLY suspected its related to the stop start functionality, and the BM Mini Tech owner thinks there was so much emphasis on looking after the turbos for the stop start, they forgot about the crank. I can see this happening, now it’s been explained! Whether it’s the case or not – who knows? Maybe something else at work. They were expecting huge amounts of starter replacements to come though when it happened. But nothing, they never change a starter. It is possible to disable the stop start being switched on at every ignition sequence, and it can be done, but it isn’t done via I-Drive settings. More serious kit required.
All parts are BMW, or what BMW use anyway, like Elring seals, apart from the engine bearings. They use King bearings. And they haven’t had a failure yet. They refuse to fit BMW engine bearings.
If the main bearings spin in the block, it’s the engine block written off, in reality, the short engine. This is a £10k bill… it usually writes the car off. If one was keen in the workshop, and can rebuild an engine -then a 335/435/535 with a blown engine could be cheap-ish fix.
As stated, they reckoned mine was about 1000-1500 miles away from failure.
8,000-mile oil change intervals, preferably 6,000
2-year guarantee with the work
Usual running in procedure applies max rpm = 2250 (which is over 100 in 8th!)
Full oil change at 1000-1500 miles
£3750 as near as dammit.
The engine is so smooth and quiet -it’s incredible. Anyone thinking of a 6-cylinder twin turbo, and its cheap – now you know why. And mine wasn’t THAT cheap.
They think that BMW cost cutting means that what lasted 150-200,000 miles now doesn’t and it’s a 100,000.
we all like pictures....
For what purpose is the survey?
Anyway, my own contribution:
2016 330d
95K miles (owned since 30K)
Turbos = 1
Oil usage = none
Oil change interval = every 3K with Fuchs GT1 Flex3 5W40 LL04.
Daily mileage = 80
Start/Stop disabled since 30K
Zero upper chain wear (checked with Laser 7034 tool)
Lower chain wear = unknown, but zero oil pressure issues.
Fuel/soot dilution = minimal to none. 6.5 litres comes out every oil change.
Engine ECU state = Remapped via E-maps.
It drives like new still - because it's been maintained extremely well and driven with mechanical sympathy. As always, it's 90% owner treatment, 10% design/material defects.
Anyway, my own contribution:
2016 330d
95K miles (owned since 30K)
Turbos = 1
Oil usage = none
Oil change interval = every 3K with Fuchs GT1 Flex3 5W40 LL04.
Daily mileage = 80
Start/Stop disabled since 30K
Zero upper chain wear (checked with Laser 7034 tool)
Lower chain wear = unknown, but zero oil pressure issues.
Fuel/soot dilution = minimal to none. 6.5 litres comes out every oil change.
Engine ECU state = Remapped via E-maps.
It drives like new still - because it's been maintained extremely well and driven with mechanical sympathy. As always, it's 90% owner treatment, 10% design/material defects.
bucksmanuk said:
I can add to this ..
Symptom increasingly serious rattle on start up. Googling indicated timing chain issues, which are at the BACK of the engine well done BMW
There is good reason for installing the chain gear at the end of the engine with the heaviest rotating mass. And you can also congratulate Audi, Mercedes, Porsche and many other car brands for rear mounted chain gear. As you said, BM Mini-tech had it all done in a day, so its not like dropping the gearbox is a show stopper.Symptom increasingly serious rattle on start up. Googling indicated timing chain issues, which are at the BACK of the engine well done BMW
Edited by Cheddarbang on Thursday 20th November 12:11
Edited by Cheddarbang on Thursday 20th November 12:11
Year vehicle made: 2016
Vehicle: 335xD M-Sport Touring
Mileage: 54,000-ish
Number of Turbos: 2
Stock or mapped: stock
Other notes:
Vehicle: 335xD M-Sport Touring
Mileage: 54,000-ish
Number of Turbos: 2
Stock or mapped: stock
Other notes:
- no discernable oil usage between 6,000 mile oil changes
- stop/start disabled
- used for commuting, shopping, tip runs, Nurburgring/Germany visits, Welsh, Scottish, Peak District, Lake District and other weekend hoons
- daily milage anywhere from 10 miles to 600 miles in a trip (either the Liverpool > Plymouth > Ashford > overnight stop > chunnel > Nurburg; or Liverpool > Plymouth > overnight stop > Plymouth > Folkestone > Nurburg in one trip).
- happily sits at either 110-130kph for hours on speed restricted autoroutes/autobahns, and 230kph for 10 minute stints where possible on unrestricted autobahns; and then have some fun on the twistier roads in the Eifel region.
The bi and triple turbo engines probably break more than the single turbos because of the power delivery. The 30d doesn't hit the meat of it's power band until 2500rpm, by which point the car and the crank have a lot of momentum. One turbo also = less soot contamination.
The big boys slam in a lot more torque in, a lot sooner, when neither the car or the engine have much momentum, which strains the bearings and chain gear more. These engines also fail quicker than single turbos when remapped as the extra torque then starts stressing the piston crowns.
The extra heat from 2 or 3 turbos also kills off the cam cover gaskets faster than single turbo N57s as well. They always let go in the driver's side rear corner first. The gasket hardens and shrinks.
The big boys slam in a lot more torque in, a lot sooner, when neither the car or the engine have much momentum, which strains the bearings and chain gear more. These engines also fail quicker than single turbos when remapped as the extra torque then starts stressing the piston crowns.
The extra heat from 2 or 3 turbos also kills off the cam cover gaskets faster than single turbo N57s as well. They always let go in the driver's side rear corner first. The gasket hardens and shrinks.
ucb said:
Year vehicle made: Oct 2016
Vehicle: F11 530d
Mileage: 119000
Number of Turbos:0
Stock or mapped: Stock
50-150 miles daily
Pretty gentle when starting from cold and allow it to warm fully
Oil changes 15k miles
Gearbox fluids replaced 20k miles ago
It's number of turbos fitted, not how many times it/they have been replaced. Pretty sure a 2016 530d has a turbo.Vehicle: F11 530d
Mileage: 119000
Number of Turbos:0
Stock or mapped: Stock
50-150 miles daily
Pretty gentle when starting from cold and allow it to warm fully
Oil changes 15k miles
Gearbox fluids replaced 20k miles ago
Purchased my 530d last year, before my ownership it was typically serviced every 20k and was on 126k.
The car was standard when I purchased, but have made a few changes - mainly due to oil consumption.
The car was consuming around 1L of oil every 1,000 miles - this in turn I think meant the DPF was working overtime, it was dealing with it - but came to a point whereby I had a code for intake charge pressure deviation, I found the cause of this to be a small hole in the intake manifold elbow. At this point I decided to rid the engine of anything that could cause issues further down the line - EGR & DPF are gone, Cat left in place.
Probably not going to be able to resolve oil consumption as I believe this may be down to scored cylinder bores from a potential previous failed EGR cooler.
At the moment I'm in protect mode - essentially not wanting to open up the engine unless I absolutely need to.
There is the feintest sound of the "rhythmic" timing chain on idle - nothing compared to the likes of the N47 cars I previously used to drive.
Its not become any louder - in fact its probably become a little less apparent since I've owned it.
Now the DPF is off, I've moved to an oil of LL01 spec, as I'm led to believe the lubricity / longevity is better compared to an LL04 oil.
If it gets any worse I'll pull the motor and refresh the lot.
Year vehicle made: 2015
Vehicle: 530d
Mileage: 136k
Number of Turbos: 1
Stock or mapped: mapped
Oil consumption: 1L / 1000 miles
Servicing; 6,000 miles - Motul X-Cess 5-40
The car was standard when I purchased, but have made a few changes - mainly due to oil consumption.
The car was consuming around 1L of oil every 1,000 miles - this in turn I think meant the DPF was working overtime, it was dealing with it - but came to a point whereby I had a code for intake charge pressure deviation, I found the cause of this to be a small hole in the intake manifold elbow. At this point I decided to rid the engine of anything that could cause issues further down the line - EGR & DPF are gone, Cat left in place.
Probably not going to be able to resolve oil consumption as I believe this may be down to scored cylinder bores from a potential previous failed EGR cooler.
At the moment I'm in protect mode - essentially not wanting to open up the engine unless I absolutely need to.
There is the feintest sound of the "rhythmic" timing chain on idle - nothing compared to the likes of the N47 cars I previously used to drive.
Its not become any louder - in fact its probably become a little less apparent since I've owned it.
Now the DPF is off, I've moved to an oil of LL01 spec, as I'm led to believe the lubricity / longevity is better compared to an LL04 oil.
If it gets any worse I'll pull the motor and refresh the lot.
Year vehicle made: 2015
Vehicle: 530d
Mileage: 136k
Number of Turbos: 1
Stock or mapped: mapped
Oil consumption: 1L / 1000 miles
Servicing; 6,000 miles - Motul X-Cess 5-40
AlexGSi2000 said:
Purchased my 530d last year, before my ownership it was typically serviced every 20k and was on 126k.
The car was standard when I purchased, but have made a few changes - mainly due to oil consumption.
The car was consuming around 1L of oil every 1,000 miles - this in turn I think meant the DPF was working overtime, it was dealing with it - but came to a point whereby I had a code for intake charge pressure deviation, I found the cause of this to be a small hole in the intake manifold elbow. At this point I decided to rid the engine of anything that could cause issues further down the line - EGR & DPF are gone, Cat left in place.
Probably not going to be able to resolve oil consumption as I believe this may be down to scored cylinder bores from a potential previous failed EGR cooler.
At the moment I'm in protect mode - essentially not wanting to open up the engine unless I absolutely need to.
There is the feintest sound of the "rhythmic" timing chain on idle - nothing compared to the likes of the N47 cars I previously used to drive.
Its not become any louder - in fact its probably become a little less apparent since I've owned it.
Now the DPF is off, I've moved to an oil of LL01 spec, as I'm led to believe the lubricity / longevity is better compared to an LL04 oil.
If it gets any worse I'll pull the motor and refresh the lot.
Year vehicle made: 2015
Vehicle: 530d
Mileage: 136k
Number of Turbos: 1
Stock or mapped: mapped
Oil consumption: 1L / 1000 miles
Servicing; 6,000 miles - Motul X-Cess 5-40
Get the new chain tensioner installed if not already doneThe car was standard when I purchased, but have made a few changes - mainly due to oil consumption.
The car was consuming around 1L of oil every 1,000 miles - this in turn I think meant the DPF was working overtime, it was dealing with it - but came to a point whereby I had a code for intake charge pressure deviation, I found the cause of this to be a small hole in the intake manifold elbow. At this point I decided to rid the engine of anything that could cause issues further down the line - EGR & DPF are gone, Cat left in place.
Probably not going to be able to resolve oil consumption as I believe this may be down to scored cylinder bores from a potential previous failed EGR cooler.
At the moment I'm in protect mode - essentially not wanting to open up the engine unless I absolutely need to.
There is the feintest sound of the "rhythmic" timing chain on idle - nothing compared to the likes of the N47 cars I previously used to drive.
Its not become any louder - in fact its probably become a little less apparent since I've owned it.
Now the DPF is off, I've moved to an oil of LL01 spec, as I'm led to believe the lubricity / longevity is better compared to an LL04 oil.
If it gets any worse I'll pull the motor and refresh the lot.
Year vehicle made: 2015
Vehicle: 530d
Mileage: 136k
Number of Turbos: 1
Stock or mapped: mapped
Oil consumption: 1L / 1000 miles
Servicing; 6,000 miles - Motul X-Cess 5-40
BMW X5 F15 30d,
2014
Single turbo
Bottom end failure at 149k miles
Previous own on long life servicing. Last service had been done after 37k miles.
Full engine rebuild, bearings. 1 conrod replaced. Oversized bearings installed.
Currently being serviced every 6k miles.
Recently switched from 5w30 to 5w40 miller's XF
I bought the car needing an engine rebuild in 2023
For £9k rebuild cost £7200 so wasn't really a bargain for a High mileage car. Currently I let the car upto to temp and never driven hard.
2014
Single turbo
Bottom end failure at 149k miles
Previous own on long life servicing. Last service had been done after 37k miles.
Full engine rebuild, bearings. 1 conrod replaced. Oversized bearings installed.
Currently being serviced every 6k miles.
Recently switched from 5w30 to 5w40 miller's XF
I bought the car needing an engine rebuild in 2023
For £9k rebuild cost £7200 so wasn't really a bargain for a High mileage car. Currently I let the car upto to temp and never driven hard.
AlexGSi2000 said:
Purchased my 530d last year, before my ownership it was typically serviced every 20k and was on 126k.
The car was standard when I purchased, but have made a few changes - mainly due to oil consumption.
The car was consuming around 1L of oil every 1,000 miles - this in turn I think meant the DPF was working overtime, it was dealing with it - but came to a point whereby I had a code for intake charge pressure deviation, I found the cause of this to be a small hole in the intake manifold elbow. At this point I decided to rid the engine of anything that could cause issues further down the line - EGR & DPF are gone, Cat left in place.
Probably not going to be able to resolve oil consumption as I believe this may be down to scored cylinder bores from a potential previous failed EGR cooler.
At the moment I'm in protect mode - essentially not wanting to open up the engine unless I absolutely need to.
There is the feintest sound of the "rhythmic" timing chain on idle - nothing compared to the likes of the N47 cars I previously used to drive.
Its not become any louder - in fact its probably become a little less apparent since I've owned it.
Now the DPF is off, I've moved to an oil of LL01 spec, as I'm led to believe the lubricity / longevity is better compared to an LL04 oil.
If it gets any worse I'll pull the motor and refresh the lot.
Year vehicle made: 2015
Vehicle: 530d
Mileage: 136k
Number of Turbos: 1
Stock or mapped: mapped
Oil consumption: 1L / 1000 miles
Servicing; 6,000 miles - Motul X-Cess 5-40
You should stick to LL04 as it is specifically made to reduce oil consumption. LL01 is for clunky old petrol engines and won't improve matters for you, unless you run a 10W60 or something!The car was standard when I purchased, but have made a few changes - mainly due to oil consumption.
The car was consuming around 1L of oil every 1,000 miles - this in turn I think meant the DPF was working overtime, it was dealing with it - but came to a point whereby I had a code for intake charge pressure deviation, I found the cause of this to be a small hole in the intake manifold elbow. At this point I decided to rid the engine of anything that could cause issues further down the line - EGR & DPF are gone, Cat left in place.
Probably not going to be able to resolve oil consumption as I believe this may be down to scored cylinder bores from a potential previous failed EGR cooler.
At the moment I'm in protect mode - essentially not wanting to open up the engine unless I absolutely need to.
There is the feintest sound of the "rhythmic" timing chain on idle - nothing compared to the likes of the N47 cars I previously used to drive.
Its not become any louder - in fact its probably become a little less apparent since I've owned it.
Now the DPF is off, I've moved to an oil of LL01 spec, as I'm led to believe the lubricity / longevity is better compared to an LL04 oil.
If it gets any worse I'll pull the motor and refresh the lot.
Year vehicle made: 2015
Vehicle: 530d
Mileage: 136k
Number of Turbos: 1
Stock or mapped: mapped
Oil consumption: 1L / 1000 miles
Servicing; 6,000 miles - Motul X-Cess 5-40
It's more likely your second piston rings are bound up, which is very common on the N47 & 57. You can of course hoik the injectors out and stick a borescope down there to check but scored bores would kill your compression, power would be way down and it would idle pretty roughly. Most, if not all oil guzzling N57 owners don't notice anything. No smoke, no reduction in power or smoothness, which suggests the top piston rings are sealing properly.
There is a tool to measure chain slack available.
N57 f11- 530D 2011.
Had oil pump fail at 150k spun a bearing cylinder 3. Bent the crank. Had a rebuild done. Chains were in good nick. Still replaced it all anyway. Now service oil at 6k and up to 280k. Still drives like new dpf clean as a whistle.
The guy at BMW parts said there was a problem with the oil pump but BMW have not addressed the issue nor has there been part number change
Had oil pump fail at 150k spun a bearing cylinder 3. Bent the crank. Had a rebuild done. Chains were in good nick. Still replaced it all anyway. Now service oil at 6k and up to 280k. Still drives like new dpf clean as a whistle.
The guy at BMW parts said there was a problem with the oil pump but BMW have not addressed the issue nor has there been part number change
sams255 said:
The guy at BMW parts said there was a problem with the oil pump but BMW have not addressed the issue nor has there been part number change
Only in terms of poor flow at low rpm, but that is common among most German engines these days. The triple turbo N57s have a higher flow oil pump.A pump that 'fails' is isn't common. How did it fail? Something snapped, broke in half? What?
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff