Alpina D3s

[Gib6]

What’s people’s verdicts on values of D3s now they are out of production and BMW now own the name? What’s the safer bet m340d touring or a D3s??

[Collectingbrass]

Gib6 said:

What s people s verdicts on values of D3s now they are out of production and BMW now own the name? What s the safer bet m340d touring or a D3s??

Alpinas are expensive to buy because they are "a limited production vehcile sir, sold to a discerning gentleman such as yourself" and cheap to trade in because "no one wants them really"...

In all seriousness, and I say this on my second Alpina, I doubt the D3s will do anything other than go the way of any Diesel BMW of the same era as I just don't thinkl the demand is there for them as a "classic car" investment vehicle. The end of production run specials and the petrol versions of the 5 series might go up in value, but the D3s are quite plentiful, and the entry model.

Like any car other than a DB5 or something like that, buy it if you want it and if you don't loose too much on it when you come to get rid then happy days.

That said, I had a standard E36 cabriolet and when the insurance scrapped it when its Cat was nicked they paid me the £1500 I had paid for it seven years earlier so cars can stop depreciating

[skylarking808]

If an Alpina D3 is good enough for Chris Harris......

[Night Owl]

Gib6 said:

What s people s verdicts on values of D3s now they are out of production and BMW now own the name? What s the safer bet m340d touring or a D3s??

I think the diesels are always worth less in the long run. B3 or M340i would be my choice, with the B3 probably winning out.

In terms of thriftiness, the B58 gets such good mileage that the difference between it and a diesel would not matter to me. I don't really understand the purpose of the M340d.

[MattOz]

I'm hoping prices remain bouyant!

I've done F30 D3, F31 D3, F31 B3 and now G21 D3S.

The Alpina is just a great car to live with. I was an M Car advcate for years, but following changes to company fuel card rules, I decided to by my first D3. What a fantastic car. It's been Alpina ever since, due to the combination of comfort, speed, style, and that little bit of exclusivity that marks it out as different. They're just a great car to drive, regardless of the lump up front. I clearly have a penchant for the diesel, as it does it all. 90% of the performance for 60% of the fuel cost. If that makes me tight, so be it. I have other petrol vehicles if I need aural excitement.

I think in the current G2* model, the B3 probably outsold the D3S for the first time in the UK. D3S values are strong, and I expect mine has dropped about £5k in the last 2 years and 25k miles. I'm not sure an M340d would have faired as well. How they go in the future is anyone's guess.

[Gib6]

Thanks guys really don’t know which way to go. The car is for my wife who has just recently changed from a Octavia VRS 4x4 to an A5 avant Quattro. Big mistake we both really dislike it and I need out of it and in to another German diesel 4x4 estate. In hindsight we should have kept the Skoda as it ticked all the boxes but hey ho!!

[Fox-]

It is worth remembering that there wasn't that much difference between the D3 and the M340d in terms of price when new, so expecting the sort of difference between the base car and the Alpina that you might normally get probably isn't reasonable. The premium on list price was less than £4000.

Meanwhile the petrol version was some £12,000 more than the M340i and was a far different car as a result.

Edited by Fox- on Tuesday 27th January 12:05

[Collectingbrass]

I think estates are a different matter. For much of the recent Alpina period (F & G series) BMW didn't make a hot estate, so if you want proper M performance in an estate you are really only going to get that in an Alpina. I also think these will hold their values as long as they are looked after as buyers know what they want, and know they can't get it with an M badge on.

[Fox-]

Collectingbrass said:

I think estates are a different matter. For much of the recent Alpina period (F & G series) BMW didn't make a hot estate, so if you want proper M performance in an estate you are really only going to get that in an Alpina. I also think these will hold their values as long as they are looked after as buyers know what they want, and know they can't get it with an M badge on.

The car in question is the D3, it has just 10 horsepower more than the car on which it is based, the M340d, which was also available as an estate. Neither car offers 'proper M Performance'.

It is a different story with the petrol versions, but I think people forget quite how similar the diesels are to the regular cars.

[hulksta]

Fox- said:

It is worth remembering that there wasn't that much difference between the D3 and the M340d in terms of price when new, so expecting the sort of difference between the base car and the Alpina that you might normally get probably isn't reasonable. The premium on list price was less than £4000.

Meanwhile the petrol version was some £12,000 more than the M340i and was a far different car as a result.

Edited by Fox- on Tuesday 27th January 12:05

If you are referring to the G-series B3s, I'm pretty sure it came with either a detuned or different turbo setup S58 (i.e. the M3 engine), so the £12,000 difference between the M340i and a G series B3s is basically a bargain.

[Wills2]

B3 was 12k more than the D3 not 12k more than the M340i so it was 16k more than the m340i (which was the same price as the M340d)

[Fox-]

Wills2 said:

B3 was 12k more than the D3 not 12k more than the M340i so it was 16k more than the m340i (which was the same price as the M340d)

A fair point - either way, it highlights that the B3 is special but the D3 is just a slightly nicer M340d. Which is fine, because it was only slightly more than an M340d.

Personally I think its difficult to make a used D3 make sense unless you are certain that it'll remain residually strong. They are difficult to sell and hard to find and many have strange or poor specifications - they came as standard for example with the basic headlights that BMW UK never offered on any other G20 - even a basic 320i had the upgraded option - and without leather seats (Which are quite nice and were standard on European M340d, but the UK ones got leather as standard). Meanwhile there are dozens and dozens of M340d to choose from all with a much higher base specification.

Despite this, most people will assume a D3 is some sort of super luxury 3 Series with a nicer interior...

A quick look on Autotrader reveals there is currently a single D3 touring for sale. There are 37 M340d with a range of colours and specifications to choose from at considerably less money than the D3.

I think the M Performance cars have filled the position in the market that Alpina used to offer well - softer than an M Power car, but with excellent performance. This is probably why for the first time with the B3 Alpina went for the proper M Power engine. The M340i and M340d already did what the Alpina would traditionally have brought to market in previous generation cars, so they needed something different. The result is that the B3 to me is a proper Alpina - M Power levels of performance but without M Power levels of styling, ride quality..

Edited by Fox- on Wednesday 28th January 10:31

[hulksta]

Wills2 said:

B3 was 12k more than the D3 not 12k more than the M340i so it was 16k more than the m340i (which was the same price as the M340d)

Ah ok.
Still, done a little research, a G series Alpina B3S has an S58 with different turbos for better low end torque.
At this point, it's better to compare with the M3 touring price.
For me it's a win win - Subtle Alpina styling, doesn't have the gopping front end of the M3 (although it has grown on me) and with similar performance to an M3 with more comfort.

[Fox-]

hulksta said:

Ah ok.
Still, done a little research, a G series Alpina B3S has an S58 with different turbos for better low end torque.
At this point, it's better to compare with the M3 touring price.
For me it's a win win - Subtle Alpina styling, doesn't have the gopping front end of the M3 (although it has grown on me) and with similar performance to an M3 with more comfort.

I agree. The B3 is a fantastic car and I'd pick one over an M3.

[Night Owl]

Fox- said:

A fair point - either way, it highlights that the B3 is special but the D3 is just a slightly nicer M340d. Which is fine, because it was only slightly more than an M340d.

Personally I think its difficult to make a used D3 make sense unless you are certain that it'll remain residually strong. They are difficult to sell and hard to find and many have strange or poor specifications - they came as standard for example with the basic headlights that BMW UK never offered on any other G20 - even a basic 320i had the upgraded option - and without leather seats (Which are quite nice and were standard on European M340d, but the UK ones got leather as standard). Meanwhile there are dozens and dozens of M340d to choose from all with a much higher base specification.

Despite this, most people will assume a D3 is some sort of super luxury 3 Series with a nicer interior...

A quick look on Autotrader reveals there is currently a single D3 touring for sale. There are 37 M340d with a range of colours and specifications to choose from at considerably less money than the D3.

I think the M Performance cars have filled the position in the market that Alpina used to offer well - softer than an M Power car, but with excellent performance. This is probably why for the first time with the B3 Alpina went for the proper M Power engine. The M340i and M340d already did what the Alpina would traditionally have brought to market in previous generation cars, so they needed something different. The result is that the B3 to me is a proper Alpina - M Power levels of performance but without M Power levels of styling, ride quality..

Edited by Fox- on Wednesday 28th January 10:31

I disagree about the M-Performance cars filling the Alpina niche. Many Alpinas are directly comparable to the full on M products; they are just more comfortable and more bespoke. There is a great documentary on Alpina floating around on Youtube that shows the lengths they went to to improve the series models. No comparision with an M-Performance.

M-Performance products for me remain little more than M-Sports with more badging. It was just a way for BMW to better market the old top series models like the 340i.

[Wills2]

hulksta said:

Wills2 said:

B3 was 12k more than the D3 not 12k more than the M340i so it was 16k more than the m340i (which was the same price as the M340d)

Ah ok.
Still, done a little research, a G series Alpina B3S has an S58 with different turbos for better low end torque.
At this point, it's better to compare with the M3 touring price.
For me it's a win win - Subtle Alpina styling, doesn't have the gopping front end of the M3 (although it has grown on me) and with similar performance to an M3 with more comfort.

Yes I would prefer the B3/S touring to the M3 touring every time, I had the S58 in my X3M I didn't find it an amazing engine compared to other M cars I'd had so the Alpina work over probably helped in that regard.

[Wills2]

Night Owl said:

I disagree about the M-Performance cars filling the Alpina niche. Many Alpinas are directly comparable to the full on M products; they are just more comfortable and more bespoke. There is a great documentary on Alpina floating around on Youtube that shows the lengths they went to to improve the series models. No comparision with an M-Performance.

M-Performance products for me remain little more than M-Sports with more badging. It was just a way for BMW to better market the old top series models like the 340i.

Alpina's are not more bespoke than the M cars and share more with the cooking models than the M version does.

[Fox-]

Night Owl said:

Many Alpinas are directly comparable to the full on M products;

But not the diesels, which is what this thread is about. There is zero comparison to a full on M product when you're talking about an Alpina D3. It is an M340d with 10 more horsepower, a load of standard equipment missing and some other changes. By contrast, with the B3 the entire engine goes in the bin and in goes the engine from an M3.

Night Owl said:

they are just more comfortable and more bespoke. There is a great documentary on Alpina floating around on Youtube that shows the lengths they went to to improve the series models. No comparision with an M-Performance.

Petrol ones, sure. Diesel ones though? I bet that documentary isn't about a G20 Alpina D3!

None of this is a criticism to Alpina - they didn't charge much more than an M340d for a D3. But as a result you can't expect it to be a different car. The B3 is a different car entirely to the M340i and the price premium reflected that.

This has been going on since about 2007 with the original D3. Which was a slightly more powerful 320d with no climate control, which isn't exactly what you think of when Alpina is mentioned is it?

Edited by Fox- on Thursday 29th January 11:35

[Night Owl]

Wills2 said:

Alpina's are not more bespoke than the M cars and share more with the cooking models than the M version does.

Not sure about that. Many Alpinas receive extensive changes to the suspension, brakes, and engine. Then, of course, you have all of the interior work. If you have never read up on Alpina or seen what they did at the shop, you might be surprised.

[Fox-]

Night Owl said:

Then, of course, you have all of the interior work.

I can't think of any interior work that takes place in the diesel. The graphics are blue on the instrument cluster, but otherwise its a standard entry level 3 Series interior complete with the non leather sport seats. Which are good seats, but they're the same ones as you get in a current 320i M Sport.

I am convinced people don't realise that not all Alpina are equal and just assume (reasonably, because I always did too until I looked more closely at the diesels) they all get the luxury treatment.