Discussion
The biggest issue is the importer situation. They were brought in as part of the KTM group up until very recently, now with Quadzilla, but supply of bikes has been very poor. The 450 MT is superb in my opinion and the new 800mtx is reviewing very well as well. Sort out the importer/dealer set up and they'll have it cracked
Their issue for me is longevity - how are their bikes going to hold up over say 3-5 years, whats the depreciation going to be for a new owner that has one on PCP for instance?
Time will tell, their bikes look alright - they appear to be going in the right direction but if you watch the 44teeth review of their triple - it was caked in grease near the front brakes!
Time will tell, their bikes look alright - they appear to be going in the right direction but if you watch the 44teeth review of their triple - it was caked in grease near the front brakes!
I have no personal experience, but there does seem to be a good chance that CFMoto (and Kove and Voge) will change the image of Chinese bikes. I'd suggest that they are where Enfield was 6 or 7 years ago, and we know how that went.
CFMoto and Voge are sold through the MotoGB dealer network, which is like a motorcycle equivalent of Spar corner shops. Hopefully the individual dealers survive and these apparently "better" brands can demonstrate proper long term reliability and support.
Biggest question at the moment is the new CFMoto importer. KTM's problems screwed up availability, and they've been replaced by Quadzilla, the importer of CFMoto quads and formerly involved in the motorcycle market as WK, I believe.
CFMoto and Voge are sold through the MotoGB dealer network, which is like a motorcycle equivalent of Spar corner shops. Hopefully the individual dealers survive and these apparently "better" brands can demonstrate proper long term reliability and support.
Biggest question at the moment is the new CFMoto importer. KTM's problems screwed up availability, and they've been replaced by Quadzilla, the importer of CFMoto quads and formerly involved in the motorcycle market as WK, I believe.
Neal H said:
I wonder if over the next decade Chinese bikes will take over the market in much the same way as Japanese bikes did in the 1970's. It's probably the reason why Honda are now launching new models at incredibly competitive prices.
Manufacturing almost always follows the cheap labour, Japan managed to keep their costs down with automation for years but costs are still rising and the Japanese worker has become too expensive so China and it's cheap workers will be the next manufacturing powerhouse. You could write an economics PHD on the movement of manufacturing based on cheap labour but the giveaway for me was when I saw 'Engineered in Japan, manufactured in Korea' on the side of a hi-fi box a twenty odd years back
Tango13 said:
Neal H said:
I wonder if over the next decade Chinese bikes will take over the market in much the same way as Japanese bikes did in the 1970's. It's probably the reason why Honda are now launching new models at incredibly competitive prices.
Manufacturing almost always follows the cheap labour, Japan managed to keep their costs down with automation for years but costs are still rising and the Japanese worker has become too expensive so China and it's cheap workers will be the next manufacturing powerhouse. You could write an economics PHD on the movement of manufacturing based on cheap labour but the giveaway for me was when I saw 'Engineered in Japan, manufactured in Korea' on the side of a hi-fi box a twenty odd years back
Given the high amount of automation and modern manufacturing techniques, labour is simply "assembly" and is more fungible as you say.
Which is why I think a big difference between now, than when the Japanese entered the market, is that labour skills/quality was a huge element of if a bike was good or bad. Now the design element is a bigger factor, both on the actual bike, but also the manufacturing. The actual assembly can take place anywhere that provides cheap energy and good transport links!
The Japanese and European manufacturers have been moving assembly to either the Far East or India, particularly smaller capacity, for quite a few years. Both because of the energy and labour costs, but also that's where they sell more of them!
The real positive is that competition is a good think IMHO, it will force the incumbents to innovate to stay competitive, equally the Chinese/Indians bringing good bikes into the market will mean a greater supply and diversity of bikes for us all to ride!
acricha3 said:
Tango13 said:
Neal H said:
I wonder if over the next decade Chinese bikes will take over the market in much the same way as Japanese bikes did in the 1970's. It's probably the reason why Honda are now launching new models at incredibly competitive prices.
Manufacturing almost always follows the cheap labour, Japan managed to keep their costs down with automation for years but costs are still rising and the Japanese worker has become too expensive so China and it's cheap workers will be the next manufacturing powerhouse. You could write an economics PHD on the movement of manufacturing based on cheap labour but the giveaway for me was when I saw 'Engineered in Japan, manufactured in Korea' on the side of a hi-fi box a twenty odd years back
Given the high amount of automation and modern manufacturing techniques, labour is simply "assembly" and is more fungible as you say.
Which is why I think a big difference between now, than when the Japanese entered the market, is that labour skills/quality was a huge element of if a bike was good or bad. Now the design element is a bigger factor, both on the actual bike, but also the manufacturing. The actual assembly can take place anywhere that provides cheap energy and good transport links!
The Japanese and European manufacturers have been moving assembly to either the Far East or India, particularly smaller capacity, for quite a few years. Both because of the energy and labour costs, but also that's where they sell more of them!
The real positive is that competition is a good think IMHO, it will force the incumbents to innovate to stay competitive, equally the Chinese/Indians bringing good bikes into the market will mean a greater supply and diversity of bikes for us all to ride!
It will be interesting to see if trumps removal of environmental protection has an effect on American manufacturing. I doubt it will as it's too little too late combined with a general 'f
k you' attitude to American products caused by trumps tariff stupidity Acorn1 said:
Zontes do actually look alright - i seen a bloke out on one a couple of years ago and he was delighted with it, keyless everything - all the accessories etc it was a bit of a mt07 rip off but it DID actually look quite nice! s1dew1nd3r said:
Acorn1 said:
Zontes do actually look alright - i seen a bloke out on one a couple of years ago and he was delighted with it, keyless everything - all the accessories etc it was a bit of a mt07 rip off but it DID actually look quite nice! https://youtu.be/xgNu8-sAchM?si=0rMygtK3kxV3tN4M
I went on a road trip with my brother to Belgium/Luxembourg a couple of months ago. He was on his CFMoto 650 MT. The last of the "previous gen" bikes I think. It was very good, yes the tank decorations are stickers rather than paint, but I think he paid less than 5k for it brand new. All the important bits seemed to work just fine.
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