Fork Spring change
Discussion
I want to get the front suspension on my 1050XT sorted out. I've had a Nitron R1 ADV on the back for a while now and the front is showing a need for something plus it could do with a fork oil change.
Main issues are a lot of brake dive and it just feels a bit wallowy - preload adjustment doesn't really help.
The problem is the only stuff that seems to be available as a direct replacement are linear springs (Hyperpro and I think Hagon) which I've found to be a bit weak still - I'm roughly 115kg in riding gear.
I'm tempted to try a set of Racetech linear rate springs but will need to muck about with spacers and oil levels (they're about 10/15mm shorter than the oem/hyperpro/hagon springs).
Any ideas as to whether it's worth it going for the linear ones and having the spacers etc adjusted?
As I understand it I'll need to put in LESS fork oil to allow for the change?
I've serviced/modified forks before but any opinions on which of the two ways to go are welcome!
Main issues are a lot of brake dive and it just feels a bit wallowy - preload adjustment doesn't really help.
The problem is the only stuff that seems to be available as a direct replacement are linear springs (Hyperpro and I think Hagon) which I've found to be a bit weak still - I'm roughly 115kg in riding gear.
I'm tempted to try a set of Racetech linear rate springs but will need to muck about with spacers and oil levels (they're about 10/15mm shorter than the oem/hyperpro/hagon springs).
Any ideas as to whether it's worth it going for the linear ones and having the spacers etc adjusted?
As I understand it I'll need to put in LESS fork oil to allow for the change?
I've serviced/modified forks before but any opinions on which of the two ways to go are welcome!
The most important thing is to get springs rated for your weight. If not, you're wasting your time and money.
Although the suppliers might not list springs specifically for your bike, the actual dimensions of springs doesn't differ too much so with a bit of research you'll likely find a set of the correct springs or progressive springs to suit.
Depending on the mileage, look at replacing the fork bushings and seals.
Oil can be played with, weight, level etc, to tune the forks to your preference. For example, a smaller airgap(more oil) helps the fork support deeper in the stroke as the air acts as a spring so less air makes a harder fork at fuller compression points.
Although the suppliers might not list springs specifically for your bike, the actual dimensions of springs doesn't differ too much so with a bit of research you'll likely find a set of the correct springs or progressive springs to suit.
Depending on the mileage, look at replacing the fork bushings and seals.
Oil can be played with, weight, level etc, to tune the forks to your preference. For example, a smaller airgap(more oil) helps the fork support deeper in the stroke as the air acts as a spring so less air makes a harder fork at fuller compression points.
I’d have a chat to a professional like https://ttechsuspension.com/ and let them do the work.
If you are taking the forks out yourself anyway the extra to get a pro to do the work is well worth it.
If you are taking the forks out yourself anyway the extra to get a pro to do the work is well worth it.
Best value I ever got from spending money on bike suspension was buying a copy of Racetech's Suspension Manual.
How old is the bike, has it done many miles?
There is often a lot to be said for understanding how your bike has deviated from standard through wear etc, as a baseline for any changes.
How old is the bike, has it done many miles?
There is often a lot to be said for understanding how your bike has deviated from standard through wear etc, as a baseline for any changes.
OutInTheShed said:
Best value I ever got from spending money on bike suspension was buying a copy of Racetech's Suspension Manual.
How old is the bike, has it done many miles?
There is often a lot to be said for understanding how your bike has deviated from standard through wear etc, as a baseline for any changes.
About 5 years old and 22k. It is no doubt overdue for a fork oil change but with my weight the oem springs just aren't good enough.How old is the bike, has it done many miles?
There is often a lot to be said for understanding how your bike has deviated from standard through wear etc, as a baseline for any changes.
Although your weight might be above average, the bike, as standard, should cope reasonably with pillions and luggage, plus the bike itself is not superlight.
So your extra mass is not a huge variation from the design envelope.
You could try measuring the current spring for free length and rate, in case they have weakened or been messed with by a previous owner.
What you may really be saying is that you want firm suspension and a road biased ride, not long travel dirt track suspension.
What change in kg/mm terms are you looking at?
The bike with undernourished rider is probably only a few % lighter than with you on it, are you looking for a bigger % change in its behavior, which perhaps ought to be coming from damping or progressive rate from oil levels etc?
Have you adjusted the damping at all? Are you sure that the damping adjustment actually works?
How much is the damping likely to be affected by e.g. worn bushes?
Do you notice the behaviour change from cold as it warms up during a ride?
I doubt you are the only big bloke with one of these bikes, model specific knowledge is always valuable, most things have been tried before.
New oil is a good idea, but that opens a question about 'what oil?'
So your extra mass is not a huge variation from the design envelope.
You could try measuring the current spring for free length and rate, in case they have weakened or been messed with by a previous owner.
What you may really be saying is that you want firm suspension and a road biased ride, not long travel dirt track suspension.
What change in kg/mm terms are you looking at?
The bike with undernourished rider is probably only a few % lighter than with you on it, are you looking for a bigger % change in its behavior, which perhaps ought to be coming from damping or progressive rate from oil levels etc?
Have you adjusted the damping at all? Are you sure that the damping adjustment actually works?
How much is the damping likely to be affected by e.g. worn bushes?
Do you notice the behaviour change from cold as it warms up during a ride?
I doubt you are the only big bloke with one of these bikes, model specific knowledge is always valuable, most things have been tried before.
New oil is a good idea, but that opens a question about 'what oil?'
OutInTheShed said:
Although your weight might be above average, the bike, as standard, should cope reasonably with pillions and luggage, plus the bike itself is not superlight.
So your extra mass is not a huge variation from the design envelope.
You could try measuring the current spring for free length and rate, in case they have weakened or been messed with by a previous owner.
What you may really be saying is that you want firm suspension and a road biased ride, not long travel dirt track suspension.
What change in kg/mm terms are you looking at?
The bike with undernourished rider is probably only a few % lighter than with you on it, are you looking for a bigger % change in its behavior, which perhaps ought to be coming from damping or progressive rate from oil levels etc?
Have you adjusted the damping at all? Are you sure that the damping adjustment actually works?
How much is the damping likely to be affected by e.g. worn bushes?
Do you notice the behaviour change from cold as it warms up during a ride?
I doubt you are the only big bloke with one of these bikes, model specific knowledge is always valuable, most things have been tried before.
New oil is a good idea, but that opens a question about 'what oil?'
I think it's because I'm more used to stuff with fairly beefy springs. So your extra mass is not a huge variation from the design envelope.
You could try measuring the current spring for free length and rate, in case they have weakened or been messed with by a previous owner.
What you may really be saying is that you want firm suspension and a road biased ride, not long travel dirt track suspension.
What change in kg/mm terms are you looking at?
The bike with undernourished rider is probably only a few % lighter than with you on it, are you looking for a bigger % change in its behavior, which perhaps ought to be coming from damping or progressive rate from oil levels etc?
Have you adjusted the damping at all? Are you sure that the damping adjustment actually works?
How much is the damping likely to be affected by e.g. worn bushes?
Do you notice the behaviour change from cold as it warms up during a ride?
I doubt you are the only big bloke with one of these bikes, model specific knowledge is always valuable, most things have been tried before.
New oil is a good idea, but that opens a question about 'what oil?'
When I got it, yeah it was OK - but despite adjustment the shock would wallow quite a bit so that was changed out quickly.
Bike only had 2k on it when I bought it.
Yeah, played about with the (fully adjustable) forks a fair bit. You can notice a difference in behaviour but it still doesn't get it to where I want it to be.
Annoyingly, VERY few people seem to have written anything about suspension upgrades on these. The general consensus is that the forks are fairly soft but I guess considering the sterotypical strom rider not many of them even adjust anything - let alone upgrade.
Biker9090 said:
Yeah, played about with the (fully adjustable) forks a fair bit. You can notice a difference in behaviour but it still doesn't get it to where I want it to be.
Annoyingly, VERY few people seem to have written anything about suspension upgrades on these. The general consensus is that the forks are fairly soft but I guess considering the sterotypical strom rider not many of them even adjust anything - let alone upgrade.
Almost no riders will adjust their suspension.Annoyingly, VERY few people seem to have written anything about suspension upgrades on these. The general consensus is that the forks are fairly soft but I guess considering the sterotypical strom rider not many of them even adjust anything - let alone upgrade.
I've ridden some fairly decent motorbikes (and mountain bikes) with very adjustable suspension that have been (not)setup like wallowy pogo sticks or riding on the bump stops.
The answer from the owner is typically long the lines of, "I didn't want to change it from what came from the factory, refuse they know what it should be". Er, no.
The very first thing is to have springs that are the correct rate for the typical usage, giving the correct sag and not bottoming out, in normal riding.
I'm around 80Kg (so quite light for a Brit nowadays) and have changed the springs on various bikes for stiffer ones.
Setting the damping is important too. As above, oil weight can make a difference.
It is not difficult to make the changes and do the setup DIY if you have tools.
Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 24th July 10:48
I would be wondering whether the damping is adequate and whether a stiffer spring will make more demands on it.
I found the Racetech book very interesting and helpful to understand what all those shims and stuff are about.
Also a lot of discussion regarding mountain bike forks takes you back to fundamentals.
Ultimately, a lot comes down to personal taste and what conditions you are trying to cater for, you will always find a bigger bump if your forks are on the soft side, or a nasty series of ripples if they are firm.
Multiple adjustments often give people a lot of scope for messing up a good compromise that the factory put some effort into.
You can buy springs of various ratings from industrial suppliers and have them cut to length if that helps?
There isn't really a right answer to this sort of thing because we're all different. I have a Tiger Sport 1050, which is widely regarded on forums as having fork springs that are a bit too weak (and I'm probably 125kg in riding gear and heavy top box), and consequently the damping has to be set quite stiffly because otherwise the forks bottom out when you hit a bump.
My solution was some Hyperpro progressive springs and to soften the damping off - the springs are weaker than standard in the early part of travel, but after that first inch or so they become stronger. It means the ride is more comfortable when simply riding along, because the forks are more able to deal with minor imperfections, but when you hit a bigger bump, even with the slightly softer damping, it still doesn't bottom out. My riding is almost all commuting so I'm not too interested in how it feels around the track or even at 9/10ths on the road, but equally I didn't want a bouncy ride which is what you get with just slackening off the damping on linear, and too weak springs.
Probably not explained very well, but for about £150 and two or three satisfying hours in the garage (including new fork seals), and then a few rides up and down a road I know well and tweaking the settings on the damping, the bike ended up noticeably nicer to ride.
My solution was some Hyperpro progressive springs and to soften the damping off - the springs are weaker than standard in the early part of travel, but after that first inch or so they become stronger. It means the ride is more comfortable when simply riding along, because the forks are more able to deal with minor imperfections, but when you hit a bigger bump, even with the slightly softer damping, it still doesn't bottom out. My riding is almost all commuting so I'm not too interested in how it feels around the track or even at 9/10ths on the road, but equally I didn't want a bouncy ride which is what you get with just slackening off the damping on linear, and too weak springs.
Probably not explained very well, but for about £150 and two or three satisfying hours in the garage (including new fork seals), and then a few rides up and down a road I know well and tweaking the settings on the damping, the bike ended up noticeably nicer to ride.
Got around to doing this semi successful at the weekend.
Only issue is that the included spacers weren't really suitable. Obviously I cut them to the right length but they don't have any way of being centred (instructions warn about this).
Am I right in thinking that something like k tech spacer washers could be put in betwen the oem plastic soacer and the top of the fork spring - so the oem stepped part goes through the washers thus centering them?
Only issue is that the included spacers weren't really suitable. Obviously I cut them to the right length but they don't have any way of being centred (instructions warn about this).
Am I right in thinking that something like k tech spacer washers could be put in betwen the oem plastic soacer and the top of the fork spring - so the oem stepped part goes through the washers thus centering them?
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